While writing a thread to the Hot Space ressurection topic, I realised that Hot Space is mixed quite good (the sound, I mean).
So I would like to know of you, what is in your opinion the best sounding Queen album.
I think that "Jazz" is mixed down quite good, hey, for a 26 years old recording! you can hear all instruments very good throughout the whole album - on "Queen II" some parts seems to be overloaded.
The worst mix - sorry for the word "worst" in relation to Queen - is (of course maybe) the first album. Although always critizised, I like the drum mix of Night comes Down.
IMHO: SHA, ANATO and ADATR sound very "full", on some songs a bit too "fat" (White Man), NOTW is very transparent, good mixed. Flash Gordon is okay, for a soundtrack. The Game is clear too, good mix, but sounds very different to all previous albums (thanks to Mack), just like Hot Space, which is very loud in the mix (especially "Side One"). The Works' mix is for me a real disappointment - the "Human fights against the puter"-thing did not work really good IMHO. A Kind of Magic is a very good mixdown, The Miracle too - although I dislike the sound of some instruments, Innuendo sounds fine, very balanced, Made in Heaven has some weak songs (in the mix), I dont really like the drum sound, or the homogenity of the instruments (IMO!)
Now it's your turn :)
Thread
Posts in chronological order
hmmmm.....don't like the oldies albums
Queen: sounds even older than it is, for example steely dan records from the same era (very early 70s) although they had a different musical approach sound much clearer and crispier, more transparent. very early genesis records sound equally old (not bad, but... old) It sounds like Queen in a box.
QueenII: this record of course wasnt supposed to sound thin, or edgy or funky - it is like a creampie, a fat wall of sound and IMHO one if not THE best Queen album. Sound fits.
SHA, ANATO, ADATR: definite Queen-sound of the 70s, atmospheric, multitracked, full of echoes and overdubs but at the same time cristalclear and even light in some cases. with a tendency to sound thicker in ADATR, yes. but still absolutely transparent despite all those multitracked takes.
NOTW: raw, evil, dirty, great. still very clear, the drums kinda creep in your ear.
Jazz: i hate the drums on that album, and in some cases it sounds all too dry, as years later on The Miracle. I DO like dry sounds for some bands, but not so much for (at least 70's)Queen. whereas on
The Game: the songs get funkier so the dry sound fits now - listen to dragon attack with headphones and you think you are with the band in the studio, jamming around. songwise, the edgy sound fits now.
Hot Space: this album is way better than its image but it seems they couldnt agree on an overall sound. very diverse. dunno, really...
The Works: The (few) guitars sound really great, really hard-edged, I do like the basic sound of the album, but it is one of my least favourite in general. but that's not due to the sound.
AKOM: Too much. Of everything. Fits only on a few tracks. Dont lose your head is really atmospheric and pretty much of its time and Princes of course rocks, but in general its just too overflown with thick keyboards. Not as bad as many think, though, cause its sounds that cinematic for obvious reasons...
The Miracle: too dry, not big enough IMHO. Except for WIAWI of course.
Innuendo: Perfect ! Nuff said !
MIH: what sounds naturally atmospheric on Innuendo is IMO too artificial on MIH. Too many delays, echoes and tweeting birds, every effect on the album seems to say: look, he's dead, it has to sound like this...
QueenII: this record of course wasnt supposed to sound thin, or edgy or funky - it is like a creampie, a fat wall of sound and IMHO one if not THE best Queen album. Sound fits.
SHA, ANATO, ADATR: definite Queen-sound of the 70s, atmospheric, multitracked, full of echoes and overdubs but at the same time cristalclear and even light in some cases. with a tendency to sound thicker in ADATR, yes. but still absolutely transparent despite all those multitracked takes.
NOTW: raw, evil, dirty, great. still very clear, the drums kinda creep in your ear.
Jazz: i hate the drums on that album, and in some cases it sounds all too dry, as years later on The Miracle. I DO like dry sounds for some bands, but not so much for (at least 70's)Queen. whereas on
The Game: the songs get funkier so the dry sound fits now - listen to dragon attack with headphones and you think you are with the band in the studio, jamming around. songwise, the edgy sound fits now.
Hot Space: this album is way better than its image but it seems they couldnt agree on an overall sound. very diverse. dunno, really...
The Works: The (few) guitars sound really great, really hard-edged, I do like the basic sound of the album, but it is one of my least favourite in general. but that's not due to the sound.
