[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Mr.Jingles wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Atheist wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Sir GH<br><h6>ah yeah</h6> wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Atheist wrote: [/QUOTENAME]yeah you are right, i guess if people is stupid enough to believe in it then it gives them hope and meaning which is a good thing.[/QUOTE]
It has nothing to do with intelligence. I know a lot of intelligent religious people and a lot of ignorant atheists.
[/QUOTE]
yeah but atheists are still smarter because they dont follow man made fairy tales of lies instead of facts that we are just animals [/QUOTE]
Looks like you're not part of the group of "smart atheists", aren't you?[/QUOTE]
smart enough to not believe in bullshit stories :)
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Posts in chronological order
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Atheist wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Mr.Jingles wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Atheist wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Sir GH<br><h6>ah yeah</h6> wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Atheist wrote: [/QUOTENAME]yeah you are right, i guess if people is stupid enough to believe in it then it gives them hope and meaning which is a good thing.[/QUOTE]
It has nothing to do with intelligence. I know a lot of intelligent religious people and a lot of ignorant atheists.
[/QUOTE]
yeah but atheists are still smarter because they dont follow man made fairy tales of lies instead of facts that we are just animals [/QUOTE]
Looks like you're not part of the group of "smart atheists", aren't you?[/QUOTE]
smart enough to not believe in bullshit stories :)[/QUOTE]
Smart enough to consider and tolerate the fact that every single human being thinks different?
It has nothing to do with intelligence. I know a lot of intelligent religious people and a lot of ignorant atheists.
[/QUOTE]
yeah but atheists are still smarter because they dont follow man made fairy tales of lies instead of facts that we are just animals [/QUOTE]
Looks like you're not part of the group of "smart atheists", aren't you?[/QUOTE]
smart enough to not believe in bullshit stories :)[/QUOTE]
Smart enough to consider and tolerate the fact that every single human being thinks different?
if there is ANYONE still interested in this post, here my contribution. a blog entry from a good friend of mine. hit the nail on the head really. and I, for the record, am an atheist.
i added my opinion which is included. drawn out but nonetheless relevant!
Religion
Category: Religion and Philosophy
Right, time for a bit of controversy, methinks.
Religion: does it make the world go round? Is it just another way to pass the time till you die? I can't really answer either of these questions, but I can offer some thoughts from both sides of the fence, finally leading to my own beliefs.
But first and foremost:
DISCLAIMER
Anything mentioned in this blog entry/profile, hell, anything I've written on MySpace, is not meant in any derogatory/offensive sense towards any belivers in any faith or any non-believers. This is simply my own take on the beliefs and faiths, and indeed the anti-faiths of this world, and shouldn't be taken as propaganda or a belief in its-self. I am simply expressing my views on other people's views (if that makes any sense), I am not selling a religion, or suggesting that I conform to one. All in all, it's a fucking online blog, and you'll probably have a more interesting time reading this than any of the other teenie bullshit you find. And remember: if you don't like it, don't read it!
What sparked me off to write this, is hearing someone say "Religion is a piece of shit". Now, I'm no devout believer in any faith, although I can't help but think there is a higher power. Wether it's God, Allah or whoever, isn't for me to say, but anyway. This statement annoyed and hurt me to a certain degree, and here's why:
What gives anyone the right to just write off, and indeed insult a religion in so light a way? If you say that, you are surely insulting and shitting upon millions of people, of which I'm willing to bet a good chunk are good, honest people. Take for instance, my Gran. My Gran rules, end of story. She's also a committed Catholic. I'm sure you'll all understand when I say that when I hear people say things like "Religion is a piece of shit" and "God doesn't exist" etc, it pisses me off. Why? Because in one way, shape or form you are in fact taking everything my Gran holds near and dear, what makes her get up every morning, and saying its fucking bollocks. Thats what pisses me off.
Now for my next point. I'll be the first one to accept other people's ideas and beliefs, but what makes it so hard to swallow is when it's put in such a vulgar and, well, lets face it, downright pig-minded way. Is it so hard to just say "I don't believe in religion"? Why does it have to be "Religion is bollocks" etc? I can pretty much guarantee that a good slice of people who don't believe in anything are those who are against war. I'm not exactly hot on war myself, and I will agree that most wars are caused because of religion, and this ties in nicely with what I was just saying. If people weren't so downright narrow-minded and just accepted what other people believe in, the world would be a much better place. I mean, what is racism? Hatred of someone for the colour of their skin (amongst other things). What makes hatred of religion any different?
