Aren't you and I supposed to be asleep Zeni? :-P
And I agree.. it's never worth disowning your own country because your government sucks. I'm proud to be an American because our people are good, and we can't help it if our higher ups make some stupid decisions.
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I don't hate the U.S., I consider myself very lucky to live here. I'm just extremely annoyed right now.
At least the "under god" part, since there should be separation of church and state.
"And I agree.. it's never worth disowning your own country because your government sucks. I'm proud to be an American because our people are good, and we can't help it if our higher ups make some stupid decisions."
Well, I don't HATE the US. There's lots of great stuff about it. I'm rather depressed about the widespread malaise and ignorance these days regarding society as a whole. We have the most inane debates in this country these days...gay marriage, war on terror, broken health system...it's rather ridiculous how many blinders a lot of us are wearing.
Regarding the 'we can't help it if our higher ups...', well, actually, we can. Our government *is* us in this country. We vote. We repeal. We petition. We canvas. We protest. We actually do have a lot of say in what's going on. Unfortunately, less than half of us actually speak up. *sigh*.
Well, I don't HATE the US. There's lots of great stuff about it. I'm rather depressed about the widespread malaise and ignorance these days regarding society as a whole. We have the most inane debates in this country these days...gay marriage, war on terror, broken health system...it's rather ridiculous how many blinders a lot of us are wearing.
Regarding the 'we can't help it if our higher ups...', well, actually, we can. Our government *is* us in this country. We vote. We repeal. We petition. We canvas. We protest. We actually do have a lot of say in what's going on. Unfortunately, less than half of us actually speak up. *sigh*.
The pledge of allegiance is a stupid, fascist thing. Did you know they had to do the same thing in Nazi-Germany? That's EXACTLY what it is, and it should be abolished immediately!
Since you like to throw the word "facism" and its various forms around, Caspar, perhaps you'd actually like to know what it means:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=fascism
Now that we have the definition down, we can start using it properly.
The Pledge is not fascist, nor is it something that occurred solely in the US and Nazi Germany. But by all means, continue to make comparisons between the two countries.
You see, this is what I am constantly annoyed by. There are people who wish to abolish the pledge of allegiance because of ridiculous arguments. One does not lawfully have to recite the pledge of allegiance ever. The pledge of allegiance does no harm whatsoever. It doesn't kill you, it doesn't injure you, it doesn't restrict your rights. Finally, and of course, it does not make facists out of anyone. Go ahead, say that "under God" does not belong in there...say you don't "like" the pledge...don't participate in the pledge...but don't think for a second that it's existence there is detrimental to you in any way.
The pledge of allegiance is a stupid, fascist thing. Did you know they had to do the same thing in Nazi-Germany? That's EXACTLY what it is, and it should be abolished immediately!
Since you like to throw the word "facism" and its various forms around, Caspar, perhaps you'd actually like to know what it means:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=fascism
Now that we have the definition down, we can start using it properly.
The Pledge is not fascist, nor is it something that occurred solely in the US and Nazi Germany. But by all means, continue to make comparisons between the two countries.
I don't think Caspar wanted to refer exactly to 'The Pledge of Allegiance' as fascist, but rather those who want to enforce it.
I think Caspar knows what fascism means, and as many Americans he feels like our government wants to force their people to have certain beliefs, or suffer the consecuences. He has a right to not say the pledge, and his decision should be respected.
Besides there are many Americans today who are ashamed to say the pledge because in some way they fel like pleading allegiance to the Bush administration.
Aren't you and I supposed to be asleep Zeni? :-P
And I agree.. it's never worth disowning your own country because your government sucks. I'm proud to be an American because our people are good, and we can't help it if our higher ups
Who said anything about disowning your country? I think it's rather pathetic that we are the only democratic nation in the world that feels the need to make its citizens pledge allegiance. Not saying the Pledge doesn;t make you unpatriotic. We don't say it at my school.
That's a bit confusing...
I feel that pledging allegiance to a country is, in a way, closing your eyes and doing as you are told (by pledging allegiance you accept whatever the thing/person you pledge allegiance to to be right), which I think is a stupid thing, and I think that people who enforce this are fascist.
I assure you that many, if not most, democracies require some sort of oath when you register to vote. That oath is probably similar to the pledge in that it affirms your allegience to your country (though perhaps in not the same exact wording) and that you promise to abide by the rules/laws of your country. Some places may even require an oath on the more provincial/state level.
Under your argument, Caspar, countries that require an oath/pledge, even if it allows you participate in the most fundamental of all democratic actions (voting) must be fascist.
Hate Bush. Heck, hate the United States. But learn the implications of your words before you use them.