I'm not a trader but if I were and I traded with you, I'd just convert the mp3s to flacs and none of you flac-traders-mp3-haters would ever notice.
poltergeist: How wrong can you be..
Have you ever heard of frequency analysis??? Or spectral view on audio editing software??
You need only 5 seconds of wav format audio file to tell if the source is mp3 based or not. It will take roughly 2-3 seconds to check this.
if it's *really* the case you could just edit the mp3s with those extra frequencies that only dogs hear :). The point is that many of the flac lovers hear have no idea about the real difference between a flac and a high quality mp3, they just like it because...[their bussiness]. Anyway if they have to make a frequency analysis to find out if it's mp3 or not, that says it all. Hell, a 320KB/s lame encoded mp3 is as close to perfection as a human ear can get.
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Mr Drowse
· Member since
MP3! MP3! MP3!just love 'em cause i cannot use anything else :(
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riku_queencdr
· Member since
audio CD->mp3->wav->mp3->wav->mp3->wav->mp3->wav-> about 5% left of music/audio, really bad "metallic" sound
audio CD->flac->wav->flac->wav->flac->wav->flac->wav-> The whole 100% of CD quality music/audio is still present. Exactly the same sound quality as on the original CD, unless there have been some copy errors during the conversions.
Got it now??
Your next comment will be "I make the mp3 conversion only once, this kind of "chain" is not happening.."
I can tell you that great number of people do like to burn the mp3 concerts on audio CD and then delete the original mp3s. When they want to trade a bootleg for the next time in mp3, they make a new conversion from the audio CD that contains ALREADY LOSSY version of the show. The next one does the same and the person after 5-6 trades gets an awful quality copy of the concert.
Maybe on the first 320kbp mp3 encoding you can't hear the difference, but if you do the conversion many times, you will hear it.
In most cases people don't do this on purpose but they simply don't have a slightest idea how mp3 works. They just do it because they can make the files smaller and easier to trade online.
With FLAC this is not happening. You can make the conversion as many times as you want as FLAC format works a bit like winzip. It only packs the audio, doesn't remove anything. FLAC is NOT lossy.
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Rick
· Member since
riku_queencdr wrote:
audio CD->mp3->wav->mp3->wav->mp3->wav->mp3->wav-> about 5% left of music/audio, really bad "metallic" sound
audio CD->flac->wav->flac->wav->flac->wav->flac->wav-> The whole 100% of CD quality music/audio is still present. Exactly the same sound quality as on the original CD, unless there have been some copy errors during the conversions.
Got it now??
Your next comment will be "I make the mp3 conversion only once, this kind of "chain" is not happening.."
I can tell you that great number of people do like to burn the mp3 concerts on audio CD and then delete the original mp3s. When they want to trade a bootleg for the next time in mp3, they make a new conversion from the audio CD that contains ALREADY LOSSY version of the show. The next one does the same and the person after 5-6 trades gets an awful quality copy of the concert.
Maybe on the first 320kbp mp3 encoding you can't hear the difference, but if you do the conversion many times, you will hear it.
In most cases people don't do this on purpose but they simply don't have a slightest idea how mp3 works. They just do it because they can make the files smaller and easier to trade online.
With FLAC this is not happening. You can make the conversion as many times as you want as FLAC format works a bit like winzip. It only packs the audio, doesn't remove anything. FLAC is NOT lossy.
Riku, I 100% agree with you. In other words: FLAC is for trading and sharing, and mp3 is only for sharing. How easy is that?
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Serry...
· Member since
Rick's comment is absolutely right and perfect!
There are two kind of fans: who's downloading for burning on CD and then trade and who's downloading for listen on PC and forget about it.
Why should I, who's not much into Queen lives, download 700 Mbs if I'm not gonna trade?! Do I care if audience recorded Dortmund '78 would sounds bad in both - flac or mp3? No I don't care. I'd download 80 Mbs, listen to the show, think "Wow! That was cool!" and that's it. I'm not gonna listen to most of the concerts for more than one time.
And besides this you need to understand that there are a lot of fans who have some other interests in life, some duties and who doesn't want to spend time on buying each week new hard-drive for more shows in FLAC (CD-Rs might ruin one day).
So if someone would offer me mp3 bootleg - I wouldn't refuse. I have them for fun, not for trading.
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Fat Lizzy
· Member since
fjac1980 wrote:
OTHER REASON:
3- SLOW INTERNET CONECTION.
I said that... They don't want to take much time; that kinda refers to a slow internet connection.
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riku_queencdr
· Member since
I don't mind people uploading shows in mp3. It's perfectly fine for me but I do get people bitching at me when I don't accept mp3 sourced bootlegs.
If you guys download only for your own use, it's your choice and I respect that but there are loads of people who download mp3 sourced stuff here and then try to trade it on audio CDs.
..and Serry; eventhough you trade music, it doesn't necessarily mean you sit 24/7 at a computer or copy CDs all the time :) You know, there are people who trade and collect but are still able to go to work every morning, take care of their family and children & other duties.
Even a hard drive can get damaged, so I tend to copy the FLAC shows on DVDR and hope it doesn't wear out in the coming years..
