Lacking the time to present something real in depth, Bush has taken a surplus and created record deficits. The tax cuts we've received have been eaten away by state 'fees' such as vehicle registration, toll increases, etc, as well as unrealistic real estate evaluations, increasing our property taxes.
The infrastructure is a shambles, the money wasted in Iraq should be used for homeland improvements and security. Our ports, railways and airways are just as succeptible to terrorist actions as they were before 9/11.
Needed social programs are going by the wayside. 'No Child Left Behind' is an expensive joke. His environmental record is costing us now, and will dearly in the future.
I truly fear his naming any replacements on the Supreme Court. We all should.
btw, Kerry was a prosecutor. Ambulance chasers make good presidents, since half of our presidents studied law or were lawyers.
Bush could have acted moderately, considering he received less votes as his opponent, pushing his issues but finding a common ground. Instead, he's run his radical neocon agenda down our throats in an extreme antagonistic approach. Done so with the world as well.
The actions in Afghanistan were correct. What's going on there now is a shame due to neglect. How in the hell elections can take place there and in Iraq is beyond me.
He's vicious. Was to McCain. Is to any opponent. Flipflops on statements made about topics in 2000, such as gay marriage ammendments being left up to the states, balanced budgets, fighting the creating of a 9/11 commission, then going against its recommendations, then agreeing to it, then changing it, then.....
He's been so willing to shed our blood over in Iraq. Guess that comes from his hardline National Guard days, defending Texas' borders from attacks by Arkansas.
j+III
Thread
Posts in chronological order
Ok, what the hell. I'm bored. I'm pissed of at XP Pro so I need a break.
OK, bull. I'm up for a debate. I'll try and rebutt these and we'll see what we can come up with for a discussion.
"1 - The economy has improved and grown in the face of terrorism."
I'm not sure where you've gotten those statistics. I've seen plenty of statistics lately that show any perceived growth is just that...perceived...not real. Of the jobs that we've gained, a vast majority have been paying less than $13,000 a year.
MDV - as I recall, the GNP has expanded 3 to 4 percent in the last year. Our company has been very busy since October of last year.
"True, there are few new jobs, but that is primarily due to productivity improvements resulting from the "computer revolution"."
Again, where you are getting these stats? There are plenty of stats that would say the opposite...that the lack of new jobs is due to a large amount of outsourcing...especially 'computer' jobs.
MDV - here are your stats: http://www.hrmguide.com/international/productivity.htm
"There are many American companies that have not been affected by imports because they work smarter not harder."
Such as?...
MDV - Urick Foundry (Ridgid Tools), Walker Forge (steel forgings), Applied Process Inc (specialty heat treater)
There are plenty of industries being gutted due to overseas slave labor...lumber, textiles, data entry, etc.
"There is still a niche for American know-how."
But not American hard work? That's my beef with that argument. Leave an elite, wealthy 'brain trust' in the US while outsourcing our labor to slave-conditions overseas, letting the rest here fend for themselves as Wal-Mart cashiers. (OK, that's over dramatized just a tad. ;o)
Urick Foundry is price and quality competative
"2 - Will Kerry will cave into the unions and institute more protectionist trade policies that will result in a global trade war?"
Are you anti-union, bull? If so, then I guess there's no point debating that issue with you.
MDV - Unions suck - our sister company had a drinking problem - the union guys drank their lunch. Of course the union stewards played politics - No matter the jobs are going to Mexico - because we were not price competitive for the railroads. Shoddy workmanship by that union severely hurt our reputation in the late 90's. Unions generally inhibit progress, reduce productivity, raise costs, and lower quality. When our house was built, union workers went on strike because our builder fired a shoddy siding installer. Also, the union workers were too lazy to use an outside port-a-potty - so they pissed in our basement.
"Caving in to terrorists and tyrants is not the answer."
Terrorists? No, of course not. Is kerry proposing we cave in? No. Of course not. Is either candidate proposing ways to solve the problem at the root level? I haven't heard much from Bush on that.
Kerry wants to cave into the tyrants and terrorists in Iraq - he implies he wants out ASAP
Tyrants? We do business with them daily. I know this is a point you disagree with, Bull, but that's what we do. We're a rather fickle country when it comes to business. If it makes us rich, we're OK looking a blind eye once in a while.
Point taken - but what will Kerry do different?
