Serry - you beat me by a few minutes!
Pussy - the idea here is not to list every single release, picture disc, or compilation. The idea is to list musically unique tracks only.
If you have the following tracks:
Show Must Go On
Album Version Innuendo: Parlophone CDP 79 5887 2
LP Vinyl Edit Innuendo: Parlophone PCSD 115
Karaoke Instrumental Japan Toshiba EMI TOLW - 3249.50
1998 eYe Full Instrumental Electronic Arts DDE05501 101S
Greatest Flix II Video Intro Greatest Flix I & II: Pioneer PLMPD 01171
Promotional Video Greatest Flix I & II: Pioneer PLMPD 01171
There is MUSICALLY no need to purchase the disc you suggest (other than collectable purposes).
As Serry suggests - I originally thought an ultimate discography would be out of the ways and means of most fans (for example who realistically can afford c£2,000 for Rhapsody in blue?), but I think all fans can trace those musically different tracks much more easilly - hence the title "Ultimate Collection".
Thread
Posts in chronological order
Oberon62AU: I think we are talking at cross purposes here.
First the Status Quo LP was released 20 years before Innuendo, and certainly by the time the Queen LP was released, album technology had advanced so much as to almost make your argument redundant. Certainly, almost all classical LP's (particularly on the Deutch Gramophone label) were able to squeeze more than 60 mins of quality music onto a single LP, but I digress, as that misses the point.
My point is that I am against cutting any art form to fit a restricted space. Therefore a double LP of uncut tracks is better, in my mind at least, than a single disc of bastardised edits.
For example, who would cut the Mona Lisa, to fit a smaller frame, or a classic (lengthy) movie like "Titanic" to fit a single-sided disc? At least in the days of early DVD's movies like "Jackie Brown" and "Casino" were "flippers" in that both sides of the DVD were utilised - rather than edit the film to fit.
Financially, the raw costs to produce a double LP are (relatively) not that more expensive to produce than a single disc. So to use this as an excuse is not really that creditable. (Besides some non-album B-sides could have been considered if there were not enough tracks to justify a 2 LP set).
Don't get me wrong, I am not arguing against you, and I do accept your point as valid. However, I do not believe, (and never will) that CUTTING musical tracks to fit an LP is justified - WHATEVER the reason.
First the Status Quo LP was released 20 years before Innuendo, and certainly by the time the Queen LP was released, album technology had advanced so much as to almost make your argument redundant. Certainly, almost all classical LP's (particularly on the Deutch Gramophone label) were able to squeeze more than 60 mins of quality music onto a single LP, but I digress, as that misses the point.
My point is that I am against cutting any art form to fit a restricted space. Therefore a double LP of uncut tracks is better, in my mind at least, than a single disc of bastardised edits.
For example, who would cut the Mona Lisa, to fit a smaller frame, or a classic (lengthy) movie like "Titanic" to fit a single-sided disc? At least in the days of early DVD's movies like "Jackie Brown" and "Casino" were "flippers" in that both sides of the DVD were utilised - rather than edit the film to fit.
Financially, the raw costs to produce a double LP are (relatively) not that more expensive to produce than a single disc. So to use this as an excuse is not really that creditable. (Besides some non-album B-sides could have been considered if there were not enough tracks to justify a 2 LP set).
Don't get me wrong, I am not arguing against you, and I do accept your point as valid. However, I do not believe, (and never will) that CUTTING musical tracks to fit an LP is justified - WHATEVER the reason.
Sorry Alex - In a sense, I thought you answered your own questions - but here goes...
"you point Hitman as a promo teaser tape version AND Brian vocal version"
Yes they are both the same. As you are aware, the teaser version is an extract of the full Brian May demo, and I do not think the full Brian May version has ever surfaced - yet.
"...a complete version of Delilah?"
I know what you mean here (before some smart ass replies it exists on Innuendo) but - Yes there is.
