John McCain!! :)

Under Pressure wrote:

"it seems there's so little wrong he's done in the past four years that it is necessary to bring up 2000."

I would call you a bad name, but it's not even worth of you. THIS HAS BEEN THE WORST PRESIDENCY IN US HISTORY! Check your facts before acting like a dumbass!

Do I need to point out sarcasm for you when I use it?

Now, I'll put it in little words so that you can understand:

Why... say it with me children... why is it NEC-CESS-ARY (big word, but sound it out and you can do it) to BRING UP THE E-LEC-TION when there are OTH-ER things to COM-PLAIN A-BOUT that BUSH has DONE. BRING-ING UP 2000 MAKES it seem like you have NOTH-ING else on your SIDE.

You are a narrow minded annoying little girl.

Narrow-minded and annoying? Simply because you share a different view?

READ A BOOK. There's a lot of opinions out there, and not all of them are yours.

Marriage is a RIGHT. Therefore disallowing marriage is, indeed, "restricting the rights of gay people."

KERRY IS AGAINST GAY MARRIAGE, TOO!!!!

Why can't you get this through your pea brain?

Why don't you get John Kerry's balls out of your mouth for a second and look up what he actually believes?

People like you piss me off to no end. You can't even give a real answer as to why you support Bush; you have no facts, just the bullshit propaganda he throws at us.

Well people like YOU piss me off to no end. At least I don't have to generalize and blast everyone who supports Kerry. I was taught in school to be respectful of others, unlike YOU.

And if you'd have been listening instead of calling me narrow-minded, I support Bush because I trust him to protect this country from the threat of terrorism more than I trust Kerry. I could write a disseritation on why I support him, but since you will just scoff at it and call me a dumbass, I'm not wasting my energy when my closing night of the play is tonight.

Hmmm... I am one of three Republicans in my cast out of fourteen, but all of THEM were taught manners and don't call me narrow-minded OR a hypocrite. This is because they can 1) read 2) listen to another opinion without busting a ball and 3) make a case without using petty-ass insults against me. Maybe you should talk to them sometime.

I'm sure Senator Kerry would not approve of name-calling.

<font color=000000>Music Man</font> wrote:

I don't mean to be mean, but Holly does have some rational arguments with many points which remain to be rebutted, and Sara (is it?) is not doing a good job at explaining her position very well. I'm sure she has her reasons, and that they are all rational, but there is a popular saying here (and I'm sure several places elsewhere) concerning debates, which is "put down the shovel."

What I am seeing a lot of, though, on BOTH sides are attacks upon not what people say, but the people themselves (yeah, I am often guilty of this, but I am working on it - just call me a hypocrite)...Come on, we're all friends here, or at least I would like to think so. We are all going to disagree, but a debate should be a friendly way to express your opinions in an intelligent manner.

Also, it is very clear to me and I'm sure to many others that Holly is a great debater. This doesn't mean that Holly has better opinions than anyone else, but just a much better ability to argument and expression. That doesn't mean that other people don't have anything to say; they are just not as good at saying it.

I can't argue my position because I'm too busy having to respond to people attacking my character!

I'm sure you all wouldn't like it if the debate had gone like this.

Kerry: Well, I think that we should -
Bush: You're a narrowminded hypocrite scumbag.
Kerry: Now wait a second Mr. President, I am hardly -
Bush: You're evil, you're annoying and you're an idiot, and I'm ashamed to share this stage with you.
Kerry: How am I evil? Annoying? What -
Bush: People like you PISS ME OFF! Go away! Maybe some liberal wants to listen to you blather, but I don't!
Kerry: This is a debate, Mr. President, so please act -
Bush: What, can't take the heat? Here's a bunch of articles, you impudent cocksucking turdbag! You haven't defended your position once!

Well, why isn't what's bad for the rooster be bad for the hen?

geeks&geeks<br><font>God Empress</font> wrote:

You know, guys, she's got a point. We liberals are supposed to be the tireless opponents of tolerance, and yet, when faced with someone who disagree with us, we go into a weeklong sliming snit.

Could we please reserve the rage for the fucks who actually deserve it, like Ann Coulter and Grover Norquist? They're completely nuts. We don't need to bother listening to them. If you actually bother to have a conversation with Sara, you would realize that while completely perverted, she is not a Hannityesque psychopath. There are intelligent, sensible conservatives in the world.

And Kerry IS against gay marriage. I've said it before and I'll say it again - I support him, but that doesn't change his being a weenie.

Oh yeah, and I'm about as far left as they come, so anyone who accuses me of being a pawn for the right can just go fuck themselves.

(John McCain? Sexy? You gotta be kidding me...)