For anyone who's still reading and hasn't crept off to write an anti-religion/Bidley blog, this is what I believe in. I've had no reason to doubt any religion. The fact that there are literally millions, maybe thousands of millions of people who have a faith. Surely thats got to count for something? Or should I just label the majority of the human population as deluded? I also believe in science, which cannot be denied. So, divided, neither (science or religion) have all the answers. Sorry people, but they don't. Together, however, you can have some idea of how things are and how they work.
I guess what I'm getting at (anyone who has seen Dogma will rumble me about now), is that it's better to just hav
i added my opinion which is included. drawn out but nonetheless relevant!
Religion
Category: Religion and Philosophy
Right, time for a bit of controversy, methinks.
Religion: does it make the world go round? Is it just another way to pass the time till you die? I can't really answer either of these questions, but I can offer some thoughts from both sides of the fence, finally leading to my own beliefs.
But first and foremost:
DISCLAIMER
Anything mentioned in this blog entry/profile, hell, anything I've written on MySpace, is not meant in any derogatory/offensive sense towards any belivers in any faith or any non-believers. This is simply my own take on the beliefs and faiths, and indeed the anti-faiths of this world, and shouldn't be taken as propaganda or a belief in its-self. I am simply expressing my views on other people's views (if that makes any sense), I am not selling a religion, or suggesting that I conform to one. All in all, it's a fucking online blog, and you'll probably have a more interesting time reading this than any of the other teenie bullshit you find. And remember: if you don't like it, don't read it!
What sparked me off to write this, is hearing someone say "Religion is a piece of shit". Now, I'm no devout believer in any faith, although I can't help but think there is a higher power. Wether it's God, Allah or whoever, isn't for me to say, but anyway. This statement annoyed and hurt me to a certain degree, and here's why:
What gives anyone the right to just write off, and indeed insult a religion in so light a way? If you say that, you are surely insulting and shitting upon millions of people, of which I'm willing to bet a good chunk are good, honest people. Take for instance, my Gran. My Gran rules, end of story. She's also a committed Catholic. I'm sure you'll all understand when I say that when I hear people say things like "Religion is a piece of shit" and "God doesn't exist" etc, it pisses me off. Why? Because in one way, shape or form you are in fact taking everything my Gran holds near and dear, what makes her get up every morning, and saying its fucking bollocks. Thats what pisses me off.
Now for my next point. I'll be the first one to accept other people's ideas and beliefs, but what makes it so hard to swallow is when it's put in such a vulgar and, well, lets face it, downright pig-minded way. Is it so hard to just say "I don't believe in religion"? Why does it have to be "Religion is bollocks" etc? I can pretty much guarantee that a good slice of people who don't believe in anything are those who are against war. I'm not exactly hot on war myself, and I will agree that most wars are caused because of religion, and this ties in nicely with what I was just saying. If people weren't so downright narrow-minded and just accepted what other people believe in, the world would be a much better place. I mean, what is racism? Hatred of someone for the colour of their skin (amongst other things). What makes hatred of religion any different?
For anyone who's still reading and hasn't crept off to write an anti-religion/Bidley blog, this is what I believe in. I've had no reason to doubt any religion. The fact that there are literally millions, maybe thousands of millions of people who have a faith. Surely thats got to count for something? Or should I just label the majority of the human population as deluded? I also believe in science, which cannot be denied. So, divided, neither (science or religion) have all the answers. Sorry people, but they don't. Together, however, you can have some idea of how things are and how they work.
I guess what I'm getting at (anyone who has seen Dogma will rumble me about now), is that it's better to just hav
Great post overall. But I do have a few comments:
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]inmydefence wrote: [/QUOTENAME]I mean, what is racism? Hatred of someone for the colour of their skin (amongst other things). What makes hatred of religion any different?[/QUOTE]
Because in most most parts of the world, what you believe is ultimately your choice, not something you're born into with no chance of escaping.
[QUOTE]The fact that there are literally millions, maybe thousands of millions of people who have a faith. Surely thats got to count for something? Or should I just label the majority of the human population as deluded?[/QUOTE]
You're definitely on the right track. First, we should recognize that you're speaking in pretty general terms. There are varying degrees of how strongly people hold onto their beliefs. But when it comes down to it, Christians and Catholics (I'll focus on them, since they are the most populous people of faith worldwide) generally believe they are going to a better place when they die, because of some guy who died and supposedly came back to life about 2000 years ago. Some of these people also believe that everyone who disagrees with them will ultimately rot in a place called hell. Live and let live? Intolerance begins with people like these. Before we criticize staunch atheists for being critical of strongly religious people, perhaps we can recognize that they're simply being "intolerant" of the intolerance of people like this.
