Lester's Album Discussion Thread - "Queen" | Queen - Serious Discussion

Lester Burnham 19 June 2005 11:53 · Member since May 2003

As this is the inaugural album discussion thread, I found it only appropriate that we start with the first Queen album. But first, some basic rules:

1. If you don't own the album, do not contribute. I want this to be a discussion, and posts by somebody saying only "I like 'Keep Yourself Alive' on Classic Queen, is that on this album?" or something to that nature contributes nothing to the discussion.

2. As most people have been quick to jump down the throats of foreign posters about their English, I can only ask that those not familiar with the language do their best. For those who speak English as their first language, there really is no excuse. Try to formulate your thoughts so that everyone can enjoy them. No speaking in tongues, please.

3. You don't need to like the album - these aren't appreciation threads, these are discussion threads. If you don't like the album, don't be afraid to say so! Everyone should be responsive to constructive criticism, so if the album isn't one of your favorites, explain why in a decent manner instead of just saying, "This album sucks because of X song."

3a. Disagreements are encouraged. Well, okay... not exactly encouraged, but don't be afraid to disagree with someone as long as you disagree in a dignified manner.

BAD:
Poster A: "'The Kiss' is probably my favorite song off the album."
Poster B: "WHAT?! 'THE KISS' IS ABSOLUTELY THE WORST SONG RELEASED BY QUEEN! YOU SHOULD KNOW THAT, YOU JACKASS! ANYONE WHO LIKES 'THE KISS' LIKES BOILS ON THEIR FACE AND BEING TORTURED BY TOADS BITING THEIR FINGERNAILS! A POX ON YOUR FAMILY AND ANYTHING YOU SHOULD SPAWN, YOU HEATHEN!"
Poster A: "..."

GOOD:
Poster A: "'The Kiss' is probably my favorite song off the album."
Poster B: "It's not that great, in my opinion, but what do you like about it?"
Poster A: "I like the segue from 'Execution Of Flash' and the orchestration. Freddie's vocalisations are just great."
Poster B: "Hmm. That's exactly what I don't like about it."

*Posters A and B share a beer and become best friends*

4. These will be posted every two weeks. They won't necessarily follow the chronological order of Queen albums, nor will they be restricted to Queen-only albums. I know that many people don't have the solo albums, myself included - I do not possess any of The Cross's records - so if there is someone who would like to take control of those three albums, please let me know and I would be more than happy to surrender my duties in those instances. However, for the most part, I'm going to be in charge of this. If anything should happen to me, then I would hope the album discussion threads would be the LEAST of your worries!

Alright, with those unpleasantries out of the way, on with the show:

"Overture, curtains, lights!
This is it, the night of nights!
And oh, the heights we'll hit!
On with the show, this is it!"

Ahem.

L

Lester Burnham 19 June 2005 12:03 · Member since May 2003

First, a review from All Music Guide ( www.allmusic.com ) by Greg Prato:

Although it may not be up to par with such future classics as A Night at the Opera and The Game, Queen's 1973 self-titled debut is one of the most underrated hard rock debuts of all time. Chances are that many will only be familiar with one song (the classic rock radio staple "Keep Yourself Alive"), but it is a very consistent and solid album; even the more uncommon compositions are impressive and memorable. Unlike other notable hard rock debuts of the '60s/'70s (Led Zeppelin, Van Halen, Kiss, etc.), Queen's first album was not recorded quickly, but over the course of a year or two, since the band had to record during the studio's off hours to minimize costs. Even so, the album does retain continuity, a perfect balance of anthems (the aforementioned "Keep Yourself Alive"), gorgeous ballads ("The Night Comes Down," "Doing All Right"), and raging heavy metal ("Liar," "Great King Rat," "Son & Daughter"). All of the band's future musical trademarks can be detected here as well -- Brian May's sweeping guitar orchestras (several different guitars overdubbed to create harmonies), Freddie Mercury's vocal acrobatics, and the solid rhythm section of drummer Roger Taylor and bassist John Deacon (listed as Deacon John in the credits here). At the time, many critics dismissed the band and the debut (unfairly classifying Queen as "disposable glam"), but in hindsight, Queen laid down the groundwork for this legendary band's future triumphs.

