[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Music Man wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Mr.Jingles wrote: [/QUOTENAME]I agree that Green Day might not know much about politics, but neither do politicians.
After all, wasn't our president a C average college student who spent many of his years drinking booze and snorting coke with his buddies. I'm sure that Dubya did as much (or probably even more) dope as Billie Joe, Mike, or Tre.[/QUOTE]
Okay, I can't argue with that too much.[/QUOTE]
Excuse me, but John Lennon, Bob Geldof and Bono did NOT attend college and are more informed, aware and active in politics, social causes than most politicians.
Billie Joe is VERY informed about this administration. So is Dave Grohl for that matter who supported Kerry in the run for President, and did the double Foo Fighter Album ''In Your Honor'' also about the current Bush administration and trying to inform today's youth about their right to vote and the idiocy of Bush and the Iraqi war.
That's close minded and pigeon headed to assume that just because one doens'y have a college degree, that they are not informed and active in politics and social issues/causes...or for that matter, that just because someone did attend college (such as Bush) that they know what they are doing...which he does NOT).
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[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Arlene R. Weiss wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Music Man wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Mr.Jingles wrote: [/QUOTENAME]I agree that Green Day might not know much about politics, but neither do politicians.
After all, wasn't our president a C average college student who spent many of his years drinking booze and snorting coke with his buddies. I'm sure that Dubya did as much (or probably even more) dope as Billie Joe, Mike, or Tre.[/QUOTE]
Okay, I can't argue with that too much.[/QUOTE]
Excuse me, but John Lennon, Bob Geldof and Bono did NOT attend college and are more informed, aware and active in politics, social causes than most politicians.
Billie Joe is VERY informed about this administration. So is Dave Grohl for that matter who supported Kerry in the run for President, and did the double Foo Fighter Album ''In Your Honor'' also about the current Bush administration and trying to inform today's youth about their right to vote and the idiocy of Bush and the Iraqi war.
That's close minded and pigeon headed to assume that just because one doens'y have a college degree, that they are not informed and active in politics and social issues/causes...or for that matter, that just because someone did attend college (such as Bush) that they know what they are doing...which he does NOT).[/QUOTE]
Well, my main point was not the fact that they lacked educations. That was only a supporting point that no doubt promotes my claim.
I still have no reason to believe that Billie Joe Armstrong is so well-informed to make a clear, accurate analytical opinion on politics, so all I would like is some closure on that. Heck, I'm not even so sure that Lennon, Geldof, or even Bono are qualified to make such opinions. Perhaps they all are, perhaps none are.
As for being active in politics and social causes, I can in no way contest that. It's pervadingly clear that each of these people was active. But as you are quick to point out with Bush, some people are just not qualified to give such opinions on politics to be consumed by the mass public merely because they are celebrities.
Honestly, I think celebrities should just stay out of politics altogether, no matter how qualified they are. Their words are far too powerful to the ignorance of the population. They have nothing to gain by making an accurate statement, but rather a popular one, as opposed to politicians, whose position is elastic to the accuracy of their statements.
Also, on a related note, there is a MAJOR difference between being "informed, aware, and active" and actually knowing how to deal with these things they are "informed, aware, and active" in.
After all, wasn't our president a C average college student who spent many of his years drinking booze and snorting coke with his buddies. I'm sure that Dubya did as much (or probably even more) dope as Billie Joe, Mike, or Tre.[/QUOTE]
Okay, I can't argue with that too much.[/QUOTE]
Excuse me, but John Lennon, Bob Geldof and Bono did NOT attend college and are more informed, aware and active in politics, social causes than most politicians.
Billie Joe is VERY informed about this administration. So is Dave Grohl for that matter who supported Kerry in the run for President, and did the double Foo Fighter Album ''In Your Honor'' also about the current Bush administration and trying to inform today's youth about their right to vote and the idiocy of Bush and the Iraqi war.
