[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<font color="indigo"><b>friedchicken \m/ wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]eedodededededea wrote: [/QUOTENAME]Well, I think that the problem is that Religion and the Church have very little in common. Church is an organisation which makes people...[/QUOTE]
this one is quite insulting, but oh well. uhm... lemme see... you can't really say that God is a tyrant or whatever, since you're not IN the religion. let's not use God as a term. let's use Supreme Being, because it's not only Catholics/Christians who have a God. Okay. so, if people did create God, then how were people created? they can't just come out of nowhere. but anyway, going back to the topic, "the church wasn't meant to love the people and to help them." The church, my dear friend, is Jesus' creation. it's his "spouse", as some people call her. It's a religious institution. so in one way or another, religion and church are related.
sorry, just tell me if i didn't make sense. :)[/QUOTE]
1) of course I didn't want this post to be insulting :)
2) I do not reject (is this a right word?) a God as a really existing Supreme Being - mathematicians found out this year that the possibility of God's existance is equal to 62 or 68 % and I trust them :)
3) there are enough theories explaining how humanity appeared without God's help ( I say humanity, but not the universe)
4) i didn't say religion and church are not related - I said they have little in common
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[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<font color="indigo"><b>friedchicken \m/ wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<b><font color=666600>Music Man wrote: [/QUOTENAME]To all gay people:
1) Don't become Catholic.
2) In the event that you are already Catholic, convert to another religion that is tolerant of your homosexuality.
3) If you are Catholic, and you refuse to convert, I really don't care what happens to your sex life. It's your loss.
Problem solved.[/QUOTE]
common misconception: gays ARE tolerated by Catholics. it's just this bishop who shows too much of his intolerance. it's just" unnatural" to be gay because God didn't create Adam and Steve, or Ashley and Eve.
sorry if you find my post weird. [/QUOTE]
It's nearly what i wanted to say - Catholic community does NOT ALWAYS mean Official Catholic church.
1) Don't become Catholic.
2) In the event that you are already Catholic, convert to another religion that is tolerant of your homosexuality.
3) If you are Catholic, and you refuse to convert, I really don't care what happens to your sex life. It's your loss.
Problem solved.[/QUOTE]
common misconception: gays ARE tolerated by Catholics. it's just this bishop who shows too much of his intolerance. it's just" unnatural" to be gay because God didn't create Adam and Steve, or Ashley and Eve.
sorry if you find my post weird. [/QUOTE]
It's nearly what i wanted to say - Catholic community does NOT ALWAYS mean Official Catholic church.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]eedodededededea wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<font color="indigo"><b>friedchicken \m/ wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]eedodededededea wrote: [/QUOTENAME]Well, I think that the problem is that Religion and the Church have very little in common. Church is an organisation which makes people...[/QUOTE]
this one is quite insulting, but oh well. uhm... lemme see... you can't really say that God is a tyrant or whatever, since you're not IN the religion. let's not use God as a term. let's use Supreme Being, because it's not only Catholics/Christians who have a God. Okay. so, if people did create God, then how were people created? they can't just come out of nowhere. but anyway, going back to the topic, "the church wasn't meant to love the people and to help them." The church, my dear friend, is Jesus' creation. it's his "spouse", as some people call her. It's a religious institution. so in one way or another, religion and church are related.
sorry, just tell me if i didn't make sense. :)[/QUOTE]
1) of course I didn't want this post to be insulting :)
2) I do not reject (is this a right word?) a God as a really existing Supreme Being - mathematicians found out this year that the possibility of God's existance is equal to 62 or 68 % and I trust them :)
3) there are enough theories explaining how humanity appeared without God's help ( I say humanity, but not the universe)
4) i didn't say religion and church are not related - I said they have little in common[/QUOTE]
woops. sorry, i kinda misunderstood that part. my bad. -.-'
this one is quite insulting, but oh well. uhm... lemme see... you can't really say that God is a tyrant or whatever, since you're not IN the religion. let's not use God as a term. let's use Supreme Being, because it's not only Catholics/Christians who have a God. Okay. so, if people did create God, then how were people created? they can't just come out of nowhere. but anyway, going back to the topic, "the church wasn't meant to love the people and to help them." The church, my dear friend, is Jesus' creation. it's his "spouse", as some people call her. It's a religious institution. so in one way or another, religion and church are related.
sorry, just tell me if i didn't make sense. :)[/QUOTE]
1) of course I didn't want this post to be insulting :)
2) I do not reject (is this a right word?) a God as a really existing Supreme Being - mathematicians found out this year that the possibility of God's existance is equal to 62 or 68 % and I trust them :)
3) there are enough theories explaining how humanity appeared without God's help ( I say humanity, but not the universe)
4) i didn't say religion and church are not related - I said they have little in common[/QUOTE]
woops. sorry, i kinda misunderstood that part. my bad. -.-'
oh! before i forget! i hopw that you guys don't see me as the "catholic extremist girl from QZ" after all the posts i made... i mean, if that was how you guys saw me. :) peace doods! :)
@ Fried Chicken
Of course we don't. We are just having a debate, that's all. And Kudos to all of us for keeping civil and adult-like (something most politicans can't manage to do).