I do agree that the album is severely underrated as a debut album, and was decidedly Led Zeppelin in nature ('Keep Yourself Alive', 'Liar', 'Son And Daughter'). This was obviously a band who knew their material well and had honed it to near-perfection in the live setting, but they seemed to get the raw end of the deal by having to record it over the course of eighteen months or so. Most bands just get in, record songs quickly, and get out, and the debut album is done within a few weeks, but Queen were already showing what kind of perfectionists they were turning out to be with the meticulous production qualities that they would incorporate into nearly all their albums: multitracked guitars, walls and walls of vocals and harmonies, and slightly ambiguous lyrics, especially from Freddie.

The one track that is sublime beauty is 'The Night Comes Down', which is sandwiched between the six minute tour de force 'Liar' and the manic burst of 'Modern Times Rock 'n' Roll'. It is stripped back to just acoustic guitar, electric bass, and drums, with occasional subtle guitar orchestrations, while Freddie (through Brian's words) waxes nostalgic about the Summer of Love.

'Doing All Right' is of special mention here, as it really grew on me since I first got this album nearly a decade ago. Initially, I thought it was just another ballad, but grew to appreciate it after purchasing the Queen At The BBC disc, which has Roger singing the final verse of the song. That made me listen to the album version again, and I'm glad I did - it's now one of my favorites from the album, and I really think it could've been a good follow-up single to 'Keep Yourself Alive'.

There are some downsides to the album - the exclusion of 'Mad The Swine', apparently which was supposed to be placed between 'Great King Rat' and 'My Fairy King', the inclusion of the pointless instrumental 'Seven Seas Of Rhye...', and, some might say, 'Jesus' - but overall, the album is strong and while the band do show their influences (Led Zeppelin, The Who, The Beatles) in some instances, there are many original moments on here, and it's a shame that it's started to become forgotten amongst the other Queen albums out there.

L

Lester Burnham 19 June 2005 12:26 · Member since May 2003

You done good, Linda. Glad to see people are receptive to this, especially with the semi-strict rules I came up with...

But, that was a good point about the instrumental 'Seven Seas Of Rhye' that I forgot to mention. Apparently, Queen II was going to start off with 'Seven Seas Of Rhye', making it a sort of "segue" between albums, which didn't follow through for whatever reason, but it did happen with Queen II and Sheer Heart Attack... but that's for another discussion thread!

F

Fenderek 19 June 2005 12:27 · Member since July 2003

It's extremely underrated album IMO. Anyone can put it proudly on the shelf just next to such classics as Led Zeppelin II or Black Sabbath's "Master of Reality". It's an awesome one. Obviously the band was criticised for copying other artist and jumping on the bandwagon, but... were they really? We can agree on that one- it was released much later than it was written... Who knows- maybe it would have been less criticised had it been released in 1971...?

I must say though one thing- as much as I enjoy this record, I think the De Lane Lea cuts sound much better. It's really evident on "Jesus"- demo version is much longer, the solos inside are excellent. Album cut lacks any expression, it's also too "clean" compared to the rest. Doesn't fit IMO, whereas demo version would.

Great King Rat must be one of the most underrated tracks ever. It's just bloody brilliant- I love the rythm and the pace. Melody and structure are also not very obvious; dirty production, sleazy riffs. It's just what rock is all about!

Another forgotten pearl is "Son And Daughter". Heavy riff may be one of the heaviest Brian ever commited to the tape! Sounds very Tony Iommi to me- Black sabbath influence is all over it... Pity they didn't use the arrangement from BBC's session 3. It's even better...

"Liar" is an epic and it just showed band's potential straight from the begining. The bass line is absolutely perfect, it also showed Freddie's voice in the very good light. "Doing All Right" is another beauty, much better than Smile's version. "Modern times Rock'n'roll" is extremely naive, but... that's its beauty!

I don't know why but I'm not very big fan of "My Fairy King". It could work rteally nice on QUEEN II but compared with raw and riff driven tracks like "Son/Daughter" or KYA it just doesn't fit... But that's just my opinion!

The production is weird. I like the band when it sound raw. I guess that's why I love BBC sessions so much. BUT it's too dry and too tight. The album WOULD benefit if they were more "live"- like the BBC cuts. Raw, spontaneous, fresh and... honest...