*hugs Mandy*

Oh yes, McCain is fluffy. He's the newest member of my political harem! :)

... Who's Grover Norquist? "I'm your furry friend Grover!"

Yeah, I'm half-asleep.

Holly2003 wrote:

You can't deal with opinions that contradict your own so you misrepresent what I say and make personal attacks on me and my family. Classic keyboard warrior stuff. However, I should know better than to argue with some of the teenagers on here, many of whom are so terrified of "losing face" in public that they resort to personal abuse in defence of their puny intellectual abilities.

Hey, Holly, you resorted to it before I did. And I didn't "attack your family", I pointed out that I was taught to respect others. You're the one who decided to start all the name-calling. If you wanna support Kerry, that's fine, but take a goddamned page from him and behave with some maturity.

INtolerance! I meant INtolerance!

Grover Norquist is an uber-conservative, famous primarily for a quote in which he said he wanted to reduce government to the size where he could drain it down the bathtub. He's a psycho. He was also the primary fuel source of the Clintons-left-shits-in-the-White-House stories.

In the meantime, both Sara and Holly have made some decent points. I'm not going to ask that we all try to get along, because I am trying to be realistic, but Jesus Christ, guys, some of you sound like six-year-olds in a haunted house. Don't start foaming at the mouth just because you see something different, perhaps even ugly. It's a perfectly normal human being.

geeks&geeks<br><font>God Empress</font> wrote:

INtolerance! I meant INtolerance!

lol, I assumed you did :)

Grover Norquist is an uber-conservative, famous primarily for a quote in which he said he wanted to reduce government to the size where he could drain it down the bathtub. He's a psycho. He was also the primary fuel source of the Clintons-left-shits-in-the-White-House stories.

... I'm glad I never heard those stories... They sound like something I do not plan on picturing.

lol :)

You need to call me, biotch... lol

" I was taught in school to be respectful of others, unlike YOU."

"Why don't you get John Kerry's balls out of your mouth for a second"

I'm glad I didn't go to your school.

The more you say, the more ridiculous you sound.

Kerry really isn't against gay marriage, you know. Kerry has been forced to say that for election reasons. And even so, he still says publicly that gay citizens are citizens nonetheless and deserve their rights, unlike Bush.

Under Pressure wrote:

" I was taught in school to be respectful of others, unlike YOU."

"Why don't you get John Kerry's balls out of your mouth for a second"

I'm glad I didn't go to your school.

The more you say, the more ridiculous you sound.

Kerry really isn't against gay marriage, you know. Kerry has been forced to say that for election reasons. And even so, he still says publicly that gay citizens are citizens nonetheless and deserve their rights, unlike Bush.

"forced to say that for election reasons"? Shouldn't a candidate say what is in their heart and not what will get them elected?

And if you were to watch the third debate, Bush clearly states that he believes gay people deserve tolerance and kindness just like everyone else.

Show me somewhere where Bush said that gay people are not citizens. You're making things up. If he felt that way, don't you think Cheney's daughter would be a bit uncomfortable?

FreddiesGhettoTrench wrote:

Under Pressure wrote:

" I was taught in school to be respectful of others, unlike YOU."

"Why don't you get John Kerry's balls out of your mouth for a second"

I'm glad I didn't go to your school.

The more you say, the more ridiculous you sound.

Kerry really isn't against gay marriage, you know. Kerry has been forced to say that for election reasons. And even so, he still says publicly that gay citizens are citizens nonetheless and deserve their rights, unlike Bush.

"forced to say that for election reasons"? Shouldn't a candidate say what is in their heart and not what will get them elected?

And if you were to watch the third debate, Bush clearly states that he believes gay people deserve tolerance and kindness just like everyone else.

Show me somewhere where Bush said that gay people are not citizens. You're making things up. If he felt that way, don't you think Cheney's daughter would be a bit uncomfortable?

This is true...gay marriage should not be a considerable issue in this election due to the minute, if existent, discrepancies between the two candidates' views on it.

FreddiesGhettoTrench wrote:

A life choice? How about the life choice of being a Republican? Is that protected? Obviously not.

Which proves my point that YOU don't give a shit who is judged as long as it benefits YOU

What I meant was, there's a difference between "disagreeing with someone" and "labelling them as substandard" because of it. I'm not implying that you're doing that, but it's certainly a characteristic of a large number of conservatives, especially when it comes to religion.

For how bad Bush apparently is, it seems there's so little wrong he's done in the past four years that it is necessary to bring up 2000.

What a pathetic and typically conservative thing to say. Attacking the person, and not the problem. Just because someone brings up the past doesn't mean there aren't current problems. Did you happen to miss the part where it was said that there are an estimated 100,000 Iraqis dead, thanks to a decision by Bush?