That's close minded and pigeon headed to assume that just because one doens'y have a college degree, that they are not informed and active in politics and social issues/causes...or for that matter, that just because someone did attend college (such as Bush) that they know what they are doing...which he does NOT).[/QUOTE]
Well, my main point was not the fact that they lacked educations. That was only a supporting point that no doubt promotes my claim.
I still have no reason to believe that Billie Joe Armstrong is so well-informed to make a clear, accurate analytical opinion on politics, so all I would like is some closure on that. Heck, I'm not even so sure that Lennon, Geldof, or even Bono are qualified to make such opinions. Perhaps they all are, perhaps none are.
As for being active in politics and social causes, I can in no way contest that. It's pervadingly clear that each of these people was active. But as you are quick to point out with Bush, some people are just not qualified to give such opinions on politics to be consumed by the mass public merely because they are celebrities.
Honestly, I think celebrities should just stay out of politics altogether, no matter how qualified they are. Their words are far too powerful to the ignorance of the population. They have nothing to gain by making an accurate statement, but rather a popular one, as opposed to politicians, whose position is elastic to the accuracy of their statements.
Also, on a related note, there is a MAJOR difference between being "informed, aware, and active" and actually knowing how to deal with these things they are "informed, aware, and active" in.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Music Man wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Arlene R. Weiss wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Music Man wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Mr.Jingles wrote: [/QUOTENAME]I agree that Green Day might not know much about politics, but neither do politicians.
After all, wasn't our president a C average college student who spent many of his years drinking booze and snorting coke with his buddies. I'm sure that Dubya did as much (or probably even more) dope as Billie Joe, Mike, or Tre.[/QUOTE]
Okay, I can't argue with that too much.[/QUOTE]
Excuse me, but John Lennon, Bob Geldof and Bono did NOT attend college and are more informed, aware and active in politics, social causes than most politicians.
Billie Joe is VERY informed about this administration. So is Dave Grohl for that matter who supported Kerry in the run for President, and did the double Foo Fighter Album ''In Your Honor'' also about the current Bush administration and trying to inform today's youth about their right to vote and the idiocy of Bush and the Iraqi war.
That's close minded and pigeon headed to assume that just because one doens'y have a college degree, that they are not informed and active in politics and social issues/causes...or for that matter, that just because someone did attend college (such as Bush) that they know what they are doing...which he does NOT).[/QUOTE]
Well, my main point was not the fact that they lacked educations. That was only a supporting point that no doubt promotes my claim.
I still have no reason to believe that Billie Joe Armstrong is so well-informed to make a clear, accurate analytical opinion on politics, so all I would like is some closure on that. Heck, I'm not even so sure that Lennon, Geldof, or even Bono are qualified to make such opinions. Perhaps they all are, perhaps none are.
As for being active in politics and social causes, I can in no way contest that. It's pervadingly clear that each of these people was active. But as you are quick to point out with Bush, some people are just not qualified to give such opinions on politics to be consumed by the mass public merely because they are celebrities.
Honestly, I think celebrities should just stay out of politics altogether, no matter how qualified they are. Their words are far too powerful to the ignorance of the population. They have nothing to gain by making an accurate statement, but rather a popular one, as opposed to politicians, whose position is elastic to the accuracy of their statements.
Also, on a related note, there is a MAJOR difference between being "informed, aware, and active" and actually knowing how to deal with these things they are "informed, aware, and active" in.[/QUOTE]
Sometimes, in the case of Geldof and Bono, they DO know how to deal with these issues which is why the 2005 G8 Summit leaders doubles aid to Africa to $50 Billion by the year 2010 and cancelled $40 Billion in debt ro some 18 nations.
In the case of protest singers like Billie Joe or say, Coldplay, their raising the public's awareness, and making the public NOT be apathetic to major political and worls/social ills and issues IS important, because it makes the public AWARE and causes the general public to get involved themselves, or VOTE.
Musicians like Lennon and Dylan in the 1960's caused the teenagers in the nation to do more than trip and tune out...and instead, GO TO THE POLLS, VOTE, and make a difference. Those very teens that were drafted at just 18 years old and forced to fight in Vietnam...