Yes, there are parallels between the Old Testament and the Gilgamesh Epic...in fact those same parallels can be drawn with several other creation stories from other areas of the world. Gilgamesh is older than the Old Testament though, by about a thousand years. Which leaves open the question of, since the parallels are basically verbatim, is the Old Testament original, or was it copied from Gilgamesh?
You are right about the Bible being passed down into the oral tradition before being written down, so was Gilgamesh. But, if you want to trust implicitly everything that the Old Testament says, that's where I have a problem. Have you ever played that game, telephone? Where one person whipsers something into another person's ear, and it goes around the cicle, until the last person has to share what they heard, and it's never anything like what the original message was. Same thing applies to things passed in the oral tradition, especially things passed down after hundreds of years. Events get dropped or added, or made bigger.
As for the New Testament, it was written by several different people, and within the same story there are several different versions, depending on who you are reading. Plus, the hypocracies are just too much for me.
I'm not neccessarily anti-religion, I hope I don't come across as the anti-religion QZer...I'm just anti-organized religion because I don't neccessarily think it's beneficial, and in most cases has caused much more harm than good. If someone wants to believe in God, fine...but don't shove it down my throat and at least try and do it with an open mind. In my experience (and this is only mine), the most religious people I've known were also the most hypocritical because they forgot the whole "Judge not lest ye be judged" thing. They also tended to be the most intolerant. I decided a long time ago that if I had to be that to be a Christian, then I was just fine not being one...at least my conscious is clean.
Of course we don't. We are just having a debate, that's all. And Kudos to all of us for keeping civil and adult-like (something most politicans can't manage to do).
Yes, there are parallels between the Old Testament and the Gilgamesh Epic...in fact those same parallels can be drawn with several other creation stories from other areas of the world. Gilgamesh is older than the Old Testament though, by about a thousand years. Which leaves open the question of, since the parallels are basically verbatim, is the Old Testament original, or was it copied from Gilgamesh?
You are right about the Bible being passed down into the oral tradition before being written down, so was Gilgamesh. But, if you want to trust implicitly everything that the Old Testament says, that's where I have a problem. Have you ever played that game, telephone? Where one person whipsers something into another person's ear, and it goes around the cicle, until the last person has to share what they heard, and it's never anything like what the original message was. Same thing applies to things passed in the oral tradition, especially things passed down after hundreds of years. Events get dropped or added, or made bigger.
As for the New Testament, it was written by several different people, and within the same story there are several different versions, depending on who you are reading. Plus, the hypocracies are just too much for me.
I'm not neccessarily anti-religion, I hope I don't come across as the anti-religion QZer...I'm just anti-organized religion because I don't neccessarily think it's beneficial, and in most cases has caused much more harm than good. If someone wants to believe in God, fine...but don't shove it down my throat and at least try and do it with an open mind. In my experience (and this is only mine), the most religious people I've known were also the most hypocritical because they forgot the whole "Judge not lest ye be judged" thing. They also tended to be the most intolerant. I decided a long time ago that if I had to be that to be a Christian, then I was just fine not being one...at least my conscious is clean.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]CMU HistoryGirl wrote: [/QUOTENAME]@ Fried Chicken
Of course we don't. We are just having a debate, that's all. And Kudos to all of us for keeping civil and adult-like (something most politicans can't manage to do).
Yes, there are parallels between the Old Testament and the Gilgamesh Epic...in fact those same parallels can be drawn with several other creation stories from other areas of the world. Gilgamesh is older than the Old Testament though, by about a thousand years. Which leaves open the question of, since the parallels are basically verbatim, is the Old Testament original, or was it copied from Gilgamesh?
You are right about the Bible being passed down into the oral tradition before being written down, so was Gilgamesh. But, if you want to trust implicitly everything that the Old Testament says, that's where I have a problem. Have you ever played that game, telephone? Where one person whipsers something into another person's ear, and it goes around the cicle, until the last person has to share what they heard, and it's never anything like what the original message was. Same thing applies to things passed in the oral tradition, especially things passed down after hundreds of years. Events get dropped or added, or made bigger.