Also remember that because of the way music is recorded, all Queen tracks exist as both full Karaoke and accapella versions, but I thought this would be too tedious to write each time, so a full Innuendo instrumental may be a nice treat!
"you point Hitman as a promo teaser tape version AND Brian vocal version"
Yes they are both the same. As you are aware, the teaser version is an extract of the full Brian May demo, and I do not think the full Brian May version has ever surfaced - yet.
"...a complete version of Delilah?"
I know what you mean here (before some smart ass replies it exists on Innuendo) but - Yes there is.
Also remember that because of the way music is recorded, all Queen tracks exist as both full Karaoke and accapella versions, but I thought this would be too tedious to write each time, so a full Innuendo instrumental may be a nice treat!
I too, have brought this up before but have been shot down about it. Where did Oberon and I get this notion that they edited the album to get the best out of the sound response?
Btw John, on your statement about flipper dvd discs being the better because they're not edited... wrong. The actual content isn't any different to other discs. Flipper discs held 4.7GB on each side, just like the dvd-5 disc format does. However, they quickly got rid of this because they (movie studios) could pay a little more for a bigger, single-sided 8.5GB sized disc. And it was better for consumers as they liked not having to get up half-way through to turn it over!
What you also have to realise is that these dual layer discs that hold the film on one side are actually two of those old flipper-sides discs stuck together to equal twice the space. Btw, I'd better make this clear, I don't mean two literal flipper discs stuck together! They're two 4.7GB layers stuck together to form a close to double amount of space. That's why they call them dual layer and warn of a pause during the middle of the film, because the laser switches intensity at that point and penetrates the first layer to reach the second.
Plus, as I've been planning a film for the last 4 years, I can tell you that there's very little real difference between encodings anyway, unless it's a ridiculous size difference. My teacher at college even discussed this with us during our readings of current and past media last week. I'm sure we're not getting lied to. :)
Btw, how much does it cost to mass produce a double-LP rather than the single disc version they released for Innuendo? I guess we could be talking millions of units, though I can't be entirely sure. Maybe only a few hundred thousand units.
Obviously it did seem strange to edit those tracks for an LP release. But they did. Not great, but not the end of the world.
What does you mean about full karaoke and accapella versions? They're all separate tracks anyway, so all one has to do is turn off the lead vocal parts and instant instrumental version. Of course, for a proper karaoke version, they'd remix everything so that things sound better without the vocal. That's mandatory, btw.
Peace,
Adam.
Btw John, on your statement about flipper dvd discs being the better because they're not edited... wrong. The actual content isn't any different to other discs. Flipper discs held 4.7GB on each side, just like the dvd-5 disc format does. However, they quickly got rid of this because they (movie studios) could pay a little more for a bigger, single-sided 8.5GB sized disc. And it was better for consumers as they liked not having to get up half-way through to turn it over!
What you also have to realise is that these dual layer discs that hold the film on one side are actually two of those old flipper-sides discs stuck together to equal twice the space. Btw, I'd better make this clear, I don't mean two literal flipper discs stuck together! They're two 4.7GB layers stuck together to form a close to double amount of space. That's why they call them dual layer and warn of a pause during the middle of the film, because the laser switches intensity at that point and penetrates the first layer to reach the second.
Plus, as I've been planning a film for the last 4 years, I can tell you that there's very little real difference between encodings anyway, unless it's a ridiculous size difference. My teacher at college even discussed this with us during our readings of current and past media last week. I'm sure we're not getting lied to. :)
Btw, how much does it cost to mass produce a double-LP rather than the single disc version they released for Innuendo? I guess we could be talking millions of units, though I can't be entirely sure. Maybe only a few hundred thousand units.
Obviously it did seem strange to edit those tracks for an LP release. But they did. Not great, but not the end of the world.
Also remember that because of the way music is recorded, all Queen tracks exist as both full Karaoke and accapella versions, but I thought this would be too tedious to write each time, so a full Innuendo instrumental may be a nice treat!
