BREXIT

We're through the looking glass now. All sorts of possibilities and uncertainties for the UK, none of which have any precedent except for complete political independence once more. But first on the agenda is a vote of no confidence in the govt. which I think it will win as the DUP hate Jeremy Corbyn and would do anything to keep him out of power. But after that, who knows what the future will be. I wonder what the political dynamos of Queenzone think?

They need to just get on with it, before I forget my name.

I have watched a lot of live coverage from the House of Commons lately (what is the difference between "honourable friend" and "right honourable friend"??) and I must say it makes my head spin. Apparently, these days everybody makes up their own reality but when a country has to depend on the wisdom and common sense of a parliament I feel desperate for the United Kingdom. Nobody deserves such incompetence, even when they voted for leaving the biggest European project in history thinking they are so much better off without it. At this point one can only hope this terrible farce ends on March 29th and people have a chance to rebuild their country and the EU has the chance to count their losses (which will be big) and move on.

If the ignorant people had all the facts in the first place we would have voted REMAIN.

I'm not saying that ALL Leavers are ignorant. Some have very good cases to make.

But the day after the referendum a woman in our local pub said to me "People are very angry about the outcome aren't they?".

I said, "I'm not surprised".

She said, "Well we had to do something about all these Somalians".

Sadly a lot of people in this country have the same zero level of knowledge of political issues.

Such an important issue should never have been offered as a public vote.

It only happened because Conservative leader Cameron was on the ropes within his own party due to the ascendancy of UKIP and their leader Farage.

Cameron mis-judged the appeal of a populist like Farage and his ability to press the buttons of a lot of, frankly, stupid, easily led people.

[QUOTE] [b]splicksplack wrote:[/b]

If the ignorant people had all the facts in the first place we would have voted REMAIN.[/QUOTE]

Yep. The day after the Brexit vote, the most googled phrase was "what is the EU".

Because the people started to realize that they'd fallen for nationalist propaganda.

Shame on them for not even knowing what the EU was to begin with, and understanding its necessity after centuries of conflict. But you can't blame opportunist right wing politicians for wanting to exploit ignorance for personal gain - it's what they do best.

I was told that a lot of people outside the city of London felt invaded by the immigrants and so they voted for exit. When I said this to a British lady, she said that Britain could have dealt with the immigration issue the same way they had their own currency instead of having Euros.

That means the politicians did not fully understand the ground feelings.

[QUOTE] [b]tcc wrote:[/b]

That means the politicians did not fully understand the ground feelings.[/QUOTE]

And that is precisely the problem - that feelings have overtaken facts. The facts say that with extremely rare (and usually short term) exceptions, immigration does not increase crime in any region of the world. But we're in a post-fact world now, where it's all about feelings.

Of course politicians could point to the facts. They know what the facts are. But it's easier for them to exploit fears than to change people's minds.

This is an excellent article on the subject:

http://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/sep/08/high-anxiety-how-feelings-took-over-the-world

And the comments below the line are actually an excellent discussion well worth dipping into.

http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/1/22/18177076/social-media-facebook-far-right-authoritarian-populism


"Far-right parties demonize out-groups, whether racial minorities, immigrants, or even (in Duterte’s case) drug users. Their arguments center on making these groups look scary and dangerous, and ginning up fear and hatred targeting them.

The ease with which rumors and false information can be spread on social media, and the intrinsic difficulty in debunking these ideas once they’re out there, makes them ideal platforms to spread demagogic messages. You can abuse social media to demonize out-groups, but it’s much harder to do so to improve their images with the public. A study in Germany found that, all other things being equal, areas with higher rates of Facebook use saw higher rates of hate crimes targeting immigrants.

Pro-democracy politicians are much less likely to benefit from these kinds of illiberal messages. Their core supporters are much more likely to hold basic democratic commitments to equality and freedom, and thus they will lose rather than win support by stoking prejudice. The more anger there is out there, the better off anti-democratic forces are."


This is literally what Brexit was all about. And it's since spread to the US, Austria, Mexico, and parts of Canada. And it's not going away any time soon.

"Yep. The day after the Brexit vote, the most googled phrase was "what is the EU". "



From the article below, "In the month before the referendum "What is the EU" was searched an average of 261 times a day in Britain, according to Google AdWords. That means if searches increased by 250 per cent, as Google announced on Friday, there were still fewer than 1,000 or so people typing the question into the search engine."

Considering there's over 66 million people in the UK, it was a very tiny number.

Here's the full article about that: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2016/06/27/were-brits-really-googling-what-is-the-eu-after-voting-to-leave/

"I was told that a lot of people outside the city of London felt invaded by the immigrants and so they voted for exit. When I said this to a British lady, she said that Britain could have dealt with the immigration issue the same way they had their own currency instead of having Euros.

That means the politicians did not fully understand the ground feelings."


She was wrong about that. There's no way in a million years the EU would budge on free movement.

Most of those searches would have probably been from school kids doing homework.

We need to leave and the EU needs to be put out of its misery so countries can go back to simply trading with each other. Simple as.

So, did the complaints against the EU by the UK citizens begin before the migrant crisis?

Are other countries considering an exit?

I’ve read a little bit about the EU but it is a little over my head. I don’t understand the economics of it. It seems very complicated.

Why would the UK or any country enter into any arrangement that was so difficult (impossible?) to get out of?

[QUOTE] [b]Donna13 wrote:[/b]

Why would the UK or any country enter into any arrangement that was so difficult (impossible?) to get out of?[/QUOTE]

Unfortunately since we voted to leave the whole narrative of Brexit has been dominated by remainers with their project fear etc.

Also the Brexit negotiations are being handled by those who don't want to leave the EU. Namely Theresa May and her cronies with her 'deal' which is a million miles from what the people actually voted for.

Basically the majority of the people voted to leave the EU but the majority of members of parliament don't want to. Therein lies the problem.

And yes other countries will line up to leave. The EU elite are terrified of this and are making things as difficult for us as possible as a deterrant.

If Theresa May was in favor of Brexit, it wouldn’t necessarily help her negotiate with the EU. Are you saying that she purposely negotiated a bad deal?