[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<font color=0099FF>Killer Queenie wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]CMU HistoryGirl wrote: [/QUOTENAME]I'm disturbed that so many people think it's ok to leave children alone for that long, while they LEFT THE BUILDING...all kids under the age of 3, no supervision. Yes I understand you can't protect them forever, and when they are old enough you let them start taking their lumps...it's the only way they learn. But at that age they can't protect themselves, and it's your JOB as a parent to protect them. Sorry if that means your social life dies for about 15 years...but that's what baby sitters/daycare is for...you made that choice when you had kids.
I guess I'm just going to chalk it up to teenagers who don't know any better about being a caregiver/parent, and hope that things change. [/QUOTE]
I'm not denying that what they did was wrong - yes they should have know better than to leave the child alone. But they were pretty sure that nothing could of happened to her at the time. No-one is a perfect parent - we are only human after all.
Look how many other children have been abducted over the years. Many of them were a lot older than Madeleine. But what you've got to remember is that young children are easily bribed with things like "I've got sweeties" or "I know your mummy and daddy, come with me". We may never know who snatched her, but whoever it was must have had some form of connection with her - like he has been watching the family or summat.
You can't always be there for your children. The parents may have been nearby - it wasn't as if they had abandonded her for christs sake!! The main thing is, her parents admit they shouldn't have left her - but the apartment they were staying in must have boasted that the security was top notch - otherwise why else whould her parents have left her there?? [/QUOTE]
The children were only 2 and 3 years old. By all reasonable standards, they were just babies. Top-notch security can't prevent a child of any age from getting hurt because s/he's been left alone in a room. Being 50 yards away - in a separate building, dining - cannot provide parents with vital sensory details. Their child could have been crying in pain or fear but the parents couldn't possibly know.
No, parents cannot be with their children 100% of the time and accidents do happen when parents are within inches of their kids. But twist this situation a bit - what if the girl fell off the bed and hit her head on the nightstand? They didn't know until they came back to find she'd bled to death. Would you not hold the parents responsible then... even though they were ONLY 50 yards away?
It seems the argument against laying some blame on the parents comes from a warped notion that we're not holding the kidnappers accountable. No one has said that. What's been said is that it's clear the poor choices from these parents made things that much easier for the bastards who took their little girl.
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[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]CMU HistoryGirl wrote: [/QUOTENAME]I'm disturbed that so many people think it's ok to leave children alone for that long, while they LEFT THE BUILDING...all kids under the age of 3, no supervision.[/QUOTE]
Note that all the people in this topic with this belief are 18 or under, while most of the ones who disagree are adults who have children of their own. All I can hope is that these teenagers aren't going to be the ones who get knocked up in the near future.
Note that all the people in this topic with this belief are 18 or under, while most of the ones who disagree are adults who have children of their own. All I can hope is that these teenagers aren't going to be the ones who get knocked up in the near future.
"I guess I'm just going to chalk it up to teenagers who don't know any better about being a caregiver/parent, and hope that things change. "
and there you have it. as CMUHistorygirl said, it was their choice to have the kids. people dont realize once a child is born, its pretty muc hall about the kid from then on. goodbye social life for at least the next 15 years. yes there will be small windows of time where you can go out and be with friends, but at least have some kind of supervisor for them!
kidnappings happen all the time. i dont know why they make such a big deal out of this little girl. it sucks, its sad, and i really hope shell be alive and for the most part well, or as fatty said (i think it was fatty), hope that if she is dead that it was quick and painless. it sucks to say that but it is a reality check.
well i think again i ended up repeating what everyone else said so um...yeah *walks out*
and there you have it. as CMUHistorygirl said, it was their choice to have the kids. people dont realize once a child is born, its pretty muc hall about the kid from then on. goodbye social life for at least the next 15 years. yes there will be small windows of time where you can go out and be with friends, but at least have some kind of supervisor for them!
kidnappings happen all the time. i dont know why they make such a big deal out of this little girl. it sucks, its sad, and i really hope shell be alive and for the most part well, or as fatty said (i think it was fatty), hope that if she is dead that it was quick and painless. it sucks to say that but it is a reality check.
well i think again i ended up repeating what everyone else said so um...yeah *walks out*
Freya it sounds as though you have a very liberal attitude which is (no offence but i cant think of another way to say it) pretty namby Pamby.
obviously the main focus at the minute is trying to get the maddie back, however, we wouldn't have to worry about that had the opportunity to take maddie not been presented on a plate to this disgusting peadophile, who does need to be punished.
I am only 17 but i have to say, i cannot believe anyone would leave a child alone like that. when you have a child, you (the parent) come second pretty much all of the time. And that is the way it should be. a kid cannot fend for themselves and needs guidance.
at this moment i feel deep, very deep, sympathy for little maddie. I have a strange feeling that when( or realisticly IF) she is found her parents wont get her back anyway. That poor poor little girl.
obviously the main focus at the minute is trying to get the maddie back, however, we wouldn't have to worry about that had the opportunity to take maddie not been presented on a plate to this disgusting peadophile, who does need to be punished.
