Actually may question is rather invalid to a degree. I never took the rules of Queenzone in consideration for my statement.
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togheter with JJS also a great thanks to Wilki!!!
Again, thanks to YOU, Ferdy.
While I am still analyzing every Keep Yourself Alive version between 1971 and 1974 that I have (I am now focusing on guitar licks and lyric changes), I have also started a research on the Master Room acetate labels. What I have learned so far is that the particular label attached to the KYA acetate was in use until 1976/1977 (some BEATLES-related discs are proof of that), but I could not locate any early-1970's example. In short: I am stuck. Maybe someone can help me. Any ideas, John? Thanks in advance.
While I am still analyzing every Keep Yourself Alive version between 1971 and 1974 that I have (I am now focusing on guitar licks and lyric changes), I have also started a research on the Master Room acetate labels. What I have learned so far is that the particular label attached to the KYA acetate was in use until 1976/1977 (some BEATLES-related discs are proof of that), but I could not locate any early-1970's example. In short: I am stuck. Maybe someone can help me. Any ideas, John? Thanks in advance.
Wilki: "...the particular label attached to the KYA acetate was in use until 1976/1977..."
I must admit this is slightly later than I thought - I would have settled for 1975/6 - but again it's nice to have a upper limit. Therefore regardless of any other external factors, we know for a fact that the acetate was cut between 1971 - 1976/7 for sure.
The earliest limit would have to be from Beatles acetates, but again I always thought late 1960's - early 70's (1968ish - 1971ish).
So we need to find some Beatles enthusiasts to find out.
I must admit this is slightly later than I thought - I would have settled for 1975/6 - but again it's nice to have a upper limit. Therefore regardless of any other external factors, we know for a fact that the acetate was cut between 1971 - 1976/7 for sure.
The earliest limit would have to be from Beatles acetates, but again I always thought late 1960's - early 70's (1968ish - 1971ish).
So we need to find some Beatles enthusiasts to find out.
I fully agree with you, John. In fact, I have contacted some BEATLES collectors, but with no luck. Nobody could give me a good answer, as most BEATLES acetates from the late 60's/early 70's were cut by Apple in the UK.
It seems that Master Room acetates of that period are indeed rare.
It seems that Master Room acetates of that period are indeed rare.
Wilki: "...the particular label attached to the KYA acetate was in use until 1976/1977..."
I'm sure I've seen that label in a Record Collector Article about a acetate from "The Cure" so it maybe some years later. Have to find that article to check the year.
Wilki: "...the particular label attached to the KYA acetate was in use until 1976/1977..."
I correct myself... just checked, it's a similar label about a acetate from "The Cure" :
"let's go to Bed" (1982).
I attach the photo
Wilki: "...the particular label attached to the KYA acetate was in use until 1976/1977..."
I correct myself... just checked, it's a similar label.
Acetate from "The Cure" :
"let's go to Bed" (1982).
I attach the photo
I find it extremely generous that Ferdy shared this acetate. Not only did he sacrifice trading value, he probably reduced the monetary value of his acetate.
I hope that nobody think that I'm stupid... as for the trading value I've got a very important informations to archive with this acetate and that it's priceless for a collector. Then if someone wants to share something with me , of course I'm reaaly open and would very happy to get something I miss in my audio/video collection :).
But this is not the point. I'm not millionaire and this acetate cost me a certain amount of money. I don't want to sell it but speaking of an hypotethic price I think it acquired more value cause of the infos I discovered shareing this.
let me know what you think.
Ferdy, I did not mean to imply you were stupid, I was just trying to point out the extent of your generosity, and the potential "sacrifice" you made for Queenzone. You did not have to share with everyone. You could have shared the song with just John and Wilki via e-mail as they were the main ones that were helpful to you.
Ferdy: Excellent Cure actetate. (Not as good as Queen though!)
But back to the point. If you re-examine your Keep Yourself Alive disc, you will notice some major differences - which provide additional information - or clues.
First: The telephone number. I can't recall exactly, but one of the big shake-ups occured c1990, when, all UK numbers commencing with a zero - were changed to - zero one. (All london numbers are now prefaced 01...). This has happened quite a few times in the London area, (about once or twice per decade) so a bit of detective work on the Master Room telephone number: 01 637 2223 (notice that here the telephone number consists of 2 - 3 - 4 digits) should date your disc 1970 - 75ish.
Second: the address. 59/61 Ridinghouse Street, London, W1P 7PP - should also yeild many clues. I am NOT a London expert, but i "think" W1 may refer to a district that has long since been redeveloped (were the docklands "P"?) - but i am sure some London experts could help out here.
Third: Building. I have physically seen a number of Queen EMI acetates. Some were cut at Abbey Road, others at Townhouse (you can view some great j-pegs at Ron B's - http://www.queenpicturehall.com/), I have also seen Trident acetates - but your acetate is neither - why? This (imo) suggests a solid affiliation with neither - hence the pre EMI suggestion.
Fourth: label design. If you compare your KYA and Cure acetates, you will see that they are on different coloured labels. This too yeilds clues.
For example Queen's early EMI 7" singles were pressed using the traditional tan/red labels with a huge Emi emblazened down the right hand side.
Queen's mid singles releases featured both the crests from ANATO & A day at the races.
Later singles, came in plain black labels - but the point is that all releases were official emi discs.
Sorry if this is all boring and turgid reading, but i find it fascinating - and i must point out - i am merely thinking aloud. that way i do not come across as some sort of arrogant git - but demonstrating the mental steps that need to be taken before I can say, "i think that... the evidence points to..."
But back to the point. If you re-examine your Keep Yourself Alive disc, you will notice some major differences - which provide additional information - or clues.