I love this album very much. Underrated gem, an album that any debuting band would be proud of. Production is the thing that lets it down but the band is at its best.
PS
I love the moment in "Great King Rat" after the little acoustic section when the guitars come in with the heavy chords and the voice follows with "Noooo-no, I'm not gonna tell you, what you already know...". AND THAN after words "I told you once befooooore" is one of the best riffs I've ever heard. Easy, but extremely nice. Pretty much the whole instrumental section on this track is just pure genious. I think this one particular track is in my personal top 10 fav Queen songs...

B

bitesthedust 19 June 2005 12:30 · Member since January 2002

Queen, or Queen 1...is a underrated album in my view. The first 5 tracks all stand out and help make the album a success, if not through recognition but through fan support.

I agree that Keep Yourself Alive didn't get the chart recognition the song deserved, but stood the test of time in terms of future live performances. Doing All Right is another gem, originally performed by Smile and is one of the few songs in the Queen catalogue that is written or co-written by a "third party". A simple yet powerful song.

Great King Rat, My Fairy King & Liar finish off Side 1...King Rat and Liar give an early indication of the powerful rock sound (as does Son And Daughter on Side 2) whilst My Fairy King has always sounded to me at least, in some ways the forerunner to the more harmonious songs like Bring Back That Leroy Brown, '39 and of course, the Bohemian Rhapsody operatic sections. Modern Times Rock 'N' Roll is Roger performing the track full of energy like there's no tomorrow.

As for The Night Comes Down, Jesus & Seven Seas Of Rhye instrumental, I can't say much positive about these tracks as they are the weaker points of the album.

Netherless Queen 1 is classic early Queen - a strong album, a great forerunner to the more spotlighted albums that followed.

B

bitesthedust 19 June 2005 13:08 · Member since January 2002

edit

G

Gunpowder Gelatine 19 June 2005 17:11 · Member since July 2004

Queen is definitely an underrated album amongst fans, and I think that might have to do with the production and the sound - the way it sounds kind of gritty and imperfect. But in my opinion, that's not necessarily bad, just different from how slick the production was on future albums.

To start off, Keep Yourself Alive. I also don't understand why this didn't chart; it's the perfect opener to a debut album. And I love that both Brian and Roger get a line in the middle of the song.

Doing All Right and The Night Comes Down are two songs I think should have gotten more recognition, especially the first. The switch between ballad and full on rocker is one of the best. The Night Comes Down is just an enjoyable, relaxing song and shows the depth of Brian's lyrics right from the start.

But Freddie was Brian's match for lyrics, as evidenced by My Fairy King, one of the first of the intricate, mystical songs and the one that inspired him to be Mercury in the first place! I've even managed to forget about this song along the way, but on another listen, I remember why I liked it in the first place. Freddie's vocals were so clean and it's amazing to compare songs like these at the start of their career to ones in the eighties where his voice has deepened and become sort of smokier.

Another one of these songs from Freddie is Great King Rat and even I tend to forget about this song. But I love when Freddie proves that he can write the heavier rock songs just as well as anyone else.

Liar is another one of Freddie's early great songs. I like the lyrics, love the video and how well Freddie's voice turns from accusing to pleading all in the course of a six minute song.

Modern Times Rock And Roll and Jesus are two songs that I think are decent, but not some of my favorites. Roger was a songwriter that just got consistently better through the years and though his first song is good, it loses something when put next to Brian and Freddie's songs. Jesus I just have a hard time getting into, not sure why.

Son And Daughter - I don't love the lyrics that much, but the guitar is so great and it's even better from the BBC Sessions.

I think instrumental Seven Seas Of Rhye was a good way to wrap up the album and started the linking of the albums up to Sheer Heart Attack.

All in all, it's definitely a strong album that deserves more recognition than it gets! Queen at their heaviest, I think, and a great thing to play for someone who thinks that they were just a disposable pop band.

