As it began ' or any other books

Nice job with the quotes, Katyd! And thank you Wizard....I finally decided to open this on my laptop and I can see the options to the right of the post now. They do not show up on my ipad no matter how you try it, I suppose the lack of a cursor is the problem. Darn Steve Jobs! ; )

I do agree with Ratty's exaggeration, I am with you on the explanation of the Scrabble....another that came to mind as I was reading was the story of Freddie meeting Sid Vicious in the studio....I've heard many different accounts of that and they all say Freddie called him Simon Ferocious (or similar) and got the better of him. Ratty says Freddie grabbed Sid by the collar and threw him out. I don't recall anyone else saying that Freddie got physical with Sid like that. Even in Freddie's own account of it in Brook's book "In His Own Words" Freddie doesn't talk about throwing him out.

I think Hince is actually quite funny, I enjoy the sarcasm for the most part. I almost wonder if Hince didn't have more of a homophobic look at life when he was a roadie, due to the times, really. Back then it really would have been something different for the relatively "macho" roadie type of guy to be accepting of a gay man. But it seems like through working with Freddie he probably gained a respect and liking for him, and in the years since Hince has become more accepting. I suppose it's hard to write an accounting of those times from today's perspective, maybe? I don't feel like I'm describing it very well. Forgive my rambling!

I am through the chapter that you had mentioned Katy...so if you want to discuss it we can. I am wondering if the exaggeration is at work in that tale?

I forgot to mention that I was wondering if the exaggeration was one of the things that caused Brian to be irritated with Ratty? I remember hearing that Brian was pretty upset with Ratty for things he had said, but I did not hear directly what Brian said specifically. If anyone has any references as to what Brian said I would love a link.

Mhz, I think Ratty as with many men of those times didnt see gay men as their equal which is crazy to me to think about now . Because I think men are men to me I'm glad I dont see the world through a one sided glass.Every man to me puts his Jean's on the same way as any other man.But yes he might be a bit homophobic you would be surprised how many people are even today.Many of them have gay friends.Im sure Brian And Roger covered Freddie's sexuality alot as well through the years like Brian telling the media their were girls in Freddie's hotel room well if there were they must of been playing scrabble it sure wasnt spin the bottle.So I think Rattys tall tales pissed them off they loved Freddie.I will go as far to say on the road most of the time I bet most of his company in his hotel room was hot and male.Good for him the man made people smile for a living why couldnt he have a few minutes of pleasure for himself and why should it matter who gave it to him.Thats what all these different books have eventually talk about is who he slept with I just think he thought he gave the world his talent why should he give them his privacy.Rattys stories are something else though.

I have 2 gay Male friends and from what I understand they like everything about the Male body.They liked to look at other males spend their time with other males not females.So in Freddie's down time I bet Ratty not being into Freddie's scene wouldnt hang out with him too much even though he was a guy.i dont think Freddie spent time with the boys in the band outside music they had different interest.Could you see Brian going in a all guy bar.He would be up against the wall .I was watching a tour of theirs and Freddie was down on his knees and trying to kiss Brian's Guaitar and Brian jumped back quickly and didnt miss a beat.I think he got scared Freddie was trying to go down below lol.

MHZ, I too saw the difference in the Sid Vicious stories and attributed it to Ratty's apparent habit of embellishment. I think the same thing happens on page 193 where he talks about the recording of CLTCL. According to Ratty after writing the song, Freddie rushed to the studio and immediately called the band together to record the song. Ok, well I've always heard that Freddie did rush to the studio, but worked alone with Mack because he wanted to get the ideas down before Brian got there and began to mess with things. Roger and John then heard it, liked it, and Brian was left to accept it the way it was. We've talked about altered memories before on this thread. (I think) As time passes people tend to remember things differently. Even people who were at the same event will see it differently. I don't think Ratty's playing with the facts as we think we know them is exactly a negative. It does make me question some of his stories, but in the end, he really IS a great storyteller. I like him too and I appreciate his sense of humor.

