It's very hard to say...
I can find GREAT examples from each of them!
Freddie - The March of The Black Queen - all those songs with insane lyrics, and FANTASTIC music/backing music.
Brian - Some Day One Day, Long Away, Dragon Attack - There are so many GREAT, GREAT songs with incredible, emotional music and backing vocals etc.
Roger - Fight From The Inside, I'm In Love With My Car, These Are The Days of Our Lives - He writes very different songs, and the lyrics are often fantastic!
John - You And I - One of my absolute fov. songs! I makes me wanna dance! =D
But all in all, I'd say Freddie and Brian - they have written most of my fav. songs...
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Posts in chronological order
About Freddie as chief songwriter: true, but keep in mind that for most of his songs the lyrics were co-written with somebody else (and we're discussing lyrics in this topic): 'Miracle' is a four-way split in the words, 'Worth It' too has input from all of them, so do 'Party' and 'Kashoggi's', and I'm quite sure 'Hitman' has contributions by all four on lyrics (even if Freddie, probably, directed in a similar way to Bowie on 'Under Pressure').
Fred did start off the lyrics in 'Innuendo', but Roger completed them. 'Slightly Mad' is lyrically an unacreditted collaboration between Freddie and Peter Straker. So I'm trying to think and perhaps the only Queen songs after 'Princes' for which Mercury penned the totality of lyrics were 'Winter's Tale', 'Don't Try So Hard', 'Bijou' and perhaps 'All God's People' (assuming that Mike's contribution was restricted to the music, something I'm not sure about). For the rest, he was always assisted by someone else, even before the "Queen credit" era: Brian helped out with some lines in 'Friends Will Be Friends' and 'A Hard Life'.
Still, as you said, Fred was Queen's dominant songwriter, but his input was still more musical (and especially melodic) than lyrical.
About 'Made In Heaven' (the album), that one's more a compilation than an actual album. The only truly post-Innuendo material is limited to three songs, but then of course we can see that he was the creative force: off those three tracks, he wrote one and co-wrote the other two.
Fred did start off the lyrics in 'Innuendo', but Roger completed them. 'Slightly Mad' is lyrically an unacreditted collaboration between Freddie and Peter Straker. So I'm trying to think and perhaps the only Queen songs after 'Princes' for which Mercury penned the totality of lyrics were 'Winter's Tale', 'Don't Try So Hard', 'Bijou' and perhaps 'All God's People' (assuming that Mike's contribution was restricted to the music, something I'm not sure about). For the rest, he was always assisted by someone else, even before the "Queen credit" era: Brian helped out with some lines in 'Friends Will Be Friends' and 'A Hard Life'.
Still, as you said, Fred was Queen's dominant songwriter, but his input was still more musical (and especially melodic) than lyrical.
About 'Made In Heaven' (the album), that one's more a compilation than an actual album. The only truly post-Innuendo material is limited to three songs, but then of course we can see that he was the creative force: off those three tracks, he wrote one and co-wrote the other two.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<font color=brianJM>RollingBowieQueen wrote: [/QUOTENAME]Wow, I was ready to say Brian but you all raised some really good points. Towards the end of Queen's career with Freddie Roger became the best lyricist. TATOOL is just wonderful, but other than that Brian and Freddie together but for different reasons. Early Freddie's lyrics were fun, quirky and very daring and clever whereas Brians were beautifully poetic (not to say Freddie's weren't) and gentle.
But later on in the Eighties I believe that their lyrics started to sound similar in terms of emotion, that's Bri and Fred. I mean look at 'It's A Hard Life' full of emotion and then 'Who Wants to Live Forever' and they wrote Is This The World We Created together right? which I think symbolised a fusion in their styles in some way.
[/QUOTE]
^^What he said; except with a little more credit to Deacy
But later on in the Eighties I believe that their lyrics started to sound similar in terms of emotion, that's Bri and Fred. I mean look at 'It's A Hard Life' full of emotion and then 'Who Wants to Live Forever' and they wrote Is This The World We Created together right? which I think symbolised a fusion in their styles in some way.