First: The telephone number. I can't recall exactly, but one of the big shake-ups occured c1990, when, all UK numbers commencing with a zero - were changed to - zero one. (All london numbers are now prefaced 01...). This has happened quite a few times in the London area, (about once or twice per decade) so a bit of detective work on the Master Room telephone number: 01 637 2223 (notice that here the telephone number consists of 2 - 3 - 4 digits) should date your disc 1970 - 75ish.
Second: the address. 59/61 Ridinghouse Street, London, W1P 7PP - should also yeild many clues. I am NOT a London expert, but i "think" W1 may refer to a district that has long since been redeveloped (were the docklands "P"?) - but i am sure some London experts could help out here.
Third: Building. I have physically seen a number of Queen EMI acetates. Some were cut at Abbey Road, others at Townhouse (you can view some great j-pegs at Ron B's - http://www.queenpicturehall.com/), I have also seen Trident acetates - but your acetate is neither - why? This (imo) suggests a solid affiliation with neither - hence the pre EMI suggestion.
Fourth: label design. If you compare your KYA and Cure acetates, you will see that they are on different coloured labels. This too yeilds clues.
For example Queen's early EMI 7" singles were pressed using the traditional tan/red labels with a huge Emi emblazened down the right hand side.
Queen's mid singles releases featured both the crests from ANATO & A day at the races.
Later singles, came in plain black labels - but the point is that all releases were official emi discs.
Sorry if this is all boring and turgid reading, but i find it fascinating - and i must point out - i am merely thinking aloud. that way i do not come across as some sort of arrogant git - but demonstrating the mental steps that need to be taken before I can say, "i think that... the evidence points to..."
Excellent post, John (as always). I must admit that some of your ideas to possible clues have also crossed my mind (after all, the same methods are applied to set limits to the pressing date of books and memorabilia - I used to work as an assistant to a historian), but I am no London expert either. And I do not have the slimest chance to meet one, as I live in Argentina.
By the way, it does not seem so weird to me that the KYA acetate was cut at Master Room and not at Trident (or EMI). Please bear in mind that Master Room is basically a sound postproduction facility - not a proper recording studio. So that is what they do for living: mastering, editing, cutting, duplicating... Think of it pretty much as of the Chop 'Em Out releases of the late 80's/early 90's. At that time, QUEEN were a high priority band for their labels and for any studio - in fact, they have one of their own. Still, the humble Chop 'Em Out was commissioned to make a lot of postproduction work for them: audio for commercials, EPKs, teasers, etc. Now think that at the time of their first album, QUEEN were not high priority - in fact they recorded it 'downtime'.
Please do not misunderstand me - I find all your considerations feasible. I just want to add another point of view. I hope it is welcome.
...And we still have to find more acetates with the same label, so we can set a lower limit based on that.
By the way, it does not seem so weird to me that the KYA acetate was cut at Master Room and not at Trident (or EMI). Please bear in mind that Master Room is basically a sound postproduction facility - not a proper recording studio. So that is what they do for living: mastering, editing, cutting, duplicating... Think of it pretty much as of the Chop 'Em Out releases of the late 80's/early 90's. At that time, QUEEN were a high priority band for their labels and for any studio - in fact, they have one of their own. Still, the humble Chop 'Em Out was commissioned to make a lot of postproduction work for them: audio for commercials, EPKs, teasers, etc. Now think that at the time of their first album, QUEEN were not high priority - in fact they recorded it 'downtime'.
Please do not misunderstand me - I find all your considerations feasible. I just want to add another point of view. I hope it is welcome.
...And we still have to find more acetates with the same label, so we can set a lower limit based on that.
Wilki: "Please do not misunderstand me - I find all your considerations feasible. I just want to add another point of view. I hope it is welcome."
Thanks - your point of view is always welcome, and as they say - two heads are better than one!
Why I am fascinted - it is because I want the answer to another question - why Master Room?
I feel like one of those great old scientists at the British museum when first presented with a duck-billed platypus - they thought it was a hoax!
But it wasn't - and it did exist.
It's a bit like Ferdy's acetate - it exists - but shouldn't - and that is the great mystery of it all!
Thanks - your point of view is always welcome, and as they say - two heads are better than one!
Why I am fascinted - it is because I want the answer to another question - why Master Room?
I feel like one of those great old scientists at the British museum when first presented with a duck-billed platypus - they thought it was a hoax!
But it wasn't - and it did exist.
It's a bit like Ferdy's acetate - it exists - but shouldn't - and that is the great mystery of it all!
Being a scientist myself, I understand exactly what you mean, John. In fact, I am deeply intrigued myself, although it is not the Master Room issue what puzzles me more (as I explained in my previous post). The very existence of Ferdy's disc is what fascinates me, as it points to the KYA "re-take/original version" being considered as a single, hence the need for an edit. And that is something we never knew before.
Being a scientist myself, I understand exactly what you mean, John. In fact, I am deeply intrigued myself, although it is not the Master Room issue what puzzles me more (as I explained in my previous post). The very existence of Ferdy's disc is what fascinates me, as it points to the KYA "re-take/original version" being considered as a single, hence the need for an edit. And that is something we never knew before.
I dont think that every edit means that it was once proposed as a single release. I have a Trident 7" acetate with an edited BBC version of Ogre Battle. Don't think that that one was ever considered as a single.
I have to agree with Ron - just because an edit version exists does not automatically mean that it should be released as a single - but it does mean that someone is playing about with both mixes and timings. But again that begs the question - why?
In the words of Johnny Nash - there are more questions than answers!
In the words of Johnny Nash - there are more questions than answers!