AKOM: Too much. Of everything. Fits only on a few tracks. Dont lose your head is really atmospheric and pretty much of its time and Princes of course rocks, but in general its just too overflown with thick keyboards. Not as bad as many think, though, cause its sounds that cinematic for obvious reasons...
The Miracle: too dry, not big enough IMHO. Except for WIAWI of course.
Innuendo: Perfect ! Nuff said !
MIH: what sounds naturally atmospheric on Innuendo is IMO too artificial on MIH. Too many delays, echoes and tweeting birds, every effect on the album seems to say: look, he's dead, it has to sound like this...
Regor,
I absolutely agree with your statements. The Jazz album is very dry on drums, thats true, but I find the drum sound here better than on some 80s productions. You are right with The Game, which is thanks Mack a very authentic sound. And your MIH statement, thank you for that, you hit the nail on the head... Somehow the MIH album sounds "far", it is not close or tight, and is full of effects (delays, reverbs, synths), which I detest in general.
The sound of old albums isnt always bad, as you said correctly, I love the sound of Deep Purples Machine Head album, or Beatles' Revolver, Led Zeppelins IV,... but Queen I. is very poor. I really like the songs, but I disagree with the engineers, seems they just told the band "record it and go home, we will do everything later on". I even like the Beeb versions more in terms of mix , setup and sound. Although the Beeb isn't good really IMO
I absolutely agree with your statements. The Jazz album is very dry on drums, thats true, but I find the drum sound here better than on some 80s productions. You are right with The Game, which is thanks Mack a very authentic sound. And your MIH statement, thank you for that, you hit the nail on the head... Somehow the MIH album sounds "far", it is not close or tight, and is full of effects (delays, reverbs, synths), which I detest in general.
The sound of old albums isnt always bad, as you said correctly, I love the sound of Deep Purples Machine Head album, or Beatles' Revolver, Led Zeppelins IV,... but Queen I. is very poor. I really like the songs, but I disagree with the engineers, seems they just told the band "record it and go home, we will do everything later on". I even like the Beeb versions more in terms of mix , setup and sound. Although the Beeb isn't good really IMO
by the way, i almost forgot: keep in mind that Roger tends to change his drum kits setup. He is the only one who is not true to his sound :) While John used max. 3kinds of basses, and Brian plays the Red Special on about 95% of the songs, Roger has used more kits... (oh Sebastian help, you know it!!! *g* )
A tie between News of the World & The Game, taking into account all the masters I've heard, the 2001 remasters of these two are the very best sounding Queen albums.
A tie between News of the World & The Game, taking into account all the masters I've heard, the 2001 remasters of these two are the very best sounding Queen albums.
One question, is there a remarkable difference between the Remastered Albums of 2001 and the "original" albums of 1993/1994?
would love to hear II in dvd-a then we'll know just how magnificent Freddie's Side Black was
but for now i think Races will shine on DVD-a1
but for now i think Races will shine on DVD-a1
I can't compare them with the U.K. masters of 93/94 since I never heard those.
I'm basing those on 3 versions:
1991 Hollywood (NOTW is quite good but still pales in comparison to 2001, The Game is very weak and 'thin' sounding)
1998 Mini LP sleeves (both suffer a flat, dull sound due to the noise reduction)
2001 Japanese remasters (stunningly clear and dynamic, a world of difference)
But I think it's safe to assume the U.K. remasters don't hold a candle to the 2001s in regards to these two.
**link deleted, needed the space, sorry if it's quoted**
I'm basing those on 3 versions:
1991 Hollywood (NOTW is quite good but still pales in comparison to 2001, The Game is very weak and 'thin' sounding)
1998 Mini LP sleeves (both suffer a flat, dull sound due to the noise reduction)
2001 Japanese remasters (stunningly clear and dynamic, a world of difference)
But I think it's safe to assume the U.K. remasters don't hold a candle to the 2001s in regards to these two.
**link deleted, needed the space, sorry if it's quoted**
I can't compare them with the U.K. masters of 93/94 since I never heard those.
I'm basing those on 3 versions:
1991 Hollywood (NOTW is quite good but still pales in comparison to 2001, The Game is very weak and 'thin' sounding)
1998 Mini LP sleeves (both suffer a flat, dull sound due to the noise reduction)
2001 Japanese remasters (stunningly clear and dynamic, a world of difference)
But I think it's safe to assume the U.K. remasters don't hold a candle to the 2001s in regards to these two.
http://members.cox.net/myedits/2001.mp3
Thank you for your information! It's a pity that there are so many releases and remasters, and I remember that the Hollywood records have lots of little errors (cuts, missing parts). I live in Germany, so I guess the UK series you mentioned is the same as here available with the sleeve and CD printed in the Netherlands :) The ones that are remastered in Abbey Road...