[/QUOTE]
^^What he said; except with a little more credit to Deacy
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<b><font color = "crimson"> ThomasQuinn wrote: [/QUOTENAME]Roger has a very direct quality, his lyrics are the most appealing socially, in a Springsteenian fashion.
Brian and Freddie tie in poetics, but Freddie can do tongue-in-cheek, which Brian isn't very good at.
John is good at the narratives, but when he tries anything else, he fails miserably (remember "Misfire"?).[/QUOTE]
Agree with TQ here...except for Misfire.
I like all four in their own right.
Brian and Freddie tie in poetics, but Freddie can do tongue-in-cheek, which Brian isn't very good at.
John is good at the narratives, but when he tries anything else, he fails miserably (remember "Misfire"?).[/QUOTE]
Agree with TQ here...except for Misfire.
I like all four in their own right.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME].*.Messenger Of Leah.*. wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Scott_Mercury wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]chazz12345 wrote: [/QUOTENAME]in the early days freddie, later on brian...infact was freddie even in the band in the later days[/QUOTE]
Yep, he sure was... as a matter of fact he wrote 7 of Innuendo's 12 songs.
6 or 7 of The Miracle's songs...plus the "new day is born" beginning to Roger's Breakthru.
And correct me if I am wrong,Sebastian? ...but isn't 40-45% of Made in Heaven said to be Fred's as well??
In conclusion, Freddie ill with a terminal disease still = Queen's chief songwriter.[/QUOTE]
SCOTT, can you please tell me which seven songs Brian wrote off of Innuendo. And which six or seven songs off of The Miracle? Or do you mean Freddie?
The person you replied to said it like this "in fact, was Freddie even in the band in the later days?" ... acting as if Freddie didn't write any songs on Innuendo or The Miracle.[/QUOTE]
Yep...I thought my sentence very clearly stated the amount of songs Freddie wrote...not Brian...
I don't understand where you got that from.
Yep, he sure was... as a matter of fact he wrote 7 of Innuendo's 12 songs.
6 or 7 of The Miracle's songs...plus the "new day is born" beginning to Roger's Breakthru.
And correct me if I am wrong,Sebastian? ...but isn't 40-45% of Made in Heaven said to be Fred's as well??
In conclusion, Freddie ill with a terminal disease still = Queen's chief songwriter.[/QUOTE]
SCOTT, can you please tell me which seven songs Brian wrote off of Innuendo. And which six or seven songs off of The Miracle? Or do you mean Freddie?
The person you replied to said it like this "in fact, was Freddie even in the band in the later days?" ... acting as if Freddie didn't write any songs on Innuendo or The Miracle.[/QUOTE]
Yep...I thought my sentence very clearly stated the amount of songs Freddie wrote...not Brian...
I don't understand where you got that from.
I'd have to say Brian. Especially in the early days, he wrote so many beautiful, poetic songs.. not that Freddie didn't, but it seems Freddie's lyrics were (usually) a little more direct without really getting too deep. There are exceptions.. 'Nevermore' always strikes me lyrically.
But I could list a whole bunch of Brian songs which lyrically just blow me away.. White Queen, '39, Long Away.. even into later material like Hammer to Fall, WWTLF.
I tend to enjoy John's songs a lot, but none strike me as being very brilliant ;)
As for Roger, there's a recurrent theme of nostalgia, being a teenager, loving your mom.. it's all kinda cute but again, nothing too deep except TATDOOL which I would say is his masterpiece lyrically, just for being so open and honest.
But I could list a whole bunch of Brian songs which lyrically just blow me away.. White Queen, '39, Long Away.. even into later material like Hammer to Fall, WWTLF.
I tend to enjoy John's songs a lot, but none strike me as being very brilliant ;)
As for Roger, there's a recurrent theme of nostalgia, being a teenager, loving your mom.. it's all kinda cute but again, nothing too deep except TATDOOL which I would say is his masterpiece lyrically, just for being so open and honest.
Freddie's songwriting abilities started going down hill from 'The Game' onwards.
...and that both lyrically and musically speaking.
...and that both lyrically and musically speaking.
Best Brian's lyrics were posted by him in his soapbox recently. Some words about journalists. Something sharming in the a la Greg Brooks style. Wonderful!