B

brENsKi 19 June 2005 17:38 · Member since June 2003

it's my seocnd favourite queen album (for those that don't know - my fave is II)

liar - an awesome epic of a song - blending blitzkreig rock and delicate vocal harmony in equal measure.
TNCD - dark (no pun intended) with some great hope in the general feel of the song - one of bri's better tunes
JESUS - i love it! but i love the de lane lea version more - perhaps it should've rocked out like the demo!
Doin' Alright - Love the change of tempo and feel - reminds me (in that concept) of Wings Band On The Run - don't know why
Fairy King - absolutely love it to bits...did FM use Pied Piper, or did the Pied Piper use FM? great stuff....advance warning for the epic that was to follow...Queen II
MTRNR - Roger trashes everything in sight...this is cliche-ridden but clever too!
KYA never used to like this, but it has grown lately, - Freddie and Roger managed to counter each other in the final climax
SAD - no.no no. don't like it, and it's not until lately that i realised why i dislike it...it was the inception of the Brighton Rock solo when done live...and i do hate that whole Bri self indulgence 15-min solo stuff. if you can't hear the Br slo in this then there's something wrong with your ears....

S

Suigi 19 June 2005 18:23 · Member since June 2005

Hmm...I'm going to need to cycle through this one again on the ol' Zen Micro to really make some constructive comments, but I can add a few.

KYA: I enjoy this tune, but if you can find the Long-Lost Retake, it's a better tune.
DA: Kinda slow-paced.
GKR: Thumping. Loud. I like it.
Liar: I feel it's more of a prequel to BoRhap than a good tune on its own, but enjoyable.
MFK: Too fairy-like. Seems kinda out of place on this album.
TNCD: Not really all that enjoyable, too melancholy.
MTRNR: Definitely souding like a classic rocker, and Roger does indeed kick ass.
SaD: Zeppy.
Jesus: Not a big fan of the religious tunes.
SSoR: This is like the curtain raising on the Queen saga, quite portent. Especially with the tune also being played in It's A Beautiful Day (Reprise) on MiH.

And just to tack on one more comment, Mad the Swine just seemed too darn weird for me.

D

djaef 19 June 2005 20:00 · Member since July 2004

The trouble with rock music is that it inevitably 'dates' to some extent, some albums a lot more than others. So if we hear an album made in 1971 (even if it was released in 1973) in 1985 or whatever, it's never going to sound as it would have in the early seventies. Context means a lot in popular muscic.

That said, I first heard "Queen" in 1975, the second Queen album I'd ever heard (after ANATO) and reasonably within context. Even then, I'm insanely jealous of the fans that were around for the first few albums who heard them in both order and context.

Queen is a great debut album, full of promise. It falls short on a few points imo, but its precisely the development of a band that is so exciting. Just look at Queen's first 8 albums and hear the amazing journey... But back to Queen.

Keep Yourself Alive is, as many have already stated, a truly underrated masterpiece. Whether it's the album version, the long lost retake or the BBC sessions version, they all have amazing energy. This should have charted.

The other standouts on this album imo are Great King Rat (Roger's drumming is outstanding), My Fairy King and Liar. But really, the first 6 songs are just wonderful. It's after this the album falls over a little. Modern Times Rock 'n' Roll is a little cliched for my tastes, and while I think Son & Daughter is a very good song, it is one that sounds extremely dated to my ears. Jesus I can't abide at all. Turgid - both in content and form. And SSOR seems a bit bizarre really - a strange way to go out.

Considering Freddie was prancing around in front of a mirror doing Cliff Richard impersonations a year or so before they went into the studios to record this, I think the first two albums in particular really chart the phenomenal growth of Freddie into a fully fledged rock star / genius. His songwriting ability came out of nowhere. Of course this is even more evident on Queen II than the first album, but the signs are there. Just listen to My Fairy King...

But overall, while not a perfect album, it was a bloody great debut.

S

Saint Jiub 19 June 2005 21:49 · Member since July 2001

Overall, I place Queen well into the bottom half of Queen albums.

KYA, GKR, Liar, TNCD have always been favorites (for reasons others have mentioned), but not at the top of my list. The rest of the album is mediocre (for queen standards) IMHO. MFK has particularly been on of my least favorite Queen songs. I tend to think of Freddie's song writing as being a work in progress for the Queen album:

Jesus and GKR (a nursury rhyme) have simplistic lyrics. Liar is a good song, but was heavily reworked by Brian, and of course I have a slightly negative view of MFK.