Back to the old stories themselves. Most people of whatever degree of faith don't know when these stories were written, who wrote them, why they were written, and all the compilations of the translation process. That aside... they are just stories. Mere words. Words are just words until you believe them, and then they can have extraordinary power. Christianity and many other religions offer answers to the ultimate questions of life. I personally see people who cannot live without these concrete answers as being weak people in one way or another. If we raised our children without belief in the traditional parent-like God, then they would grow up to be more self-sufficient people, and have belief in themselves, rather than belief in an invisible man in the sky that they have been deluded to believe in. This brings me back to what you said. Delusion. You're absolutely right.
I certainly believe there is a higher being or force of some kind, but not in the traditional sense. I see it as a force that we cannot tangibly understand. My denial of ancient fables is not a denial of the ultimate. I simply believe that no human-created religion or system of belief can fathom what the ultimate is. We are limited. The ultimate is not.
You speak of the growing dialog between science and religion. It's a great thing that the two are trying to work together, but by no means are they on level ground. Science is the process by which we prove things to be true or untrue by testable measures, whereas philosophy (which encompasses religion) covers everything else, without requiring any kind of proof. Philosophy can be a beautiful and creative thing, but religion can become a problem when people turn it into a science, and insist that their convictions are undoubtedly true. They can force impressionable children to believe what they tell them to believe by threatening them with hell, and they can even go as far as killing someone who disagrees with them. Whoever said the world was progressing? Sure, we can build a good computer, but most of us don't know the difference between tangible and intangible things. If we did, we wouldn't have schools where "intelligent design" is taught as a science, and we wouldn't have several religious wars going on right now.
More and more people in the western world are giving up on monotheistic religion, and moving towards non-organized spirituality or philosophy. People just aren't buying the old stories anymore.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]inmydefence wrote: [/QUOTENAME]I mean, what is racism? Hatred of someone for the colour of their skin (amongst other things). What makes hatred of religion any different?[/QUOTE]
Because in most most parts of the world, what you believe is ultimately your choice, not something you're born into with no chance of escaping.
[QUOTE]The fact that there are literally millions, maybe thousands of millions of people who have a faith. Surely thats got to count for something? Or should I just label the majority of the human population as deluded?[/QUOTE]
You're definitely on the right track. First, we should recognize that you're speaking in pretty general terms. There are varying degrees of how strongly people hold onto their beliefs. But when it comes down to it, Christians and Catholics (I'll focus on them, since they are the most populous people of faith worldwide) generally believe they are going to a better place when they die, because of some guy who died and supposedly came back to life about 2000 years ago. Some of these people also believe that everyone who disagrees with them will ultimately rot in a place called hell. Live and let live? Intolerance begins with people like these. Before we criticize staunch atheists for being critical of strongly religious people, perhaps we can recognize that they're simply being "intolerant" of the intolerance of people like this.
Back to the old stories themselves. Most people of whatever degree of faith don't know when these stories were written, who wrote them, why they were written, and all the compilations of the translation process. That aside... they are just stories. Mere words. Words are just words until you believe them, and then they can have extraordinary power. Christianity and many other religions offer answers to the ultimate questions of life. I personally see people who cannot live without these concrete answers as being weak people in one way or another. If we raised our children without belief in the traditional parent-like God, then they would grow up to be more self-sufficient people, and have belief in themselves, rather than belief in an invisible man in the sky that they have been deluded to believe in. This brings me back to what you said. Delusion. You're absolutely right.
I certainly believe there is a higher being or force of some kind, but not in the traditional sense. I see it as a force that we cannot tangibly understand. My denial of ancient fables is not a denial of the ultimate. I simply believe that no human-created religion or system of belief can fathom what the ultimate is. We are limited. The ultimate is not.
You speak of the growing dialog between science and religion. It's a great thing that the two are trying to work together, but by no means are they on level ground. Science is the process by which we prove things to be true or untrue by testable measures, whereas philosophy (which encompasses religion) covers everything else, without requiring any kind of proof. Philosophy can be a beautiful and creative thing, but religion can become a problem when people turn it into a science, and insist that their convictions are undoubtedly true. They can force impressionable children to believe what they tell them to believe by threatening them with hell, and they can even go as far as killing someone who disagrees with them. Whoever said the world was progressing? Sure, we can build a good computer, but most of us don't know the difference between tangible and intangible things. If we did, we wouldn't have schools where "intelligent design" is taught as a science, and we wouldn't have several religious wars going on right now.