All of them were good lyricists in their own way.
Ditto
Freddie was certainly the most fanciful and daring, while Bri took care of the more serious and vulnerable aspects of the human condition. John wrote the "silly love songs" Paul McCartney once lamented. Roger tended to be more straightforward and less romantic, but also provided that cutting bit of acid to leaven out the flowery passages from the other three.
For unabashed and glorious inventiveness, Freddie wins in a landslide, but kudos to Bri for sensitivity and moments of sheer poetry, and points to Roger for putting some bile into the '70s albums in particular (and increasingly showing a bit of pop-friendly turns of phrase later on). Certainly Roger and John improved as Freddie and Brian's lyrics became less interesting as the '80s progressed.
Highlights:
Freddie - March of the Black Queen, Killer Queen, Bohemian Rhapsody, We Are the Champions, Life is Real ("Guilt stains on my pillow ..." - haunting and sublime), I'm Going Slightly Mad
Brian - White Queen, Long Away ("Lonely as a whisper on a star chase" - beautiful!), Save Me, Hammer to Fall, The Show Must Go On
John - Don't Try So Hard (if it was indeed John? Did Freddie help with these lyrics?)
Roger - Drowse, Breakthru, Heaven for Everyone
For unabashed and glorious inventiveness, Freddie wins in a landslide, but kudos to Bri for sensitivity and moments of sheer poetry, and points to Roger for putting some bile into the '70s albums in particular (and increasingly showing a bit of pop-friendly turns of phrase later on). Certainly Roger and John improved as Freddie and Brian's lyrics became less interesting as the '80s progressed.
Highlights:
Freddie - March of the Black Queen, Killer Queen, Bohemian Rhapsody, We Are the Champions, Life is Real ("Guilt stains on my pillow ..." - haunting and sublime), I'm Going Slightly Mad
Brian - White Queen, Long Away ("Lonely as a whisper on a star chase" - beautiful!), Save Me, Hammer to Fall, The Show Must Go On
John - Don't Try So Hard (if it was indeed John? Did Freddie help with these lyrics?)
Roger - Drowse, Breakthru, Heaven for Everyone
'Don't Try So Hard' is Fred's
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Sebastian wrote: [/QUOTENAME]'Don't Try So Hard' is Fred's[/QUOTE]
Right. DTSH is not John's style at all...
I guess I'm just not seeing the "Freddie sucked" in the later years idea that some of you are saying.
Freddie, for better or worse still wrote more then the others... 7/12 of Innuendo's were is... while dying of AIDS (only months away)... and many highlights of the others songs were his as well. With Brian now, for example saying he and Freddie sat down and wrote the first verse, and general idea for TSMGO together.... and Freddie helping with lyrics on TATDOOL.
I'm not saying others didn't augment to Freddie's songs...but Freddie still was the main member who had to "deliver" a new song to general public, plus, eventhough he downplayed his abilities, he was by far the most technical advanced member of the group from a theory perspective, and combine that with his personality type....I would bet it was very seldom that Roger would turn a 4 chord, all major chord song into Freddie... and Freddie wouldn't do something to change it.
Let's get real... in order for a Queen song to hit the radio, be a hit, sound like Queen, have that signature Queen sound to it to that the passive general public (not us on here...GENERAL public) could identify... it had to be sung from Freddie Mercury's mouth. right???
Ok...stay with me.... meanwhile, he was by far the most music theory advanced member of the group, and without question, as per the charts, wrote most of the major hits.
Based on these facts. Not opinions. Who would you say the overall concensus is of which was the best writer?
Right. DTSH is not John's style at all...
I guess I'm just not seeing the "Freddie sucked" in the later years idea that some of you are saying.
Freddie, for better or worse still wrote more then the others... 7/12 of Innuendo's were is... while dying of AIDS (only months away)... and many highlights of the others songs were his as well. With Brian now, for example saying he and Freddie sat down and wrote the first verse, and general idea for TSMGO together.... and Freddie helping with lyrics on TATDOOL.
