Today marks the first anniversary of the London bombings, looking at the faces of the victims and knowing all too well what it's like to travel to London each day on the trains and tube, how do you not view Muslims with suspicion, and fall into the racist trap?
Since September 11th 2001 our world has changed completely, the wars that seemed far away were brought to our doors (rightly or wrongly) and we are now faced with terrorism in the UK on a scale not seen since the 1970's IRA threats.
How do you go about your daily business without viewing people from Muslim countries with suspicion? I know I can't, and I like (or at least used) to think of myself as non racist, but now I view far too many with suspicion and sometimes rage.
I know this is stupid to do so and I know I will probably never see a terrorist in the flesh, but somehow I still can't get over this preconception that I have to view all Muslims with suspicion.
So has their attacks on western soil effectively backfired, our we now all the more ready to fight back? do we not view more and more people as possible threats? I don't know, it's a sad situation and I have no answer, sure the war was wrong and both the US and the UK have contributed much to making this happen, but we are not totally to blame, there is a much bigger story here than simply oil, and CIA involvement in other countries politics.
In the end we are all losers.
Sorry to make a rather negative post but today of all days we (at least in the UK) should think a little about the bigger picture.
Thread
Posts in chronological order
Oh yeah, shit!!!!!!!!
First of all, I have to say... My deepest simpathys to the familys of the people that died in the bombings.
R.I.P
I also want to say, that this world is so evil, you are not safe anymore. I doubt it will ever be a safe place, ever again....
First of all, I have to say... My deepest simpathys to the familys of the people that died in the bombings.
R.I.P
I also want to say, that this world is so evil, you are not safe anymore. I doubt it will ever be a safe place, ever again....
I live in NYC. I'm used to seeing people of different races and religions all around. Never fazed me. If anything, I value the uniqueness and have taught my daughter to respect and admire those who will stick to their traditional values despite how 'modern' the world becomes.
But to your point, yes, since 9/11 I have been wary of Muslims. I am especially leery of the growing number of women in my neighborhood who are wearing the traditional Muslim headscarves. They walk down major streets with everything covered but their eyes. I find myself growing angry when I see them and when my daughter asks why I feel that way, I can't explain it. What am I teaching her? That because the most vocal Muslims are anti-West we should fear/dislike/fight them all? Were all Germans Nazis?
I think the answer to your question is a logical one in theory but cannot be easily practiced. IMO, not becoming a racist depends on all sides cooperating equally. If non-extremist Muslims feel as non-Muslims do about terrorism they should denounce it. Loudly. We so often wait for clerics to come out and say Bin Laden and the attacks around the world are inexcusable. Sometimes they do, but often in brief exchanges and subtle tones. Unless you're listening hard, you're not going to hear it. And who would put such energy into listening to someone they already see as a hater?
Hate breeds hate and while we must be vigilant in our fight for freedom (though without another debacle like Iraq), I don't believe tensions between "us" and "them" will lessen any time soon. Especially when you consider how a cartoon can turn an ordinary day into a day - month - of rioting and more.
But to your point, yes, since 9/11 I have been wary of Muslims. I am especially leery of the growing number of women in my neighborhood who are wearing the traditional Muslim headscarves. They walk down major streets with everything covered but their eyes. I find myself growing angry when I see them and when my daughter asks why I feel that way, I can't explain it. What am I teaching her? That because the most vocal Muslims are anti-West we should fear/dislike/fight them all? Were all Germans Nazis?
I think the answer to your question is a logical one in theory but cannot be easily practiced. IMO, not becoming a racist depends on all sides cooperating equally. If non-extremist Muslims feel as non-Muslims do about terrorism they should denounce it. Loudly. We so often wait for clerics to come out and say Bin Laden and the attacks around the world are inexcusable. Sometimes they do, but often in brief exchanges and subtle tones. Unless you're listening hard, you're not going to hear it. And who would put such energy into listening to someone they already see as a hater?
Hate breeds hate and while we must be vigilant in our fight for freedom (though without another debacle like Iraq), I don't believe tensions between "us" and "them" will lessen any time soon. Especially when you consider how a cartoon can turn an ordinary day into a day - month - of rioting and more.
I understand what you're saying. I actually have a Muslim friend in school though and she's lovely.
Since when is "Muslim" considered a "race"?
How? Common sense?
Peace out.
Peace out.
[echooo]
Look up the criminal statistics in your country and calculate your risk of being murdered by a native Christian for money or be run over by a drunk British driver compared to your risk of being killed by a terror attack with an Islamistic background. Of course, if you are killed because someone needs money for drugs you won't make it on national TV news.