...yet by law in this nation did not legally have the right to vote until they turned 21 years old, and have a say about the war they were drafted into....rallied at Capitol Hill and protested enough nationwide to get the legal USA voting age LOWERED to 18 yaesr of age.
And so now, eneryone from 18 up has the right to VOTE and make a difference and have a say in laws that affect them.
Why? Because t
After all, wasn't our president a C average college student who spent many of his years drinking booze and snorting coke with his buddies. I'm sure that Dubya did as much (or probably even more) dope as Billie Joe, Mike, or Tre.[/QUOTE]
Okay, I can't argue with that too much.[/QUOTE]
Excuse me, but John Lennon, Bob Geldof and Bono did NOT attend college and are more informed, aware and active in politics, social causes than most politicians.
Billie Joe is VERY informed about this administration. So is Dave Grohl for that matter who supported Kerry in the run for President, and did the double Foo Fighter Album ''In Your Honor'' also about the current Bush administration and trying to inform today's youth about their right to vote and the idiocy of Bush and the Iraqi war.
That's close minded and pigeon headed to assume that just because one doens'y have a college degree, that they are not informed and active in politics and social issues/causes...or for that matter, that just because someone did attend college (such as Bush) that they know what they are doing...which he does NOT).[/QUOTE]
Well, my main point was not the fact that they lacked educations. That was only a supporting point that no doubt promotes my claim.
I still have no reason to believe that Billie Joe Armstrong is so well-informed to make a clear, accurate analytical opinion on politics, so all I would like is some closure on that. Heck, I'm not even so sure that Lennon, Geldof, or even Bono are qualified to make such opinions. Perhaps they all are, perhaps none are.
As for being active in politics and social causes, I can in no way contest that. It's pervadingly clear that each of these people was active. But as you are quick to point out with Bush, some people are just not qualified to give such opinions on politics to be consumed by the mass public merely because they are celebrities.
Honestly, I think celebrities should just stay out of politics altogether, no matter how qualified they are. Their words are far too powerful to the ignorance of the population. They have nothing to gain by making an accurate statement, but rather a popular one, as opposed to politicians, whose position is elastic to the accuracy of their statements.
Also, on a related note, there is a MAJOR difference between being "informed, aware, and active" and actually knowing how to deal with these things they are "informed, aware, and active" in.[/QUOTE]
Sometimes, in the case of Geldof and Bono, they DO know how to deal with these issues which is why the 2005 G8 Summit leaders doubles aid to Africa to $50 Billion by the year 2010 and cancelled $40 Billion in debt ro some 18 nations.
In the case of protest singers like Billie Joe or say, Coldplay, their raising the public's awareness, and making the public NOT be apathetic to major political and worls/social ills and issues IS important, because it makes the public AWARE and causes the general public to get involved themselves, or VOTE.
Musicians like Lennon and Dylan in the 1960's caused the teenagers in the nation to do more than trip and tune out...and instead, GO TO THE POLLS, VOTE, and make a difference. Those very teens that were drafted at just 18 years old and forced to fight in Vietnam...
...yet by law in this nation did not legally have the right to vote until they turned 21 years old, and have a say about the war they were drafted into....rallied at Capitol Hill and protested enough nationwide to get the legal USA voting age LOWERED to 18 yaesr of age.
And so now, eneryone from 18 up has the right to VOTE and make a difference and have a say in laws that affect them.
Why? Because t
I got FOUR out OF ten!!!
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Arlene R. Weiss wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Music Man wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Arlene R. Weiss wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Music Man wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Mr.Jingles wrote: [/QUOTENAME]I agree that Green Day might not know much about politics, but neither do politicians.
After all, wasn't our president a C average college student who spent many of his years drinking booze and snorting coke with his buddies. I'm sure that Dubya did as much (or probably even more) dope as Billie Joe, Mike, or Tre.[/QUOTE]
Okay, I can't argue with that too much.[/QUOTE]
Excuse me, but John Lennon, Bob Geldof and Bono did NOT attend college and are more informed, aware and active in politics, social causes than most politicians.