Sure, he'll keep *you* safe, but what about other people who aren't Americans, especially those in countries where there is something he wants, such as oil?

Under Pressure wrote:

Economic Depression + Deficit + Unemployment + Removal of Rights (some forms of abortion, gay marriage proposition, revoke Roe v. Wade proposition, Patriot Act) + Not renewing Assault Weapon ban + IRAQ WAR + collapse of negotions in Israel + RELGIOUS emphasis (federal money goes primarily to faith based Christian charities, religious rhetoric,denouncing condom use in countries where AIDS is of epidemic proportions) + Attacks on Affirmative Action + Attacks on Educated Americans + Increase Class Gap + Virtually no relief for NYC after Sept. 11 ++++ the list goes on and on.

I'll ask this - what has he done RIGHT?

He has given us some hope that someone else may be elected on Tuesday.

What a pathetic and typically conservative thing to say. Attacking the person, and not the problem. Just because someone brings up the past doesn't mean there aren't current problems. Did you happen to miss the part where it was said that there are an estimated 100,000 Iraqis dead, thanks to a decision by Bush?

War is bloody, but the end of a war brings hope, hope that the Iraqis never had when they were being oppressed by Hussein.

War is bloody, but the end of a war brings hope, hope that the Iraqis never had when they were being oppressed by Hussein.

I fail to see the major difference between then and now. They are still being terrorized, just by a different country.

The war could end tomorrow, but Bush insists the US continues, fully knowing they are still killing innocent people daily. And don't say "that's the way war is". Such a pitiful attempt at rationalization is only defering from the problem at hand.

Face it, the war on terrorism is unbeatable while involving only the military. Terrorism will never end, unless you communicate properly with the opposing force. Kerry is promoting such non-violent ways of solving this problem. But in the last debate, Bush used complete double-talk in saying Kerry's plan for fighting terrorism in Iraq is to withdraw. He then said, "how can you win the war if the troops aren't there?" Bush knows exactly the kind of crowd he's playing to: lifelong conservatives whose levels of cognitive development are still at stage one. Dubya is no idiot in that sense.

To war-obsessed Americans who have bought into Bush's scare tactics, which is a good percentage of them, war is the only answer. To truly compassion-literate Americans, war is not the answer. Read my signature below.

And if you were to watch the third debate, Bush clearly states that he believes gay people deserve tolerance and kindness just like everyone else.

Speaking of saying things "for election reasons". By banning gay marriage, and quoting the bible on such matters, Bush has showed exactly what he thinks of gay people. More than once I've seen Bush on TV saying a marriage should be between a man and a woman. Any Bush-voting conservative who calls Kerry a flip-flop is a hypocrite for the above reason.

"Hey, Holly, you resorted to it before I did."

Do you think if you keep repeating that it will suddenly come true?

"And I didn't attack your family; I pointed out that I was taught to respect others."

..and that I wasn't. You're a little charmer aren't you. Some free advice: don't mention people's families when they have nothing to do with what is being said. And please, let's not pretend you're some little angel who respects the views of others. "Why don't you get John Kerry's balls out of your mouth for a second..." is quite funny but it's hardly respectful. Still, I suppose that's what passes for "respect" among Republicans these days. "Go fuck yourself" and "Big time asshole" are two of Dick Chaney's favorite catch phrases.

"You're the one who decided to start all the name-calling"

Remind me again, what names did I call you exactly?

"behave with some maturity."

Have you done anything in your life yet that would convince me to take your advice on anything?

FreddiesGhettoTrench wrote:

"forced to say that for election reasons"? Shouldn't a candidate say what is in their heart and not what will get them elected?

Would be nice, but I don't think that'll be happening anytime soon. If Bush said what was truly in his heart, I think he's be raising some eyebrows. Clearly he is ridiculously conservative - only someone of that caliber would have associated with someone like John Ashcroft.

John Kerry's scared of being labeled a liberal. It's why Democrats around the country have their heads in their hands.

Holly2003 wrote:

"Go fuck yourself" and "Big time asshole" are two of Dick Chaney's favorite catch phrases.

What about state Senator Fumo here in Pennsylvania? http://www.365gay.com/newscon04/10/100804paSlur.htm

At least Cheney doesn't call people THAT.

Remind me again, what names did I call you exactly?

"pro-war bullshit"
"puny intellectual abilities."
"What that really means is that Americans don't care how many foreigners get killed so long as they can keep their SUVs."

I call that pretty antagonistic, even discounting the fact that you, who are British, feel the need to call OUR president incompetent and stupid. I think we can vote on our own?

Have you done anything in your life yet that would convince me to take your advice on anything?

I passed tenth grade, unlike you.