What does you mean about full karaoke and accapella versions? They're all separate tracks anyway, so all one has to do is turn off the lead vocal parts and instant instrumental version. Of course, for a proper karaoke version, they'd remix everything so that things sound better without the vocal. That's mandatory, btw.
Peace,
Adam.
Adam: What does you mean about full karaoke and accapella versions? They're all separate tracks anyway, so all one has to do is turn off the lead vocal parts and instant instrumental version. Of course, for a proper karaoke version, they'd remix everything so that things sound better without the vocal. That's mandatory, btw.
Adam - you know that, and I know that, but the point is that some people don't. Therefore, I was just informing that a "dedicated" instrumental (or karaoke) version of the lead "Innuendo" track "exists" - even if it has not been recorded "as such" yet.
For example: if all the mules in the world were extinct, as long as both donkeys and horses exist - no problem.
It is the same with most popular music. Almost EVERY Queen track, theoretically at least, could be released as an instrumental version. Likewise, the same could be said for purely accapella versions also.
Finally, as you also suggest, because the original individual elements survive on seperate tracks, it is also theoretically possible to create new extended 12" versions (or hybrids like in the case of the FM collection), without the need of new "recordings" - mash-ups, effects or whatever.
So my point is - even without the release of rarities, it is still possible to create CDs of new stuff.
As I said, it may seem very elementary stuff to you, but when some newbie asks me "is there an instrumental version of "Killer Queen" - or "Love of My Life?", if I return the above reply, they usually ask next, "Why have you not included this in your "Ultimate Collection" threads?".
That, then becomes a very legitimate question. Therefore, it is far easier to say:
"...because of the way music is recorded, all Queen tracks exist as both full Karaoke and accapella versions, but I thought this would be too tedious to write each time, so a full Innuendo instrumental may be a nice treat!"
Adam - you know that, and I know that, but the point is that some people don't. Therefore, I was just informing that a "dedicated" instrumental (or karaoke) version of the lead "Innuendo" track "exists" - even if it has not been recorded "as such" yet.
For example: if all the mules in the world were extinct, as long as both donkeys and horses exist - no problem.
It is the same with most popular music. Almost EVERY Queen track, theoretically at least, could be released as an instrumental version. Likewise, the same could be said for purely accapella versions also.
Finally, as you also suggest, because the original individual elements survive on seperate tracks, it is also theoretically possible to create new extended 12" versions (or hybrids like in the case of the FM collection), without the need of new "recordings" - mash-ups, effects or whatever.
So my point is - even without the release of rarities, it is still possible to create CDs of new stuff.
As I said, it may seem very elementary stuff to you, but when some newbie asks me "is there an instrumental version of "Killer Queen" - or "Love of My Life?", if I return the above reply, they usually ask next, "Why have you not included this in your "Ultimate Collection" threads?".
That, then becomes a very legitimate question. Therefore, it is far easier to say:
"...because of the way music is recorded, all Queen tracks exist as both full Karaoke and accapella versions, but I thought this would be too tedious to write each time, so a full Innuendo instrumental may be a nice treat!"
Just being a bit pedantic here - Metallica's song is "Enter Sandman", and not "Enter The Sandman". And I believe the cover of SCC first appeared on the "Electra's 40th Anniversary" (Rubaiyat) double CD set in 1990. Though you may already know this.
John, I've got a couple of questions on the "Innuendo" material if you don't mind:
where you say Bijou:
Original Demo: Two songs snapped together - Unreleased
does this mean the guitar sections and vocal section were planned as separate songs as in the case of Breakthru?
also, where "Hybrid" versions of songs such as Innuendo:
Full 12" Video/Explosive Hybrid - Unreleased: Home Mini-Disc
are noted, are these "hybrids" pieced together by you or other fans from the incomplete individual versions, or are these stand-alone, "separate" recordings of the "complete" tracks?
where you say Bijou:
Original Demo: Two songs snapped together - Unreleased
does this mean the guitar sections and vocal section were planned as separate songs as in the case of Breakthru?
also, where "Hybrid" versions of songs such as Innuendo:
Full 12" Video/Explosive Hybrid - Unreleased: Home Mini-Disc
are noted, are these "hybrids" pieced together by you or other fans from the incomplete individual versions, or are these stand-alone, "separate" recordings of the "complete" tracks?