Billie Joe is VERY informed about this administration. So is Dave Grohl for that matter who supported Kerry in the run for President, and did the double Foo Fighter Album ''In Your Honor'' also about the current Bush administration and trying to inform today's youth about their right to vote and the idiocy of Bush and the Iraqi war.
That's close minded and pigeon headed to assume that just because one doens'y have a college degree, that they are not informed and active in politics and social issues/causes...or for that matter, that just because someone did attend college (such as Bush) that they know what they are doing...which he does NOT).[/QUOTE]
Well, my main point was not the fact that they lacked educations. That was only a supporting point that no doubt promotes my claim.
I still have no reason to believe that Billie Joe Armstrong is so well-informed to make a clear, accurate analytical opinion on politics, so all I would like is some closure on that. Heck, I'm not even so sure that Lennon, Geldof, or even Bono are qualified to make such opinions. Perhaps they all are, perhaps none are.
As for being active in politics and social causes, I can in no way contest that. It's pervadingly clear that each of these people was active. But as you are quick to point out with Bush, some people are just not qualified to give such opinions on politics to be consumed by the mass public merely because they are celebrities.
Honestly, I think celebrities should just stay out of politics altogether, no matter how qualified they are. Their words are far too powerful to the ignorance of the population. They have nothing to gain by making an accurate statement, but rather a popular one, as opposed to politicians, whose position is elastic to the accuracy of their statements.
Also, on a related note, there is a MAJOR difference between being "informed, aware, and active" and actually knowing how to deal with these things they are "informed, aware, and active" in.[/QUOTE]
Sometimes, in the case of Geldof and Bono, they DO know how to deal with these issues which is why the 2005 G8 Summit leaders doubles aid to Africa to $50 Billion by the year 2010 and cancelled $40 Billion in debt ro some 18 nations.[/QUOTE]
Right, so it seems that Bono and Geldof have a righteous cause under them. But nobody seems to contest that. There is no political faction they are supporting or denouncing by supporting aid to Africa.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Arlene R. Weiss wrote: [/QUOTENAME]
In the case of protest singers like Billie Joe or say, Coldplay, their raising the public's awareness, and making the public NOT be apathetic to major political and worls/social ills and issues IS important, because it makes the public AWARE and causes the general public to get involved themselves, or VOTE.[/QUOTE]
Alright, I'll give you that getting the public to involve themselves in politics is a good thing. But really, they are probably doing more harm than good. If I counted how many times I've heard "I hate Bush," I'd be in six figures by now. If I counted how many times people have given reasonable explanations for this, I'd safely assess t
After all, wasn't our president a C average college student who spent many of his years drinking booze and snorting coke with his buddies. I'm sure that Dubya did as much (or probably even more) dope as Billie Joe, Mike, or Tre.[/QUOTE]
Okay, I can't argue with that too much.[/QUOTE]
Excuse me, but John Lennon, Bob Geldof and Bono did NOT attend college and are more informed, aware and active in politics, social causes than most politicians.
Billie Joe is VERY informed about this administration. So is Dave Grohl for that matter who supported Kerry in the run for President, and did the double Foo Fighter Album ''In Your Honor'' also about the current Bush administration and trying to inform today's youth about their right to vote and the idiocy of Bush and the Iraqi war.
That's close minded and pigeon headed to assume that just because one doens'y have a college degree, that they are not informed and active in politics and social issues/causes...or for that matter, that just because someone did attend college (such as Bush) that they know what they are doing...which he does NOT).[/QUOTE]
Well, my main point was not the fact that they lacked educations. That was only a supporting point that no doubt promotes my claim.
I still have no reason to believe that Billie Joe Armstrong is so well-informed to make a clear, accurate analytical opinion on politics, so all I would like is some closure on that. Heck, I'm not even so sure that Lennon, Geldof, or even Bono are qualified to make such opinions. Perhaps they all are, perhaps none are.