More and more people in the western world are giving up on monotheistic religion, and moving towards non-organized spirituality or philosophy. People just aren't buying the old stories anymore.
what's the go with everyone writing so much?
I mean sheesh, who reads it all?
I mean sheesh, who reads it all?
Hear this: "...time, and times, and half a time..."
the Essenes, just one of the proto-Christian groups, contributed the "time cubit" of 800 solar years, hence 800 ("time") plus 800 ("times" -- plural -- add just one) plus 400 ("half a time" ) = 2000 yrs
A theist like me will tell you changing jesus to freddie in church means eventually some more people will hate Freddie! I don't ever want that! Even with the same passion that some people now deride Jesus, or Moses, Mohammed, etc.
changing names doesn't change much. changing the times changes EVERYTHING
the Essenes, just one of the proto-Christian groups, contributed the "time cubit" of 800 solar years, hence 800 ("time") plus 800 ("times" -- plural -- add just one) plus 400 ("half a time" ) = 2000 yrs
A theist like me will tell you changing jesus to freddie in church means eventually some more people will hate Freddie! I don't ever want that! Even with the same passion that some people now deride Jesus, or Moses, Mohammed, etc.
changing names doesn't change much. changing the times changes EVERYTHING
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Sir GH<br><h6>ah yeah</h6> wrote: [/QUOTENAME]
I certainly believe there is a higher being or force of some kind, but not in the traditional sense. I see it as a force that we cannot tangibly understand. My denial of ancient fables is not a denial of the ultimate. I simply believe that no human-created religion or system of belief can fathom what the ultimate is. We are limited. The ultimate is not. [/QUOTE]
Very well said, as usual. Might I add that, IMO, for humans to hold 'god' so dear and mighty, and then profess to understand god's grand meaning and desire within their own lives and minds is arrogant and close-minded.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Sir GH<br><h6>ah yeah</h6> wrote: [/QUOTENAME]
You speak of the growing dialog between science and religion. It's a great thing that the two are trying to work together, but by no means are they on level ground. Science is the process by which we prove things to be true or untrue by testable measures, whereas philosophy (which encompasses religion) covers everything else, without requiring any kind of proof. Philosophy can be a beautiful and creative thing, but religion can become a problem when people turn it into a science, and insist that their convictions are undoubtedly true. They can force impressionable children to believe what they tell them to believe by threatening them with hell, and they can even go as far as killing someone who disagrees with them. Whoever said the world was progressing? Sure, we can build a good computer, but most of us don't know the difference between tangible and intangible things. If we did, we wouldn't have schools where "intelligent design" is taught as a science, and we wouldn't have several religious wars going on right now. [/QUOTE]
This is what hurts me, personally, the most about religion. The effect on children. It makes sense that the beliefs of the parents will be passed on with passion to children, but since religion is based on ideas not facts, children are brainwashed into believing rather than being encouraged to seek their own 'truth'. Hell becomes a very real thing that rules a child's life. It's unfair and manipulative to describe such horrors to an innocent child and have them live in constant fear that they or their precious family will suffer such a fate for all eternity. And for those who feel they are helping or 'saving' their children by teaching them this way, I say look at the young Palestinian children strapped with suicide belts. Their parents feel the same way. When will logic supersede idolatry?