"The job in Iraq needs to be finished."
Well, it'd help if we had a defined job to begin with. We don't. There really is no 'finish' in site. Unless by 'finish' you mean hand over our checking accounts to Haliburton.
Gee - I guess we should just give up and leave Iraq as it is ... ignoring Saddam would have been better.
"Even France's pacivist ways did not prevent kidnapping of their citizens by terrorists."
And our bullying and oppressive dominance has not prevented kidnapping of our citizens by terrorists. Interesting.
"Who nee
Still no rational reply from Jingles.
Don't worry Jingles - Joey will protect you.
Don't worry Jingles - Joey will protect you.
I appreciate my sleep time a lot more than responding to your absurd and ridiculous posts. Besides, you're so narrow minded that discussing things with you is like beating a dead horse. So why wake up the next day and realize I wasted my time discussing things with you. Like I haven't wasted enough time, anyways.
I'm going to tell you what's the problem with you Bullwinkle. You're one of those who don't have the ability to think outside the box, and never consider the true reality of things. It's so easy to support war when is being fought more than 10.000 miles away from you, so you don't have to worry about having your home being destroyed, or your family, relatives, and friends being shot in the crossfire. Do you know what is like to live with the constant fear of death knocking at your door? Of course not!
Bush convinced America to think that Saddam Hussein had WMD (which I need to remind you again was THE MAIN REASON WHY WE WENT TO WAR) and what was found in Iraq... NOTHING! Is America any safer now? The answer is NO, and with this invasion things have gotten a lot worse.
So sit on your couch, relax and watch Iraq being destroyed on the news without having to worry about a thing. Like you give a damn about all the innocent Iraqi citizens who have died or have been seriously injured and have lost everything they had. I would even dare to say that you don't even care about the American soldiers and their families either. Besides, people like you would completely chicken out if by any chance they would be drafted into this war, despite endlessly supporting it. Needless to say I don't think you would ever dare to send their kids into Iraq and sacrifice their lives for a lie.
If not from me, perhaps you should learn something from Joeyjojo and Jgoodm, who as I can see have a lot more brains than you do.
I'm going to tell you what's the problem with you Bullwinkle. You're one of those who don't have the ability to think outside the box, and never consider the true reality of things. It's so easy to support war when is being fought more than 10.000 miles away from you, so you don't have to worry about having your home being destroyed, or your family, relatives, and friends being shot in the crossfire. Do you know what is like to live with the constant fear of death knocking at your door? Of course not!
Bush convinced America to think that Saddam Hussein had WMD (which I need to remind you again was THE MAIN REASON WHY WE WENT TO WAR) and what was found in Iraq... NOTHING! Is America any safer now? The answer is NO, and with this invasion things have gotten a lot worse.
So sit on your couch, relax and watch Iraq being destroyed on the news without having to worry about a thing. Like you give a damn about all the innocent Iraqi citizens who have died or have been seriously injured and have lost everything they had. I would even dare to say that you don't even care about the American soldiers and their families either. Besides, people like you would completely chicken out if by any chance they would be drafted into this war, despite endlessly supporting it. Needless to say I don't think you would ever dare to send their kids into Iraq and sacrifice their lives for a lie.
If not from me, perhaps you should learn something from Joeyjojo and Jgoodm, who as I can see have a lot more brains than you do.
"MDV - as I recall, the GNP has expanded 3 to 4 percent in the last year. Our company has been very busy since October of last year."
That's good, but worker productivity isn't necessarily correlated to unemployment rates, or income levels for folks. It does tend to correlate to the amount of hours worked. Granted, I'm not an economics wiz, so I'm not much of an opponent on this topic.
"- Unions suck - our sister company had a drinking problem - the union guys drank their lunch"
Whoah! You're anti union because you stereotype an entire topic based on your own company? Yeesh.
"Kerry wants to cave into the tyrants and terrorists in Iraq - he implies he wants out ASAP"
As anyone should. That should be the goal of ANY occupation, no? Leave as soon as you can. For the record, I believe Kerry has been saying that it'd take at least a year to pull out.
"Point taken - but what will Kerry do different?"
Very good question. I don't know. I do know he has a hell of a lot less ties to the military industrial complex and the oil industry then the bush/cheney team does. By default, that makes it a safer bet in my book.