I just wanted to point out what the difference between FLAC and mp3 is and how these formats treat audio files. Some people claim there is no difference between mp3 and FLAC but this certainly isn't the case.
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Serry...
· Member since
riku_queencdr wrote:
I don't mind people uploading shows in mp3. It's perfectly fine for me but I do get people bitching at me when I don't accept mp3 sourced bootlegs.
If you guys download only for your own use, it's your choice and I respect that but there are loads of people who download mp3 sourced stuff here and then try to trade it on audio CDs.
..and Serry; eventhough you trade music, it doesn't necessarily mean you sit 24/7 at a computer or copy CDs all the time :) You know, there are people who trade and collect but are still able to go to work every morning, take care of their family and children & other duties.
Even a hard drive can get damaged, so I tend to copy the FLAC shows on DVDR.
I just wanted to point out what the difference between FLAC and mp3 is and how these formats treat audio files. Some people claim there is no difference between mp3 and FLAC but this certainly isn't the case.
Yes, I see your point. But I just want some people know that there are a lot of fans who doesn't care about this difference in formats. Like me, for instance.
About trading: no, no, no - I didn't mean this :) I just wrote that I wouldn't buy new hard-drive for my home PC just because there's no free space for shows in flac. I have other things to buy firstly and other duties to do instead of research of place for gigabytes of flac shows for my own using. But of course people who's bitching about your rules of trading are not right. It's up to you - in which format you want it to trade.
One thing that I can't understand - why people (I don't mean you) came here with statements like 'RapidShare and mp3 are sucks, shit, crap etc.' - no-one asks such guys to download concerts in mp3. If you're trader - you can trade show you need and don't shout here "Oh, shiiiiit, again in mp3!". I'd agree to hear studio version of 'Hangman' in damned RealAudio with low bitrate and wouldn't cry about "oh this is not in the flac, so I'm not gonna download this untill someone upload it in flac" :)
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Saint Jiub
· Member since
riku_queencdr wrote:
If you guys download only for your own use, it's your choice and I respect that but there are loads of people who download mp3 sourced stuff here and then try to trade it on audio CDs.
wear out in the coming years.
riku_queencdr wrote:
poltergeist wrote:
I'm not a trader but if I were and I traded with you, I'd just convert the mp3s to flacs and none of you flac-traders-mp3-haters would ever notice.
poltergeist: How wrong can you be..
Have you ever heard of frequency analysis??? Or spectral view on audio editing software??
You need only 5 seconds of wav format audio file to tell if the source is mp3 based or not. It will take roughly 2-3 seconds to check this.
On one hand, you deride mp3 users for polluting the trading pool, but on the other hand you say how easy it is to prevent mp3 users from polluting the trading pool.
hmm
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great king rat 1138
· Member since
The problem that I have with FLAC is that I, along with millions of other people in the UK, have a monthly transfer limit on my broadband connection, and if I were to upload or download shows in Flac, three shows would wipe out my connection for the month, and the internet is for more than just bootlegs!
As soon as there's such a thing as cheap unlimited broadband (that isn't AOL), then flac will be great, but until then, I'm perfectly happy to have stuff in mp3 format, as long as it's a decent bitrate, for my own use and to share with my friends
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roblov
· Member since
riku: what software do you use for spectral analysis? I´d like to get one that is able to make a spectrum of wav and mp3 files. I like the technical side of digital audio and would like to compare wavs and mp3s quantitatively.
Thanks in advance,
Roblov.
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tilomagnet
· Member since
roblov wrote:
riku: what software do you use for spectral analysis? I´d like to get one that is able to make a spectrum of wav and mp3 files. I like the technical side of digital audio and would like to compare wavs and mp3s quantitatively.
Thanks in advance,
Roblov.
I´m using a spectral analyzer called Analfreq to make sure that the concert is not mp3 sourced. Here is some info how to detect mp3 sources with spectral analyzers:http://geocities.com/cfr707/mp3.htm
Or you could also use for example Cool Edit Pro/Adobe Audition. It can display a spectral analysis of a wav file as well. I´ve used both Analfreq and CEP and it´s really easy to identify mp3 sources. Usually all the higher frequencies from 16khz on are missing. If a file has been converted to mp3 and reconverted again several times even more information has been lost and these files look very bad with all the frequencies above 10khz or so being cut.
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tilomagnet
· Member since
riku_queencdr wrote:
I don't mind people uploading shows in mp3. It's perfectly fine for me but I do get people bitching at me when I don't accept mp3 sourced bootlegs.
If you guys download only for your own use, it's your choice and I respect that but there are loads of people who download mp3 sourced stuff here and then try to trade it on audio CDs.
I totally agree with that.
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Saint Jiub
· Member since
but evidently it is easy to detect and avoid mp3's
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tilomagnet
· Member since
poltergeist wrote: Anyway if they have to make a frequency analysis to find out if it's mp3 or not, that says it all.
What kind of argument is that? How should anyone be able to tell if a show he received in a trade is mp3 sourced or not just from listening to the concert? If you can´t compare it to a true non mp3 sourced copy it´s impossible to find out. That´s why you need a spectrum analyzer. MP3 sources usually have some digi noise and small gaps between tracks, but that could also be a result of bad editing or copying.