I am not downplaying your fears - it would be stupid to ignore the danger but we should be aware of the role of the media shaping our view of the world. There is always an agenda behind TV and newspaper news - even if it's only the price they can ask for commercials.
You would NOT hold white Christians in general accountable if your neighbour is killed by a white Christian person but then the news would not say : the killer was of white Christian background...
The racism is in us before the crime happens. It is so much easier to be a racist than not to be a racist. The fear of the stranger is so deeply rooted in our collective subconscious - it is very easy to appeal to this fear. We overcome racism by education and with our intelligence but our instincts work against that and we feel threatened so much more when a "stranger" killed one of "us". The only way not to become a racist is educating ourselves and not falling for the cheap "answers" we are offered by media and certain politicians. There are no "rogue" countries or races.
I am not downplaying your fears - it would be stupid to ignore the danger but we should be aware of the role of the media shaping our view of the world. There is always an agenda behind TV and newspaper news - even if it's only the price they can ask for commercials.
You would NOT hold white Christians in general accountable if your neighbour is killed by a white Christian person but then the news would not say : the killer was of white Christian background...
The racism is in us before the crime happens. It is so much easier to be a racist than not to be a racist. The fear of the stranger is so deeply rooted in our collective subconscious - it is very easy to appeal to this fear. We overcome racism by education and with our intelligence but our instincts work against that and we feel threatened so much more when a "stranger" killed one of "us". The only way not to become a racist is educating ourselves and not falling for the cheap "answers" we are offered by media and certain politicians. There are no "rogue" countries or races.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<font color=pink>The Millionaire Waltz wrote: [/QUOTENAME]Since when is "Muslim" considered a "race"?[/QUOTE]
Good question, it's a religion not a bloody race. Shows how much mr Togg nows about the subject.
Good question, it's a religion not a bloody race. Shows how much mr Togg nows about the subject.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<b><font color="green">The Fairy King wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<font color=pink>The Millionaire Waltz wrote: [/QUOTENAME]Since when is "Muslim" considered a "race"?[/QUOTE]
Good question, it's a religion not a bloody race. Shows how much mr Togg nows about the subject. [/QUOTE]
Err, I don't think I ever said it was a race did I. shows how well you two can read!
Good question, it's a religion not a bloody race. Shows how much mr Togg nows about the subject. [/QUOTE]
Err, I don't think I ever said it was a race did I. shows how well you two can read!
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<b><font color="green">The Fairy King wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<font color=pink>The Millionaire Waltz wrote: [/QUOTENAME]Since when is "Muslim" considered a "race"?[/QUOTE]
Good question, it's a religion not a bloody race. Shows how much mr Togg nows about the subject. [/QUOTE]
Islam is the religion. Muslim is the person practicing the religion.
Good question, it's a religion not a bloody race. Shows how much mr Togg nows about the subject. [/QUOTE]
Islam is the religion. Muslim is the person practicing the religion.
I live in the New York metro area and even after September 11 the typical New Yorker wiseguy scared me far more than the average Muslim.
Everytime I hear some douchebag says something like:
- WAT DA FUCKS DA MATTA WIT CHA!!
I feel more wary than when I cross paths with a person wearing a turban.
Everytime I hear some douchebag says something like:
- WAT DA FUCKS DA MATTA WIT CHA!!
I feel more wary than when I cross paths with a person wearing a turban.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Mr.Jingles wrote: [/QUOTENAME]I live in the New York metro area and even after September 11 the typical New Yorker wiseguy scared me far more than the average Muslim.
Everytime I hear some douchebag says something like:
- WAT DA FUCKS DA MATTA WIT CHA!!
I feel more wary than when I cross paths with a person wearing a turban.[/QUOTE]
Id say thats freaky alright,I remember when I was in Belfast when the troubles were still goin on real bad and It was so scary,hardly anyone out on the streets and the ones that were either had balaclavas or rushin to get home,scary shit!
Everytime I hear some douchebag says something like:
- WAT DA FUCKS DA MATTA WIT CHA!!
I feel more wary than when I cross paths with a person wearing a turban.[/QUOTE]
Id say thats freaky alright,I remember when I was in Belfast when the troubles were still goin on real bad and It was so scary,hardly anyone out on the streets and the ones that were either had balaclavas or rushin to get home,scary shit!
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]YourValentine wrote: [/QUOTENAME]Look up the criminal statistics in your country and calculate your risk of being murdered by a native Christian for money or be run over by a drunk British driver compared to your risk of being killed by a terror attack with an Islamistic background. Of course, if you are killed because someone needs money for drugs you won't make it on national TV news.