I'm not saying others didn't augment to Freddie's songs...but Freddie still was the main member who had to "deliver" a new song to general public, plus, eventhough he downplayed his abilities, he was by far the most technical advanced member of the group from a theory perspective, and combine that with his personality type....I would bet it was very seldom that Roger would turn a 4 chord, all major chord song into Freddie... and Freddie wouldn't do something to change it.
Let's get real... in order for a Queen song to hit the radio, be a hit, sound like Queen, have that signature Queen sound to it to that the passive general public (not us on here...GENERAL public) could identify... it had to be sung from Freddie Mercury's mouth. right???
Ok...stay with me.... meanwhile, he was by far the most music theory advanced member of the group, and without question, as per the charts, wrote most of the major hits.
Based on these facts. Not opinions. Who would you say the overall concensus is of which was the best writer?
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Sebastian wrote: [/QUOTENAME]About Freddie as chief songwriter: true, but keep in mind that for most of his songs the lyrics were co-written with somebody else (and we're discussing lyrics in this topic): 'Miracle' is a four-way split in the words, 'Worth It' too has input from all of them, so do 'Party' and 'Kashoggi's', and I'm quite sure 'Hitman' has contributions by all four on lyrics (even if Freddie, probably, directed in a similar way to Bowie on 'Under Pressure').
Fred did start off the lyrics in 'Innuendo', but Roger completed them. 'Slightly Mad' is lyrically an unacreditted collaboration between Freddie and Peter Straker. So I'm trying to think and perhaps the only Queen songs after 'Princes' for which Mercury penned the totality of lyrics were 'Winter's Tale', 'Don't Try So Hard', 'Bijou' and perhaps 'All God's People' (assuming that Mike's contribution was restricted to the music, something I'm not sure about). For the rest, he was always assisted by someone else, even before the "Queen credit" era: Brian helped out with some lines in 'Friends Will Be Friends' and 'A Hard Life'.
Still, as you said, Fred was Queen's dominant songwriter, but his input was still more musical (and especially melodic) than lyrical.
About 'Made In Heaven' (the album), that one's more a compilation than an actual album. The only truly post-Innuendo material is limited to three songs, but then of course we can see that he was the creative force: off those three tracks, he wrote one and co-wrote the other two.[/QUOTE] also keep in mind that freddie added lryics to other people songs as well. "another one bites the dust" and the middle section of the prophet song. I think they helped each other with the lryics. A lot of facts we don't even know about yet. For this reason it's hard to say who came up with the best lryics which is only one's opinion anyway.
Fred did start off the lyrics in 'Innuendo', but Roger completed them. 'Slightly Mad' is lyrically an unacreditted collaboration between Freddie and Peter Straker. So I'm trying to think and perhaps the only Queen songs after 'Princes' for which Mercury penned the totality of lyrics were 'Winter's Tale', 'Don't Try So Hard', 'Bijou' and perhaps 'All God's People' (assuming that Mike's contribution was restricted to the music, something I'm not sure about). For the rest, he was always assisted by someone else, even before the "Queen credit" era: Brian helped out with some lines in 'Friends Will Be Friends' and 'A Hard Life'.
Still, as you said, Fred was Queen's dominant songwriter, but his input was still more musical (and especially melodic) than lyrical.
About 'Made In Heaven' (the album), that one's more a compilation than an actual album. The only truly post-Innuendo material is limited to three songs, but then of course we can see that he was the creative force: off those three tracks, he wrote one and co-wrote the other two.[/QUOTE] also keep in mind that freddie added lryics to other people songs as well. "another one bites the dust" and the middle section of the prophet song. I think they helped each other with the lryics. A lot of facts we don't even know about yet. For this reason it's hard to say who came up with the best lryics which is only one's opinion anyway.
About Freddie's input on other people's songs: That's correct. Still it was more related to melody, song structure and (perhaps) chords than lyrics.
About Queen's chart success: hardly related to lyrics in that case. They were good lyricist, but not remembered for that. 'Twas much more about melody and performance (guitar+vocals).
About Queen's chart success: hardly related to lyrics in that case. They were good lyricist, but not remembered for that. 'Twas much more about melody and performance (guitar+vocals).