Where the heck did they remaster the Japanese editions, or who was the engineer? Would be funny if the Japanese and the UK remasters are the same...
Well anyway, thanks a lot again for your help!
$1241.60,
just listening to the Fight from the Inside...
Hell this sounds very crisp :) Is this the Japanese one?
just listening to the Fight from the Inside...
Hell this sounds very crisp :) Is this the Japanese one?
In 1998 the first 8 studio albums were remastered at Abbey Road using this no-noise crap. Those were released in Japan, the U.K. and the U.S. as card sleeves. Each title separate in Japan, in two sets of four in the U.K., and in one boxed set in the U.S. called 'The Crown Jewels'
The 2001 remasters (this time for all albums) were also done at Abbey Road, this time without the no-noise and by Peter Mew who also did the Freddie solo collection. They were released as regular CDs in Japan that year. The studio albums from these remasters were released as card sleeves, again in Japan earlier this year (and also mass-imported to the U.K. for sale there)
Going back to the Hollywood remasters, the two discs which had missing bits (SHA and NOTW)were mastered by Kevin Metcalfe, who has been one of Queen's own masterists for worldwide releases... so it wasn't Hollywood's fault. And they quickly replaced them with corrected versions. Kevin is also to blame for the legendary Fat Bottomed Girls glitch on the 1994 'Jazz' remaster which emerged again on 'Rocks' and even on CD singles, all without being caught and corrected. The guy is obviously a moron.
Yes, that's a combo of Fight From the Inside & Dragon Attack, both from the 2001 remasters.
The 2001 remasters (this time for all albums) were also done at Abbey Road, this time without the no-noise and by Peter Mew who also did the Freddie solo collection. They were released as regular CDs in Japan that year. The studio albums from these remasters were released as card sleeves, again in Japan earlier this year (and also mass-imported to the U.K. for sale there)
Going back to the Hollywood remasters, the two discs which had missing bits (SHA and NOTW)were mastered by Kevin Metcalfe, who has been one of Queen's own masterists for worldwide releases... so it wasn't Hollywood's fault. And they quickly replaced them with corrected versions. Kevin is also to blame for the legendary Fat Bottomed Girls glitch on the 1994 'Jazz' remaster which emerged again on 'Rocks' and even on CD singles, all without being caught and corrected. The guy is obviously a moron.
Yes, that's a combo of Fight From the Inside & Dragon Attack, both from the 2001 remasters.
I always thought Jazz sounded really great on VINYL, but definitely lost something in the transition to CD. Mustapha in particular (I know Lisa J Goodrich agreed with me in that there was a big difference in that track).
The Game is probably my favorite, if unconventional, sound - I'm a Mack fan - give me ELO, Billy Squier, After The Fire (!!!) and the Queen LPs from that era any day!
The Game is probably my favorite, if unconventional, sound - I'm a Mack fan - give me ELO, Billy Squier, After The Fire (!!!) and the Queen LPs from that era any day!
juls,
thanx for your comments. I could go on for hours about MIH, not only about the sound but the album in general. I think it must have been discussed here several times before but maybe I'll start a thread about it someday...
Anyway, back to the sound-thing: yeah, Mack really was at the right time at the right place. The Game sounds magnificent.
And after also contributing to the Hot Space discussion I have to explain my aforementioned statement: I always liked it in the first place. I am an album-fetishist, and I want to listen to an album and get sucked in by it. Some albums after a proper mix and mastering can really capture you with a certain common atmosphere created by the overall sound-"coating" for the respective songs. Some albums just can't (The Works IMO). Hot Space sure can. The songs really do work in their context and the atmophere is quite steamy, clubby, if you like. So what I was refferring to was the very dry synthetic sound of Staying Power compared to the more open sounding Back Chat (the tight bass is contrasted by the reverb on guitar and some of the percussion-elements) or the jamsession-mood of Under Pressure as examples for different types of songs with very different required basic-sounds. But it is actually tied together by the mastering and sounds like an evening in a club or something. Even the more rockorientated songs sound pretty intense, perhaps mainly due to Freddies Vocal-Work. So Hot Space for me falls into the category of albums with a certain atmoshere from the first bar to the last, its just very diverse in itself. On other albums this diversity leads to sounding like a compilation. Here it fits.