It was not until Queen II (and the black side) that Freddie's song writing really turned to gold.

D

djaef 19 June 2005 22:34 · Member since July 2004

Rip Van Winkle wrote:
Overall, I place Queen well into the bottom half of Queen albums.

I agree with you for sure, but they did make worse albums :)

If you consider that Queen basically improved dramatically over the first 3 or 4 albums and then continued their development with the next 4, it would be very difficult for the first album to be better than albums 2 through 8 would it not? In that context, it's not really an album that you can equally compare to the others. As a young band's debut album though, it's pretty promising stuff don't you think?

Rip Van Winkle wrote:
MFK has particularly been on of my least favorite Queen songs. I tend to think of Freddie's song writing as being a work in progress for the Queen album.

Definately, his song writing was definately a work in progress. (So was Rogers, and it took him another 15 years to write a decent song :)))))

Freddie made a quantum leap from Queen to Queen II, but I don't think he would have written the black side if not for songs like MFK.

Rip Van Winkle wrote:
Liar is a good song, but was heavily reworked by Brian..

Does that reduce it in any way? I don't care whether Freddie wrote it or in the end it became more of a Mercury/May collaboration (something we never really got enough of). It's still a great song, no?

Rip Van Winkle wrote:
It was not until Queen II (and the black side) that Freddie's song writing really turned to gold.

You sure got that right. :)

N

NJQueenFan 19 June 2005 22:52 · Member since April 2005

Queen is a pretty good debut album. Keep Yourself Alive is, in my opinion, one of their best songs, probably Top 10. Doing Alright and Great King Rat round out the top of the album nicely. My Fairy King and Liar are pretty average Queen songs, but it picks back up greatly with The Night Comes Down, which is really a song that stand out to me in the entire Queen catalogue. Although the first 6 songs on the album are all what I would say is above average for them, I think it end really weakly. Roger's done alot better than Modern Times' Rock and Roll, Son and Daughter is painfully mediocre, and Jese just passes as a decent song. I like the idea of including the intro to Seven seas of Rhye at the end of the album, but kinda wish they would've just included the full thing. Most Queen albums finish up with a high point, but their debut finishes pretty slow and not too good and having Seven Seas of Rhye there would've changed that.

S

Saint Jiub 19 June 2005 23:13 · Member since July 2001

djaef wrote:
Rip Van Winkle wrote:
Overall, I place Queen well into the bottom half of Queen albums.

I agree with you for sure, but they did make worse albums :)

If you consider that Queen basically improved dramatically over the first 3 or 4 albums and then continued their development with the next 4, it would be very difficult for the first album to be better than albums 2 through 8 would it not? In that context, it's not really an album that you can equally compare to the others. As a young band's debut album though, it's pretty promising stuff don't you think?

RVW: I enjoy it - yes

Rip Van Winkle wrote:
MFK has particularly been on of my least favorite Queen songs. I tend to think of Freddie's song writing as being a work in progress for the Queen album.

Definately, his song writing was definately a work in progress. (So was Rogers, and it took him another 15 years to write a decent song :)))))

Freddie made a quantum leap from Queen to Queen II, but I don't think he would have written the black side if not for songs like MFK.

RVW: True

Rip Van Winkle wrote:
Liar is a good song, but was heavily reworked by Brian..

Does that reduce it in any way? I don't care whether Freddie wrote it or in the end it became more of a Mercury/May collaboration (something we never really got enough of). It's still a great song, no?

RVW: yes it is a great song .. I meant to imply that Freddie needed help finishing the song and making it great

Rip Van Winkle wrote:
It was not until Queen II (and the black side) that Freddie's song writing really turned to gold.

You sure got that right. :)

M

Maz 19 June 2005 23:57 · Member since July 2001

I would like to know where some of these songs came from. For instance, we know that Doing All Right was originally recorded by Smile and that Liar is supposedly a re-worked track of Freddie's called "Lover."

But what about the other songs all the album, such as My Fairy King or The Night Comes Down? How many were new compositions of the Queen unit, and how many were essentialy ideas that began with Smile or Ibex/Wreckage?

Lester's Album Discussion Thread - "Queen"

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