And yes, I suppose there's a chance he's going to make wide-sweeping favorable policies regarding the world tomatoe industry. I'll take corrupt tomatoes over corrupt war contracts and oil deeds though. ;o)
" I guess we should just give up and leave Iraq as it is ... ignoring Saddam would have been better."
No matter how many times you say this, Bull, it does not get any more valid as an actual debatable comment. The baby with the bathwater argument is just a last-resort rant. Don't stoop to using it.
"Limit punitive damages for pain and suffering and stop treating the legal system as a lotery system."
It's that simple, eh? Have you ever worked in the judicial system? Our system is a tad more complex than that.
The issue is that you can't set limits. Cases are not the same. Each one is unique. Setting limits favours only one side...typically big business. Of course Bush is for that. He'd rather focus on fining CBS for showing a tit rather than allow citizens of the country to sue over environmental disasters.
"Bush is for Tort reform - that will have a more positive effect on health care cost than "talking about doing something with our healthcare system".'
That's simply not true. Actually, if you had universal health care, the government would actually have a lot more control over liability of the medical practioners.
"What is wrong with drilling for oil in an Arctic wasteland?"
It's a waste of money...the oil reserves up there aren't much.
It's not a wasteland. It's unspoiled wilderness. It's something we're quickly running out of on this planet of ours.
Finally, sooner or later, we need to figure out ways to stop suckling the teat of oil. Money would be much better spent on figuring that out than destroying pristine wildlife habitat.
"The tree huggers (oops no trees up there) are pretty wacky and do not live in a real world."
There's a massive gap between eco-terrorists and George Bush. Kerry is in there, as are most environmentalists and sane folks. Think long-term here, Bull...the planet isn't just yours and mine.
And Bull, Jingles makes very valid points (at least in his last post).
It's not really an issue of being for or against the war. It's about being for or against the methods that GW uses on the citizens of this country to convince us that he's 'right'.
Had he originally said 'I'm invading Iraq because Saddam is very very evil. Period.' I think you'd find a lot more folks wouldn't be quite so upset with him. Granted, he has plenty of other flaws...the whole Haliburton thing is just ridiculous. It's so over-the-top that we tend to ignore it in disbelief or something.
There was a great line from the 'OutFoxed' documentary (a must-see documentar
That's good, but worker productivity isn't necessarily correlated to unemployment rates, or income levels for folks. It does tend to correlate to the amount of hours worked. Granted, I'm not an economics wiz, so I'm not much of an opponent on this topic.
"- Unions suck - our sister company had a drinking problem - the union guys drank their lunch"
Whoah! You're anti union because you stereotype an entire topic based on your own company? Yeesh.
"Kerry wants to cave into the tyrants and terrorists in Iraq - he implies he wants out ASAP"
As anyone should. That should be the goal of ANY occupation, no? Leave as soon as you can. For the record, I believe Kerry has been saying that it'd take at least a year to pull out.
"Point taken - but what will Kerry do different?"
Very good question. I don't know. I do know he has a hell of a lot less ties to the military industrial complex and the oil industry then the bush/cheney team does. By default, that makes it a safer bet in my book.
And yes, I suppose there's a chance he's going to make wide-sweeping favorable policies regarding the world tomatoe industry. I'll take corrupt tomatoes over corrupt war contracts and oil deeds though. ;o)
" I guess we should just give up and leave Iraq as it is ... ignoring Saddam would have been better."
No matter how many times you say this, Bull, it does not get any more valid as an actual debatable comment. The baby with the bathwater argument is just a last-resort rant. Don't stoop to using it.
"Limit punitive damages for pain and suffering and stop treating the legal system as a lotery system."
It's that simple, eh? Have you ever worked in the judicial system? Our system is a tad more complex than that.
The issue is that you can't set limits. Cases are not the same. Each one is unique. Setting limits favours only one side...typically big business. Of course Bush is for that. He'd rather focus on fining CBS for showing a tit rather than allow citizens of the country to sue over environmental disasters.
"Bush is for Tort reform - that will have a more positive effect on health care cost than "talking about doing something with our healthcare system".'
That's simply not true. Actually, if you had universal health care, the government would actually have a lot more control over liability of the medical practioners.
"What is wrong with drilling for oil in an Arctic wasteland?"
It's a waste of money...the oil reserves up there aren't much.