As for being active in politics and social causes, I can in no way contest that. It's pervadingly clear that each of these people was active. But as you are quick to point out with Bush, some people are just not qualified to give such opinions on politics to be consumed by the mass public merely because they are celebrities.
Honestly, I think celebrities should just stay out of politics altogether, no matter how qualified they are. Their words are far too powerful to the ignorance of the population. They have nothing to gain by making an accurate statement, but rather a popular one, as opposed to politicians, whose position is elastic to the accuracy of their statements.
Also, on a related note, there is a MAJOR difference between being "informed, aware, and active" and actually knowing how to deal with these things they are "informed, aware, and active" in.[/QUOTE]
Sometimes, in the case of Geldof and Bono, they DO know how to deal with these issues which is why the 2005 G8 Summit leaders doubles aid to Africa to $50 Billion by the year 2010 and cancelled $40 Billion in debt ro some 18 nations.[/QUOTE]
Right, so it seems that Bono and Geldof have a righteous cause under them. But nobody seems to contest that. There is no political faction they are supporting or denouncing by supporting aid to Africa.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Arlene R. Weiss wrote: [/QUOTENAME]
In the case of protest singers like Billie Joe or say, Coldplay, their raising the public's awareness, and making the public NOT be apathetic to major political and worls/social ills and issues IS important, because it makes the public AWARE and causes the general public to get involved themselves, or VOTE.[/QUOTE]
Alright, I'll give you that getting the public to involve themselves in politics is a good thing. But really, they are probably doing more harm than good. If I counted how many times I've heard "I hate Bush," I'd be in six figures by now. If I counted how many times people have given reasonable explanations for this, I'd safely assess t
I think Arlene and Music Man need to exchange phone numbers.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Mr.Jingles wrote: [/QUOTENAME]I think Arlene and Music Man need to exchange phone numbers.[/QUOTE]
''People will say we're in love''....LOL!
''People will say we're in love''....LOL!
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Arlene R. Weiss wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Mr.Jingles wrote: [/QUOTENAME]I think Arlene and Music Man need to exchange phone numbers.[/QUOTE]
''People will say we're in love''....''Hello Clarice!'' (as quoted by Hannibal Lechter!)
LOL![/QUOTE]
''People will say we're in love''....''Hello Clarice!'' (as quoted by Hannibal Lechter!)
LOL![/QUOTE]
You know, I really don't like talking on the phone. It's just so awkward for me. We can exchange addresses though. Oh wait...
I still stand on my viewpoint that I think it IS good for celebrities to get involved with politics, social issues...if only to make the public aware at the least, and for these celebrities to take actual ACTION at the most.
That's what rock has always been about. And music in general too, like folk and blues. Think of musicians who wrote and sang about the signs of the times like Woody Guthrie, Pete Seegar, Peter Paul and Mary.
And...I still think that Billie Joe and Green Day are trying their best to take this seriously and stay informed and raise awareness.
The skit he did about George Bush was to throw a little levity to the situation.
But the album, ''American Idiot'' has NO levity and IS an indictment of Bush and the Iraqui War which Green Day are well informed about and against.
That's what rock has always been about. And music in general too, like folk and blues. Think of musicians who wrote and sang about the signs of the times like Woody Guthrie, Pete Seegar, Peter Paul and Mary.
And...I still think that Billie Joe and Green Day are trying their best to take this seriously and stay informed and raise awareness.
The skit he did about George Bush was to throw a little levity to the situation.
But the album, ''American Idiot'' has NO levity and IS an indictment of Bush and the Iraqui War which Green Day are well informed about and against.
Umm, I believe you two are over 25 years apart, if I'm not mistaken!
Fantastic discussion.
Fantastic discussion.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Arlene R. Weiss wrote: [/QUOTENAME]I still stand on my viewpoint that I think it IS good for celebrities to get involved with politics, social issues...if only to make the public aware at the least, and for these celebrities to take actual ACTION at the most.