I am not downplaying your fears - it would be stupid to ignore the danger but we should be aware of the role of the media shaping our view of the world. There is always an agenda behind TV and newspaper news - even if it's only the price they can ask for commercials.
You would NOT hold white Christians in general accountable if your neighbour is killed by a white Christian person but then the news would not say : the killer was of white Christian background...
The racism is in us before the crime happens. It is so much easier to be a racist than not to be a racist. The fear of the stranger is so deeply rooted in our collective subconscious - it is very easy to appeal to this fear. We overcome racism by education and with our intelligence but our instincts work against that and we feel threatened so much more when a "stranger" killed one of "us". The only way not to become a racist is educating ourselves and not falling for the cheap "answers" we are offered by media and certain politicians. There are no "rogue" countries or races.
[/QUOTE]
Good point, I am at least certain that my fears, if you call them that, are not rational, it is more a case of becoming more aware of the fact that danger lurks not just in dark corners, I think it's all tied up with becoming a father in the last five years, you become much more aware of the world and it's dangers when you have little people to look after, when it's just you, you adopt a more relaxed attitude, however when you seen families blown apart you can't help but stop and think how it would effect you. hence you view more things with suspicion.
It is not really a question as such I am just interested to hear peoples views on the matter, but as we can see it's already been lowered by the numpties here that can't get there little heads around the English language! pity I was hoping for an interesting debate rather than the usual...
I am not downplaying your fears - it would be stupid to ignore the danger but we should be aware of the role of the media shaping our view of the world. There is always an agenda behind TV and newspaper news - even if it's only the price they can ask for commercials.
You would NOT hold white Christians in general accountable if your neighbour is killed by a white Christian person but then the news would not say : the killer was of white Christian background...
The racism is in us before the crime happens. It is so much easier to be a racist than not to be a racist. The fear of the stranger is so deeply rooted in our collective subconscious - it is very easy to appeal to this fear. We overcome racism by education and with our intelligence but our instincts work against that and we feel threatened so much more when a "stranger" killed one of "us". The only way not to become a racist is educating ourselves and not falling for the cheap "answers" we are offered by media and certain politicians. There are no "rogue" countries or races.
[/QUOTE]
Good point, I am at least certain that my fears, if you call them that, are not rational, it is more a case of becoming more aware of the fact that danger lurks not just in dark corners, I think it's all tied up with becoming a father in the last five years, you become much more aware of the world and it's dangers when you have little people to look after, when it's just you, you adopt a more relaxed attitude, however when you seen families blown apart you can't help but stop and think how it would effect you. hence you view more things with suspicion.
It is not really a question as such I am just interested to hear peoples views on the matter, but as we can see it's already been lowered by the numpties here that can't get there little heads around the English language! pity I was hoping for an interesting debate rather than the usual...
I know what you mean: being unable to protect your child is the worst that can happen to you.
As 20th century (born) individuals we think we should be in control of what happens to us and our loved ones. Incidents like the attacks from last year make it very obvious that it's virtually impossible to be in control of your environment. The randomness of the attacks make you a possible victim no matter what your personal attitude towards Afghanistan, Iraq etc. might be.
But what does it have to do wíth racism? Any statistics will show you that children are abused or killed by people they know, in most cases relatives. When you read about kids being abused by relatives or killed by their own mother you won't worry it will happen to your children because you are in control of your environment (or so you think). But victims of terror attacks are random and that is what makes you fear and fear causes hatred. Racism is just a form of fear turned into hatred. You say it's not rational but the origin of fear is not rational in many cases, it is instinct. We all have to reconcile our instinctive reactions with the civilized environment we live in. It's just when this civilized society is disrupted by attacks like last year (or war or natural catastrophes) we have a problem to control our instinctive fears.
As 20th century (born) individuals we think we should be in control of what happens to us and our loved ones. Incidents like the attacks from last year make it very obvious that it's virtually impossible to be in control of your environment. The randomness of the attacks make you a possible victim no matter what your personal attitude towards Afghanistan, Iraq etc. might be.
But what does it have to do wíth racism? Any statistics will show you that children are abused or killed by people they know, in most cases relatives. When you read about kids being abused by relatives or killed by their own mother you won't worry it will happen to your children because you are in control of your environment (or so you think). But victims of terror attacks are random and that is what makes you fear and fear causes hatred. Racism is just a form of fear turned into hatred. You say it's not rational but the origin of fear is not rational in many cases, it is instinct. We all have to reconcile our instinctive reactions with the civilized environment we live in. It's just when this civilized society is disrupted by attacks like last year (or war or natural catastrophes) we have a problem to control our instinctive fears.