I got a different demo from Delilah than the hits of innuendo version. It has some different lyrics. You can add that to the list
John, I've found between my stuff a The Cross Blue Rock Special - 9 mins long, VCD, aired on TV, interviews and snippets from New Dark Ages and Millionaire promo videos (I'm not sure about the last one but it looks like some live perfo filmed for the vid)
Any clue of the date of this??
Sorry Alex, I don't. Do you have a station identification?
> I got a different demo from Delilah than the hits of innuendo version. It has some different lyrics. You can add that to the list
Would you mind listing at least a couple of those different lyrics?
Would you mind listing at least a couple of those different lyrics?
Hello John , thanks as always for your detailed writings , you might like to include this - unreleased BBC Radio 1 , Monday , 25th November 1991 , 1 hour tribute documentry broadcast 9 P.M , hosted by mike read . Also while I'm here , on the 12" explosive version of "Innuendo" , is the explosion at the end from "In the lap of the gods revisited " ? Also is "Assasin" a demo / early version of "The Hitman" or a completely different track , thanks in advance .
Hello John , thanks as always for your detailed writings , you might like to include this - unreleased BBC Radio 1 , Monday , 25th November 1991 , 1 hour tribute documentry broadcast 9 P.M , hosted by mike read . Also while I'm here , on the 12" explosive version of "Innuendo" , is the explosion at the end from "In the lap of the gods revisited " ? Also is "Assasin" a demo / early version of "The Hitman" or a completely different track , thanks in advance .
Thanks for the compliments, as long as you are out there to enjoy, it further inspires me to write!
BBC Radio 1 , Monday , 25th November 1991 , 1 hour tribute documentry broadcast 9 P.M.
Wasn't this a repeat of the BBC "Queen For A Day" Miracle interview - also available on CD from Hollywood records? (Queen Collection: Hollywood HR-61407-2).
The Assasin demo is not related to the Hitman, (but I like your thinking!)
Finally, to be honest, I have never thought about that explosion coming from another track - so I do not know, (perhaps other 'zoners can help out here?). However, unlike his famous "Thunderbolt", God did NOT get a credit on this album, so it's definitely not from him!
Alex: I think this looks like snaps from the EPK, but, it was only available on VHS, so someone must have converted this for you.
BBC Radio 1 , Monday , 25th November 1991 , 1 hour tribute documentry broadcast 9 P.M.
Wasn't this a repeat of the BBC "Queen For A Day" Miracle interview - also available on CD from Hollywood records? (Queen Collection: Hollywood HR-61407-2).
Hi, I recorded this on the night...It wasn't a repeat of queen for a day from may 1989,but the Queen story from the start, with lots of then rare items ie: the first full airing of the larry lurex i can hear music track and also clips from the 1977 and 1989 interviews, sadly no longer in my collection.
Hope this helps!
Wasn't this a repeat of the BBC "Queen For A Day" Miracle interview - also available on CD from Hollywood records? (Queen Collection: Hollywood HR-61407-2).
Hi, I recorded this on the night...It wasn't a repeat of queen for a day from may 1989,but the Queen story from the start, with lots of then rare items ie: the first full airing of the larry lurex i can hear music track and also clips from the 1977 and 1989 interviews, sadly no longer in my collection.
Hope this helps!
> I got a different demo from Delilah than the hits of innuendo version. It has some different lyrics. You can add that to the list
Would you mind listing at least a couple of those different lyrics?
You make me smile when I'm just about to die
That's sweet, but are you going post the lyrics or not?
:-P