That's what rock has always been about. And music in general too, like folk and blues. Think of musicians who wrote and sang about the signs of the times like Woody Guthrie, Pete Seegar, Peter Paul and Mary.
And...I still think that Billie Joe and Green Day are trying their best to take this seriously and stay informed and raise awareness.
The skit he did about George Bush was to throw a little levity to the situation.
But the album, ''American Idiot'' has NO levity and IS an indictment of Bush and the Iraqui War which Green Day are well informed about and against.[/QUOTE]
It's good for EVERYONE to get involved in politics, I'll agree. However, I am not so sure they should take sides on bipartisan issues, as I believe their leverage in the situation far outweighs their qualifications for providing such leverage.
Just because I was placed into the mainstream music industry because of a ridiculous, silly punk album with a title representing its immaturity does not mean that I am the most educated person on President Bush's foreign policies.
Now, if I were a famous celebrity, I would address issues that EVERYONE would agree upon - topics that are seldom debated. "There are not enough voters getting out to the polls, so vote." "Voters need to educate themselves on political issues, so read your newspaper."
A bad example of this would be, "My name is George W. Bush, but my friends call me asshole."
But I do agree, however, that one of the great aspects of rock and roll is its ability to take on any issue that might be going through the musician's mind and present it aurally. However, when the musician becomes a celebrity icon, I think it is dangerous for him to develop such strong ideals upon anything, lest he influence an entire culture of people to believe in something that none of them really knows anything about, this culture supporting the cause out of it simply being a trend.
On the other hand, I find it ridiculous to restrict a celebrity from vocalizing his own viewpoint, so it is perfectly acceptable for him to do this. However, I really think it would be in the best interests of the country should none of them speak anything on such debatable issues.
I even do realize that, sometimes, celebrities can be well informed about the issues. But they often fail to convey this information properly. Like I have said before, the general public doesn't weigh the words of celebrities in the same way that they read a textbook or a newspaper.
Celebrity persuasion causes trends, not education.
That's what rock has always been about. And music in general too, like folk and blues. Think of musicians who wrote and sang about the signs of the times like Woody Guthrie, Pete Seegar, Peter Paul and Mary.
And...I still think that Billie Joe and Green Day are trying their best to take this seriously and stay informed and raise awareness.
The skit he did about George Bush was to throw a little levity to the situation.
But the album, ''American Idiot'' has NO levity and IS an indictment of Bush and the Iraqui War which Green Day are well informed about and against.[/QUOTE]
It's good for EVERYONE to get involved in politics, I'll agree. However, I am not so sure they should take sides on bipartisan issues, as I believe their leverage in the situation far outweighs their qualifications for providing such leverage.
Just because I was placed into the mainstream music industry because of a ridiculous, silly punk album with a title representing its immaturity does not mean that I am the most educated person on President Bush's foreign policies.
Now, if I were a famous celebrity, I would address issues that EVERYONE would agree upon - topics that are seldom debated. "There are not enough voters getting out to the polls, so vote." "Voters need to educate themselves on political issues, so read your newspaper."
A bad example of this would be, "My name is George W. Bush, but my friends call me asshole."
But I do agree, however, that one of the great aspects of rock and roll is its ability to take on any issue that might be going through the musician's mind and present it aurally. However, when the musician becomes a celebrity icon, I think it is dangerous for him to develop such strong ideals upon anything, lest he influence an entire culture of people to believe in something that none of them really knows anything about, this culture supporting the cause out of it simply being a trend.
On the other hand, I find it ridiculous to restrict a celebrity from vocalizing his own viewpoint, so it is perfectly acceptable for him to do this. However, I really think it would be in the best interests of the country should none of them speak anything on such debatable issues.
I even do realize that, sometimes, celebrities can be well informed about the issues. But they often fail to convey this information properly. Like I have said before, the general public doesn't weigh the words of celebrities in the same way that they read a textbook or a newspaper.
Celebrity persuasion causes trends, not education.