1. The Russian winter of 1941/42 was one of the worst in history - temperatures of -40 every day. German soldiers died in their sleep, deisel froze in their tanks and food was scarce. Germans were not issued with winter clothing.
2. Russian military casualties 13.6 miliion, civillian 6.7 million.
3. USAF had 30,000 aircrew killed over Europe before Operation Overlord in June 1944.
People should realise it's not a question of numbers - it was a joint effort. The Russians did indeed bear the brunt of the action but they would not have been able to do this without the help of American and British aid. The North Sea convoys were crucial to Russia's war effort.
Also, there were the campaigns in North Africa, The Balkans, Sicily and Italy all waged by the Western Allies. These tied up many Axis divisions before the Normandy landings - so it's unfair to say that the USA did nothing in Europe until 1944.
Each nation that rose up against Hitler's regime should just accept that they were one cog in the Allied machine. In the 6 years of fighting they all played their part and we should be thankfull that they were able to succeed.
Thread
Posts in chronological order
well said bob the shrek
I agree with everything you write.
However I was not saying that the US did nothing, only that it is not right to claim that they saved Europe from Hitler and that the other nations merely helped them.
The second world war was a huge disaster for everyone involved. I feel that is something that too often gets lost when it is talked about today.
I agree with everything you write.
However I was not saying that the US did nothing, only that it is not right to claim that they saved Europe from Hitler and that the other nations merely helped them.
The second world war was a huge disaster for everyone involved. I feel that is something that too often gets lost when it is talked about today.
However I was not saying that the US did nothing, only that it is not right to claim that they saved Europe from Hitler and that the other nations merely helped them.
Ditto- US helped a lot, Russia had a huge imapct on whate happened- but add England, Poland (we broke the bloody Enigma code, were an influential force during Battle of Britain; general Maczek in Holland, Anhem, Tobruk, Mount Cassino in Italy and so on...) It was a collective effort... Claiming that USA saved Europe is just ridiculous... HELPED- yes. SAVED- definitely not...
What is really sad is what happened with Europe (and the whole world) AFTER WWII...
1. The Russian winter of 1941/42 was one of the worst in history - temperatures of -40 every day.
Depends on the part of Russia where they were at the moment, actually. I can tell you that usual winter's temperature in Central European part of Russia is -20 or a little bit lower, but in Siberia it can be lower than -50 at the same time!
So in the Ukraine or in South of Russia winter's temperatures were much higher than -40. I think it could be about -10 or -5.
'Russian winter' is a myth mostly, than true, winter in Norway, Sweden, Finland can be more colder than in Russia (except our Northern territories, but there not many people lives). Of course it was important factor, but not that important as it states sometimes.
Shocking. I think it's disgusting that in this day and age people are thinking like this. It's barbaric.
gee, isnt it sad and wrong that 2 teens had to die because of the way they lived.....
However I was not saying that the US did nothing, only that it is not right to claim that they saved Europe from Hitler and that the other nations merely helped them.
Ditto- US helped a lot, Russia had a huge imapct on whate happened- but add England, Poland (we broke the bloody Enigma code, were an influential force during Battle of Britain; general Maczek in Holland, Anhem, Tobruk, Mount Cassino in Italy and so on...) It was a collective effort... Claiming that USA saved Europe is just ridiculous... HELPED- yes. SAVED- definitely not...
What is really sad is what happened with Europe (and the whole world) AFTER WWII...
I doubt Britain could hold for much longer without American aid. And with Britain out of the equation, things would look pretty bad in Europe.
You can conclude this stupid arguement by saying that if either one of the major allies (including Russia & the US, of course) weren't fighting, the chances of winning the war would be very low.
As you know, the Nazis were not the only army on the other side.
im trying to figure out who said the usa saved europe????
if they did save europe, than thats news to me, usa history books state that the victory in WW2 was an allied victory
if they did save europe, than thats news to me, usa history books state that the victory in WW2 was an allied victory
Even though it's a sin America does not execute gays. Only for a sin that kills another person.
The bible says man should not lie down with another man but we tolerate the gays choice to sin. We don't give them the rights that the sodomite countries of Canada, Holland, Belgium and Spain do.
Calling them 'sinners' and referring to 'sodomite countries' is exactly the intollerant behaviour that marks organized religion. It's their choice, not yours, you don't have anything to do with their lives. If the churches in this world would finally realize that and accept it, this world would be a better place.
Amen. It's the mideval "we're better than group X so let us be motivated by hatred and intolerance because our God (who is better than your God) says so" mentality.
I guess they still had a sense of humanity WHEN THERE WAS A DEMOCRAT IN THE WHITEHOUSE!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai
Democrat in office
Even though it's a sin America does not execute gays. Only for a sin that kills another person.
The bible says man should not lie down with another man but we tolerate the gays choice to sin. We don't give them the rights that the sodomite countries of Canada, Holland, Belgium and Spain do.
Calling them 'sinners' and referring to 'sodomite countries' is exactly the intollerant behaviour that marks organized religion. It's their choice, not yours, you don't have anything to do with their lives. If the churches in this world would finally realize that and accept it, this world would be a better place.
Amen. It's the mideval "we're better than group X so let us be motivated by hatred and intolerance because our God (who is better than your God) says so" mentality.
Isn't it the same God? Each monotheistic religion only has a different name for God.
Even though it's a sin America does not execute gays. Only for a sin that kills another person.
The bible says man should not lie down with another man but we tolerate the gays choice to sin. We don't give them the rights that the sodomite countries of Canada, Holland, Belgium and Spain do.
Calling them 'sinners' and referring to 'sodomite countries' is exactly the intollerant behaviour that marks organized religion. It's their choice, not yours, you don't have anything to do with their lives. If the churches in this world would finally realize that and accept it, this world would be a better place.
Amen. It's the mideval "we're better than group X so let us be motivated by hatred and intolerance because our God (who is better than your God) says so" mentality.
Isn't it the same God? Each monotheistic religion only has a different name for God.
Yes, but unfortunately, not everyone understands this.
I'm really glad to see you posting, Guy! I was wondering what happened to you...! Did you get my email on your birthday?
Even though it's a sin America does not execute gays. Only for a sin that kills another person.
The bible says man should not lie down with another man but we tolerate the gays choice to sin. We don't give them the rights that the sodomite countries of Canada, Holland, Belgium and Spain do.
Calling them 'sinners' and referring to 'sodomite countries' is exactly the intollerant behaviour that marks organized religion. It's their choice, not yours, you don't have anything to do with their lives. If the churches in this world would finally realize that and accept it, this world would be a better place.
Amen. It's the mideval "we're better than group X so let us be motivated by hatred and intolerance because our God (who is better than your God) says so" mentality.
Isn't it the same God? Each monotheistic religion only has a different name for God.
Yes, but unfortunately, not everyone understands this.
I'm really glad to see you posting, Guy! I was wondering what happened to you...! Did you get my email on your birthday?
Thanks, and no, I didn't get it...
Booo...
Well, come onto MSN some time! We need to catch up. :)
Well, come onto MSN some time! We need to catch up. :)