It's not a wasteland. It's unspoiled wilderness. It's something we're quickly running out of on this planet of ours.
Finally, sooner or later, we need to figure out ways to stop suckling the teat of oil. Money would be much better spent on figuring that out than destroying pristine wildlife habitat.
"The tree huggers (oops no trees up there) are pretty wacky and do not live in a real world."
There's a massive gap between eco-terrorists and George Bush. Kerry is in there, as are most environmentalists and sane folks. Think long-term here, Bull...the planet isn't just yours and mine.
And Bull, Jingles makes very valid points (at least in his last post).
It's not really an issue of being for or against the war. It's about being for or against the methods that GW uses on the citizens of this country to convince us that he's 'right'.
Had he originally said 'I'm invading Iraq because Saddam is very very evil. Period.' I think you'd find a lot more folks wouldn't be quite so upset with him. Granted, he has plenty of other flaws...the whole Haliburton thing is just ridiculous. It's so over-the-top that we tend to ignore it in disbelief or something.
There was a great line from the 'OutFoxed' documentary (a must-see documentar
lame
Here's another reason to vote for Dubya - his incredibly intelligent and erudite analysis of tribal sovereignty:
http://www4.neilrogers.com/features/2004081201.html
But remember folks, Kerry's a flip-flopper who got shot in the arse in Vietnam so don't be voting for him :)
http://www4.neilrogers.com/features/2004081201.html
But remember folks, Kerry's a flip-flopper who got shot in the arse in Vietnam so don't be voting for him :)
Well, if you feel comfortable with the threat of getting nuked imminent any second because of a trigger-happy president who couldn't outsmart a boiled egg, that's up to you.
All this coming from someone who does not know the meaning of the word "fascism"
OPRAH FOR PRESIDENT!
What does it mean when 25 percent of our children in Harlem have asthma because of hair pollution? We can do better. America can do better. And help is on the way." (John Kerry)
"...but to strengthen American forces that are now overstretched, overextended, and under pressure, we will double our special forces to conduct terrorist operations...." (John Kerry)
"...but to strengthen American forces that are now overstretched, overextended, and under pressure, we will double our special forces to conduct terrorist operations...." (John Kerry)
"MDV - as I recall, the GNP has expanded 3 to 4 percent in the last year. Our company has been very busy since October of last year."
That's good, but worker productivity isn't necessarily correlated to unemployment rates, or income levels for folks. It does tend to correlate to the amount of hours worked. Granted, I'm not an economics wiz, so I'm not much of an opponent on this topic.
"- Unions suck - our sister company had a drinking problem - the union guys drank their lunch"
Whoah! You're anti union because you stereotype an entire topic based on your own company? Yeesh.
MDV - I see you ignored my other two examples concerning unionized construction. I did not mention it, but worked for two other companies with unions - getting anything accomplished was nearly impossible because of stonewalling by the unions.
"Kerry wants to cave into the tyrants and terrorists in Iraq - he implies he wants out ASAP"
As anyone should. That should be the goal of ANY occupation, no? Leave as soon as you can. For the record, I believe Kerry has been saying that it'd take at least a year to pull out.
MDV - Ah yes Kerry wants to leave Iraq prematurely and let the Baathists, Shiite and Kurds be slaughtered.
"Point taken - but what will Kerry do different?"
Very good question. I don't know. I do know he has a hell of a lot less ties to the military industrial complex and the oil industry then the bush/cheney team does. By default, that makes it a safer bet in my book.
And yes, I suppose there's a chance he's going to make wide-sweeping favorable policies regarding the world tomatoe industry. I'll take corrupt tomatoes over corrupt war contracts and oil deeds though. ;o)
" I guess we should just give up and leave Iraq as it is ... ignoring Saddam would have been better."
No matter how many times you say this, Bull, it does not get any more valid as an actual debatable comment. The baby with the bathwater argument is just a last-resort rant. Don't stoop to using it.
The Baathists, Shiites and Kurds will be in a genocide war if the US leaves.
"Limit punitive damages for pain and suffering and stop treating the legal system as a lotery system."
It's that simple, eh? Have you ever worked in the judicial system? Our system is a tad more complex than that.
The issue is that you can't set limits. Cases are not the same. Each one is unique. Setting limits favours only one side...typically big business. Of course Bush is for that. He'd rather focus on fining CBS for showing a tit rather than allow citizens of the country to sue over environmental disasters.