As for the New Testament, it was written by several different people, and within the same story there are several different versions, depending on who you are reading. Plus, the hypocracies are just too much for me.
I'm not neccessarily anti-religion, I hope I don't come across as the anti-religion QZer...I'm just anti-organized religion because I don't neccessarily think it's beneficial, and in most cases has caused much more harm than good. If someone wants to believe in God, fine...but don't shove it down my throat and at least try and do it with an open mind. In my experience (and this is only mine), the most religious people I've known were also the most hypocritical because they forgot the whole "Judge not lest ye be judged" thing. They also tended to be the most intolerant. I decided a long time ago that if I had to be that to be a Christian, then I was just fine not being one...at least my conscious is clean. [/QUOTE]
First of all, thanks. :)
ah... good point. but... i watched this discovery channel documentary on the... early asian civilizations (mesopotamia)... i think. oh yeah, it was! anyways, you said something about the bible copying the epic? no, they were both actually documented in people's heads at the same time. i don't have a specific answer for the spin doctors of the bible, but all they say is that whatever is written the bible is sacred and whatever people know can't be "spin doctor-ized" because God protected whatever he taught in the old testament. well, at least that's what i know.
i get your point on the... anti-organized religion. i myself dislike those who are too preachy and they actually turn out to be hypocrites themselves. but you know, if someone shoves the whole religion thing down your throat, don't digest it. do you get what i mean? hehe... but anyway, not all organized religion people are THAT uptight. i bet you already knew taht, but anyway, here's my answer. :) you know, you don't NECESSARILY have to be christian to go to heaven. as long as you did good stuff and you followed the natural law, then you can go to heaven.
Of course we don't. We are just having a debate, that's all. And Kudos to all of us for keeping civil and adult-like (something most politicans can't manage to do).
Yes, there are parallels between the Old Testament and the Gilgamesh Epic...in fact those same parallels can be drawn with several other creation stories from other areas of the world. Gilgamesh is older than the Old Testament though, by about a thousand years. Which leaves open the question of, since the parallels are basically verbatim, is the Old Testament original, or was it copied from Gilgamesh?
You are right about the Bible being passed down into the oral tradition before being written down, so was Gilgamesh. But, if you want to trust implicitly everything that the Old Testament says, that's where I have a problem. Have you ever played that game, telephone? Where one person whipsers something into another person's ear, and it goes around the cicle, until the last person has to share what they heard, and it's never anything like what the original message was. Same thing applies to things passed in the oral tradition, especially things passed down after hundreds of years. Events get dropped or added, or made bigger.
As for the New Testament, it was written by several different people, and within the same story there are several different versions, depending on who you are reading. Plus, the hypocracies are just too much for me.
I'm not neccessarily anti-religion, I hope I don't come across as the anti-religion QZer...I'm just anti-organized religion because I don't neccessarily think it's beneficial, and in most cases has caused much more harm than good. If someone wants to believe in God, fine...but don't shove it down my throat and at least try and do it with an open mind. In my experience (and this is only mine), the most religious people I've known were also the most hypocritical because they forgot the whole "Judge not lest ye be judged" thing. They also tended to be the most intolerant. I decided a long time ago that if I had to be that to be a Christian, then I was just fine not being one...at least my conscious is clean. [/QUOTE]
First of all, thanks. :)
ah... good point. but... i watched this discovery channel documentary on the... early asian civilizations (mesopotamia)... i think. oh yeah, it was! anyways, you said something about the bible copying the epic? no, they were both actually documented in people's heads at the same time. i don't have a specific answer for the spin doctors of the bible, but all they say is that whatever is written the bible is sacred and whatever people know can't be "spin doctor-ized" because God protected whatever he taught in the old testament. well, at least that's what i know.
i get your point on the... anti-organized religion. i myself dislike those who are too preachy and they actually turn out to be hypocrites themselves. but you know, if someone shoves the whole religion thing down your throat, don't digest it. do you get what i mean? hehe... but anyway, not all organized religion people are THAT uptight. i bet you already knew taht, but anyway, here's my answer. :) you know, you don't NECESSARILY have to be christian to go to heaven. as long as you did good stuff and you followed the natural law, then you can go to heaven.
Another good reply by Fried Chicken.
If you are really only 15, I'm tremendously happy that there is hope in the world for the next generation to have some form of brains!
If you are really only 15, I'm tremendously happy that there is hope in the world for the next generation to have some form of brains!
^again, thanks a bunch, CMU HistoryGirl! i really am only 15. :)