As for intelligent design - I find it amazing how passionately people can talk about faith as fact yet when it comes to the origin of man, they quite easily dismiss science as an easy answer. I've heard say how the Big Bang Theory is a poor excuse for an answer when it's 'clear' that only a higher power could have created such magnificence as the earth and stars. Facts be damned. It was all a well-thought out plan by an invisible superior being. Interestingly, the ancient Egyptians believed the sun rose and set at the whim of another invisible superior being. Though we've since learned the facts of that, many still hold onto an ancient, ignorant way of thinking and feel it is their duty to pass this ignorance on.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Sir GH<br><h6>ah yeah</h6> wrote: [/QUOTENAME]
Back to the old stories themselves. Most people of whatever degree of faith don't know when these stories were written, who wrote them, why they were written, and all the compilations of the translation process. That aside... they are just stories. Mere words. Words are just words until you believe them, and then they can have extraordinary power. Christianity and many other religions offer answers to the ultimate questions of life. I personally see people who cannot live without these concrete answers as being weak people in one way or anot
I certainly believe there is a higher being or force of some kind, but not in the traditional sense. I see it as a force that we cannot tangibly understand. My denial of ancient fables is not a denial of the ultimate. I simply believe that no human-created religion or system of belief can fathom what the ultimate is. We are limited. The ultimate is not. [/QUOTE]
Very well said, as usual. Might I add that, IMO, for humans to hold 'god' so dear and mighty, and then profess to understand god's grand meaning and desire within their own lives and minds is arrogant and close-minded.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Sir GH<br><h6>ah yeah</h6> wrote: [/QUOTENAME]
You speak of the growing dialog between science and religion. It's a great thing that the two are trying to work together, but by no means are they on level ground. Science is the process by which we prove things to be true or untrue by testable measures, whereas philosophy (which encompasses religion) covers everything else, without requiring any kind of proof. Philosophy can be a beautiful and creative thing, but religion can become a problem when people turn it into a science, and insist that their convictions are undoubtedly true. They can force impressionable children to believe what they tell them to believe by threatening them with hell, and they can even go as far as killing someone who disagrees with them. Whoever said the world was progressing? Sure, we can build a good computer, but most of us don't know the difference between tangible and intangible things. If we did, we wouldn't have schools where "intelligent design" is taught as a science, and we wouldn't have several religious wars going on right now. [/QUOTE]
This is what hurts me, personally, the most about religion. The effect on children. It makes sense that the beliefs of the parents will be passed on with passion to children, but since religion is based on ideas not facts, children are brainwashed into believing rather than being encouraged to seek their own 'truth'. Hell becomes a very real thing that rules a child's life. It's unfair and manipulative to describe such horrors to an innocent child and have them live in constant fear that they or their precious family will suffer such a fate for all eternity. And for those who feel they are helping or 'saving' their children by teaching them this way, I say look at the young Palestinian children strapped with suicide belts. Their parents feel the same way. When will logic supersede idolatry?
As for intelligent design - I find it amazing how passionately people can talk about faith as fact yet when it comes to the origin of man, they quite easily dismiss science as an easy answer. I've heard say how the Big Bang Theory is a poor excuse for an answer when it's 'clear' that only a higher power could have created such magnificence as the earth and stars. Facts be damned. It was all a well-thought out plan by an invisible superior being. Interestingly, the ancient Egyptians believed the sun rose and set at the whim of another invisible superior being. Though we've since learned the facts of that, many still hold onto an ancient, ignorant way of thinking and feel it is their duty to pass this ignorance on.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Sir GH<br><h6>ah yeah</h6> wrote: [/QUOTENAME]
Back to the old stories themselves. Most people of whatever degree of faith don't know when these stories were written, who wrote them, why they were written, and all the compilations of the translation process. That aside... they are just stories. Mere words. Words are just words until you believe them, and then they can have extraordinary power. Christianity and many other religions offer answers to the ultimate questions of life. I personally see people who cannot live without these concrete answers as being weak people in one way or anot
Sir GH
you are a very smart individual!
you are a very smart individual!
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<Font color=Puce>Deakys...<h6>Microwave? wrote: [/QUOTENAME]what's the go with everyone writing so much?
I mean sheesh, who reads it all?[/QUOTE]
Clearly, many of us do. If you don't want to participate in the discussion, that's up to you. Let's not forget that you're 13.
I mean sheesh, who reads it all?[/QUOTE]
Clearly, many of us do. If you don't want to participate in the discussion, that's up to you. Let's not forget that you're 13.
Freddie was comparable to Jesus, but not Jesus Christ, a big difference for some of us who reject Christianity but love the character Jesus.
From 'Major League':
Pedro Cerrano: Bats, they are sick. I cannot hit curveball. Straightball I hit it very much. Curveball, bats are afraid. I ask Jobu to come, take fear from bats. I offer him cigar, rum. He will come.
Eddie Harris: You know you might think about taking Jesus Christ as your savior instead of fooling around with all this stuff.
Roger Dorn: Shit, Harris.
Pedro Cerrano: Jesus (pronounced 'hay-zeus'), I like him very much, but he no help with curveball.
Eddie Harris: You trying to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?
Pedro Cerrano: Bats, they are sick. I cannot hit curveball. Straightball I hit it very much. Curveball, bats are afraid. I ask Jobu to come, take fear from bats. I offer him cigar, rum. He will come.
Eddie Harris: You know you might think about taking Jesus Christ as your savior instead of fooling around with all this stuff.
Roger Dorn: Shit, Harris.
Pedro Cerrano: Jesus (pronounced 'hay-zeus'), I like him very much, but he no help with curveball.
Eddie Harris: You trying to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?