I would also really like to see a list of the different sets Roger used. Especially why the very early ones sounded that crappy ! I mean, John Bonham already had the big sound in the late 60s...
thanx for your comments. I could go on for hours about MIH, not only about the sound but the album in general. I think it must have been discussed here several times before but maybe I'll start a thread about it someday...
Anyway, back to the sound-thing: yeah, Mack really was at the right time at the right place. The Game sounds magnificent.
And after also contributing to the Hot Space discussion I have to explain my aforementioned statement: I always liked it in the first place. I am an album-fetishist, and I want to listen to an album and get sucked in by it. Some albums after a proper mix and mastering can really capture you with a certain common atmosphere created by the overall sound-"coating" for the respective songs. Some albums just can't (The Works IMO). Hot Space sure can. The songs really do work in their context and the atmophere is quite steamy, clubby, if you like. So what I was refferring to was the very dry synthetic sound of Staying Power compared to the more open sounding Back Chat (the tight bass is contrasted by the reverb on guitar and some of the percussion-elements) or the jamsession-mood of Under Pressure as examples for different types of songs with very different required basic-sounds. But it is actually tied together by the mastering and sounds like an evening in a club or something. Even the more rockorientated songs sound pretty intense, perhaps mainly due to Freddies Vocal-Work. So Hot Space for me falls into the category of albums with a certain atmoshere from the first bar to the last, its just very diverse in itself. On other albums this diversity leads to sounding like a compilation. Here it fits.
I would also really like to see a list of the different sets Roger used. Especially why the very early ones sounded that crappy ! I mean, John Bonham already had the big sound in the late 60s...
$1241.60,
thank you very much for your information! I have to admit I never spend a thought on the different remaster series, because I have the vinyls - most of them original ones - and just bought the CDs from time to time, to complete the CD collection and to rip them on my PC. I think I will have to buy the NOTW and Game, maybe Jazz as a Japanese remaster, because that's stunning :) Thanks a lot again for your help!!
Regor,
correct! Steamy club :) That's absolutely right, the atmosphere on the album fits to the smell of porn, steam and sweat, and I dare to say that on vinyl the sound (nearly of all albums in general) was better. Hooo, some ppl. think I'm mad, but CD sound is always compressed, flatened, normalized, voluminized, misses the ambience. I am vinyl fetishist. And the Side 1/Side 2-thing works on vinyl!
You know that a MIH-discussion will polarize as much as a Hot Space-discussion?! :)
I remember the "last track"-thread, where some people thought it is blasphemy to critize *g*
About the drums - well, Sebastian had a nice list of kits on his page before, unfortunately this is not longer online. I remember BM on GVH1 CD2 - Making of Rhapsody saying, that they used direct microphoning on the first tracks, which means they mic'ed the bass drum, snare, each tom and a overhead - and to add the reverb afterwards, to gain the ambience. Later on they used some ambience mikes which were around the drumkit, too. Well I'm no drummer, but what you say is right, John Bonham or Ian Paice have a very big drumsound, and even recorded in the same studio!
I will do some research on that.
thank you very much for your information! I have to admit I never spend a thought on the different remaster series, because I have the vinyls - most of them original ones - and just bought the CDs from time to time, to complete the CD collection and to rip them on my PC. I think I will have to buy the NOTW and Game, maybe Jazz as a Japanese remaster, because that's stunning :) Thanks a lot again for your help!!
Regor,
correct! Steamy club :) That's absolutely right, the atmosphere on the album fits to the smell of porn, steam and sweat, and I dare to say that on vinyl the sound (nearly of all albums in general) was better. Hooo, some ppl. think I'm mad, but CD sound is always compressed, flatened, normalized, voluminized, misses the ambience. I am vinyl fetishist. And the Side 1/Side 2-thing works on vinyl!
You know that a MIH-discussion will polarize as much as a Hot Space-discussion?! :)
I remember the "last track"-thread, where some people thought it is blasphemy to critize *g*
About the drums - well, Sebastian had a nice list of kits on his page before, unfortunately this is not longer online. I remember BM on GVH1 CD2 - Making of Rhapsody saying, that they used direct microphoning on the first tracks, which means they mic'ed the bass drum, snare, each tom and a overhead - and to add the reverb afterwards, to gain the ambience. Later on they used some ambience mikes which were around the drumkit, too. Well I'm no drummer, but what you say is right, John Bonham or Ian Paice have a very big drumsound, and even recorded in the same studio!
I will do some research on that.