"Bush is for Tort reform - that will have a more positive effect on health care cost than "talking about doing something with our healthcare system".'
That's simply not true. Actually, if you had universal health care, the government would actually have a lot more control over liability of the medical practioners.
MDV - Did you even look at look at my statement about medical malpractice insurance? The USA has a legitimate reputation for frivilous lawsuits and outrageous lottery awards. Tort reform would cap damages for pain and suffering. It is time to bring some sanity back to the US legal system. Those that are "injured" should be justly compensated, but please no lottery awards.
"What is wrong with drilling for oil in an Arctic wasteland?"
It's a waste of money...the oil reserves up there aren't much.
It's not a wasteland. It's unspoiled wilderness. It's something we're quickly running out of on this planet of ours.
Finally, sooner or later, we need to figure out ways to stop suckling the teat of oil. Money would be much better spent on figuring that out than destroying pristine wildlife habitat.
"The tree huggers (oops no trees up there) are pretty wacky and do not live in a
OPRAH FOR PRESIDENT!
I TOTALLY AGREE...
...BUT ONLY IF SHE CAN GIVE A BRAND NEW CAR TO EVERYONE.
<---Anti-Bush
Can't you guys write shorter posts? Anyway, Mr. Jingles...you should keep in mind that you should make a valid point every now and then instead of blatantly attacking anyone who may disagree with your views. Just try doing it...I have yet to see a post of yours in this thread that completely follows the laws of logic. Thankfully you have had two people to dilute your pointless rantings, and you are extremely closed minded (and rude) to blow off relevant points with laughter and without a decent (if any) rebuttal.
As for unions, I don't possess much knowledge of them...I believe that they are necessary to protect the rights of workers, but I also believe that most, if not all, unions abuse their persuasive powers within their respective industries. For example, the teachers' union has done everything they can to impose tenure laws and illogical pay raises based solely on service time and college degree. After tenure, do teachers even have to teach, let alone teach well? The answer is 'no', but thankfully I have yet to learn from such a teacher who willfully abuses such priveleges.
As for unions, I don't possess much knowledge of them...I believe that they are necessary to protect the rights of workers, but I also believe that most, if not all, unions abuse their persuasive powers within their respective industries. For example, the teachers' union has done everything they can to impose tenure laws and illogical pay raises based solely on service time and college degree. After tenure, do teachers even have to teach, let alone teach well? The answer is 'no', but thankfully I have yet to learn from such a teacher who willfully abuses such priveleges.
Bull...it's getting really hard to read your replies. You need to figure out how to use the quote tool.
Anyways, from looking at your post, it sounds like you're against leaving Iraq as it will lead to civil war. I'm not sure if there's much any president can do about that. Iraq is not a nation of like-minded folks. It's a nation of very different ethnic backgrounds combined with a warring tribal society. In many ways, a civil war is inevitable.
Regardless of that, things aren't really getting better right now, are they? There's more terrorism in Iraq than ever and we're still loosing American soldier's lives. On top of that we're now loosing the lives of all sorts of relief workers and private citizens from pretty much any country.
Kerry's point is that you can't fight terrorism by going to war with a country. He's right. We need to approach this an entirely different way. Haliburton isn't the way.
As for unions, you seem to have your mind made up from a small number of personal experiences. So be it. Doesn't sound like I can change your mind on that.
Otherwise, I didn't see much else to responsd to.
Anyways, from looking at your post, it sounds like you're against leaving Iraq as it will lead to civil war. I'm not sure if there's much any president can do about that. Iraq is not a nation of like-minded folks. It's a nation of very different ethnic backgrounds combined with a warring tribal society. In many ways, a civil war is inevitable.
Regardless of that, things aren't really getting better right now, are they? There's more terrorism in Iraq than ever and we're still loosing American soldier's lives. On top of that we're now loosing the lives of all sorts of relief workers and private citizens from pretty much any country.
Kerry's point is that you can't fight terrorism by going to war with a country. He's right. We need to approach this an entirely different way. Haliburton isn't the way.
As for unions, you seem to have your mind made up from a small number of personal experiences. So be it. Doesn't sound like I can change your mind on that.
Otherwise, I didn't see much else to responsd to.