As for Brian and Ratty, I did some Googling this morning and can find nothing definitive, only opinions from fans. Brian can be a polarizing figure on these forums so I tend to take most everything said about him with a grain of salt. I would be interested in seeing a factual source too.

I understood what you were saying about Hince's experiences with Freddie. I suspect that Freddie was possibly the first gay man Ratty really got to know. I always find it interesting when people say they don't know any one who is gay. I want to say "of course you do, you just don't know it". I think that might have applied to the tough street kid Ratty tends to portray himself as, he simply didn't know he knew any gay people. It's so obvious in the book that he came to care deeply for Freddie, and I have to hope it opened his horizons. I'm being careful here because I know this is a possible hot button topic for people.

The Indianapolis concert, page 153. I spent some time looking for the Indianapolis concert on YouTube but couldn't find what I was looking for. Since I currently have time on my hands, I may play around with that again later and also with some of the Queen concert sites. I have seen videos of concerts where Freddie is very destructive, using the mic almost as a sledge hammer, pushing speakers over, etc. I don't know if that footage is all from one concert or if it occurred more than once. I've never been a fan of musicians destroying equipment. But what I found disturbing is that Ratty says that not only did Freddie use his mic to pound the offending pyro equipment, but also to physically pound Ratty. We all know Freddie had a temper, and I understand and accept that. But I have trouble with physical assault. In the story, Ratty says Freddie tried to deny that contact when they were all called to Gerry Stickells office, causing Ratty to walk out. Other roadies banded with him, all planning to quit. Apparently Brian and Roger tried to smooth things over to no avail. Even Paul Prenter tried to beg/bribe Ratty to stay.. In the end it blew over because they had a few days off and were able to cool down emotions. But here's the second somewhat disturbing thing for me. Ratty says Freddie came to the next sound check, unusual for him at that time, and apologized to all involved, EXCEPT Ratty. Personally I think Ratty should have been the first person approached. Freddie did "apologize" to him in the form of funny comments, winks, etc but I find that type of apology almost cowardly. This brings me to thinking about how Freddie avoided conflict and often had others do his dirty work. Does the fact that he never personally approached Ratty mean that maybe Ratty was more important to him than the others? Was he more ashamed of his own actions in this case? I think he knew he needed Ratty. Was he afraid that Ratty might be the one person who would not forgive him? I do think there is some insecurity in Freddie, and being unable to apologize to this man who was so important to his onstage success might be an example of that. Thoughts?

I hope you can see this link. It's very short, but shows some on-stage mic issues. You don't get to see much of Freddie's face, but even in these quick glimpses, you can see the annoyance. I wouldn't want to have been Ratty or the sound techs after this show.

http://www.instagram.com/p/B896TzlhLh5/?igshid=2o9x1564r34m&fbclid=IwAR1TkRVePJjLvx9bzhxAnBTf346BFgMLw2Ja26AZW12fohnX5r7iAkvf8SQ

I must start by saying that I can’t believe this incident took place at an Indianapolis concert, that is only 2 hours away from me. I would have been too young to go to that one...but it makes me feel bad that Queen had a bad experience in my state!

Your view on this is interesting Katyd, I took it a bit differently. I’m going to go back and read that chapter again after I write this, because I may have read too quickly and not gotten things thoroughly. I know Ratty says that Freddie hit him in his fit about the microphone, and maybe Freddie did. But there were multiple malfunctions of equipment/sound, I thought, enough for Ratty to say that all of the guys trashed stuff...John flung his bass and Roger destroyed his drums. The meeting afterwards in my reading was more focused on all the staff, and them being mad at being treated badly when things weren’t all their fault. I know Ratty says he brought up Freddie hitting him, but I didn’t get that the walkout was in solidarity with Ratty over being hit, it was more at the staff being unhappy with the band in general at their treatment. Maybe I read my own interpretation into it though, which is why I’ll read it again.

My thought on Ratty specifically is this....due to his exaggeration tendency, I think Freddie was beating up the mikes, the speaker, whatever and probably accidentally caught Ratty in the process (it’s dark and Ratty is crouching trying not to be seen by the crowd)...Freddie probably never even knew he made contact with Ratty, which is why Freddie denied it, and subsequently never apologized directly to Ratty for it (if he really even DID make contact with Ratty, I have my doubts on that). My real thought is that maybe Ratty caught a glancing blow, never really mentioned it in the meeting, and made up the winks and nods as Freddie’s “apology”. Although I will say, I do agree with you Katyd, that with Freddie’s avoidance of conflict I can imagine him never directly apologizing if in fact he did hurt someone like that.

So that’s my read...now I’m off to go through that chapter again and to pay close attention! : )

I did a quick search on Queenzone to see about the Brian and Ratty feud...apparently Brian said Ratty’s book was “A warped view by a disgruntled ex roadie” on Twitter. I’ll do some more looking on that subject.

MHZ I won’t be able to get back until later tonight, but wanted to tell you your interpretation was correct. The whole band was destructive, not just Freddie.the meeting afterwards was with the whole staff. I knew that, but didn’t express it well. More later......


I didn’t want you to take the time to reread the chapter when you are correct. Again, more later.....

Mhz, yep I just didnt really ever care for too much he is too much of a drama Queen himself.

Steven, I've read several books on the Civil War and live close to many famous sites I have been able to visit. It's a fascinating time in American History. One really interesting non-fic book I read was Indianapolis. the story of the ship that was sunk resulting in the huge loss of life due to the fact that it was on a secret mission and the survivors weren't found for days. The loss of life was due to shark attacks. My interest in the mission of the Indianapolis first occurred while watching the movie Jaws. : ) I have to admit though that I do prefer fiction because it serves as kind of an escape for me.

MHZ, I remember some of the discussions on QZ about Brian and Ratty and I take those with a grain of salt. I do believe Brian might have been negative but I'd like to see it for myself in a direct quote from Brian.. I've read that Brian doesn't read Queen books so he probably didn't read it, but who knows. I really like Brian so I don't want to go too deeply into this topic because it is a bit of a hot button and I don't want to start anything.

Back to the Indy concert. I'm about two hours east of Indianapolis, and though we lived in this area at the time, I was too busy with young babies at home to be thinking of concerts. I could kick myself now. You have an interesting interpretation of the physical aspect of Freddie's behavior and your impressions could be correct. I'd rather think it was an accident if it happened, but we do know that Freddie was capable of being physical when he was angry. David Minns shares several examples in the Minns/Evans book. Either way, accident or intention, I do think it caused at least a temporary rift between Freddie and Ratty. Ratty states that Freddie asked Ratty in the meeting to lift his shirt and show the marks if he really had hit him. People started walking out, quitting, some band members and others tried to make peace and it took a few days apart to heal the wounds. I think I was approaching the story more from my personal interest in behaviors and their motivations. I took the incident at face value, but I was more interested in the apology aspect of things relating to Freddie's well known avoidance of conflict. I was trying to peel some psychological layers of Freddie's need to avoid difficult situations. Freddie's avoidance of difficult personal situations comes up again on page 304. Are you there yet?

Freddie avoided things to an extent then that little Indian came out ready to rumble anyone agree.He would tell someone to fuckoff in a minute.This avoidance of conflict that authors talk about so much is not such a avoidance of conflict but a Indians way they are gentle passive they are peacemakers.These are the values he was raised with they were apart of him.Think of all the nasty things the media has said about Freddie his mom never once lost her temper and treated any media with disrespect only kindness.

Brian doesnt read Queen books but even better he was part of the band and Ratty was the roadie and I think that will work for me.Brians a pretty level headed guy and loved Freddie dearly but would admit if Freddie was being an ass.Roger wouldnt say much so I would go with Brian without a quote anyday.