I am only 17 but i have to say, i cannot believe anyone would leave a child alone like that. when you have a child, you (the parent) come second pretty much all of the time. And that is the way it should be. a kid cannot fend for themselves and needs guidance.
at this moment i feel deep, very deep, sympathy for little maddie. I have a strange feeling that when( or realisticly IF) she is found her parents wont get her back anyway. That poor poor little girl.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<b><font color=009966>?Freya? wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]CMU HistoryGirl wrote: [/QUOTENAME]
I guess I'm just going to chalk it up to teenagers who don't know any better about being a caregiver/parent, and hope that things change. [/QUOTE]
Yeah, I'm obviously just stupid because I don't have kids. Yeah, that must be it.[/QUOTE]
That's not what I said. I don't have kids either, for your information. But I'm also a lot older than most of you here. I said I was blaming it on age and inexperience of the posters here...I'm not calling you stupid, I'm just saying you aren't experienced or mature enough to comprehend the situation fully. Don't put words in my mouth.
You may think you are mature as teenagers...I thought I was too when I was that age. But as I've gotten older, I realized I didn't know shit about shit as a teenager. You will come to that realization someday too.
Thanks for the back up, MagicalFreddieMercury
I guess I'm just going to chalk it up to teenagers who don't know any better about being a caregiver/parent, and hope that things change. [/QUOTE]
Yeah, I'm obviously just stupid because I don't have kids. Yeah, that must be it.[/QUOTE]
That's not what I said. I don't have kids either, for your information. But I'm also a lot older than most of you here. I said I was blaming it on age and inexperience of the posters here...I'm not calling you stupid, I'm just saying you aren't experienced or mature enough to comprehend the situation fully. Don't put words in my mouth.
You may think you are mature as teenagers...I thought I was too when I was that age. But as I've gotten older, I realized I didn't know shit about shit as a teenager. You will come to that realization someday too.
Thanks for the back up, MagicalFreddieMercury
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]CMU HistoryGirl wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<b><font color=009966>?Freya? wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]CMU HistoryGirl wrote: [/QUOTENAME]
I guess I'm just going to chalk it up to teenagers who don't know any better about being a caregiver/parent, and hope that things change. [/QUOTE]
Yeah, I'm obviously just stupid because I don't have kids. Yeah, that must be it.[/QUOTE]
That's not what I said. I don't have kids either, for your information. But I'm also a lot older than most of you here. I said I was blaming it on age and inexperience of the posters here...I'm not calling you stupid, I'm just saying you aren't experienced or mature enough to comprehend the situation fully. Don't put words in my mouth.
You may think you are mature as teenagers...I thought I was too when I was that age. But as I've gotten older, I realized I didn't know shit about shit as a teenager. You will come to that realization someday too.
Thanks for the back up, MagicalFreddieMercury[/QUOTE]Forgive me but, now this is just sounding patronising. I'm aware that as a teenager I still have a lot of growing up left to do but I also believe most of us on this board are mature enough to be entitled to an opinion. It's sad that a thread starting out as a place for people to express their sympathy for the family of Madeleine McCann and hope of the little girl's safe return has turned into yet ANOTHER teenager-bashing thread, mixed up with cynics expressing their views of false sympathy and arguements about the McCann's unfit parenting. What makes you think you know anymore about parenting than any 'immature inexperienced' teenager here? You may of may not have worked with young kids or be around them a lot but so have a lot of teenagers on this thread.
We are simply expressing opinions, sorrow about Madeleine's abduction, hopes for her safety and her family. No-one asked for an 'interesting everyone under the age of 18 thinks such-and-such and all the mature people think the opposite. Let's just hope none of you become parents.' style arguement.
Yes with the benefit of hindsight it was wrong to leave Madeleine alone as she is very young. But only with the benefit of hindsight. If nothing had happened it would have gone unreported just like the millions of other cases when responsible parents leave their kids alone in the safest surroundings possible.
I guess I'm just going to chalk it up to teenagers who don't know any better about being a caregiver/parent, and hope that things change. [/QUOTE]
Yeah, I'm obviously just stupid because I don't have kids. Yeah, that must be it.[/QUOTE]
That's not what I said. I don't have kids either, for your information. But I'm also a lot older than most of you here. I said I was blaming it on age and inexperience of the posters here...I'm not calling you stupid, I'm just saying you aren't experienced or mature enough to comprehend the situation fully. Don't put words in my mouth.
You may think you are mature as teenagers...I thought I was too when I was that age. But as I've gotten older, I realized I didn't know shit about shit as a teenager. You will come to that realization someday too.
Thanks for the back up, MagicalFreddieMercury[/QUOTE]Forgive me but, now this is just sounding patronising. I'm aware that as a teenager I still have a lot of growing up left to do but I also believe most of us on this board are mature enough to be entitled to an opinion. It's sad that a thread starting out as a place for people to express their sympathy for the family of Madeleine McCann and hope of the little girl's safe return has turned into yet ANOTHER teenager-bashing thread, mixed up with cynics expressing their views of false sympathy and arguements about the McCann's unfit parenting. What makes you think you know anymore about parenting than any 'immature inexperienced' teenager here? You may of may not have worked with young kids or be around them a lot but so have a lot of teenagers on this thread.
We are simply expressing opinions, sorrow about Madeleine's abduction, hopes for her safety and her family. No-one asked for an 'interesting everyone under the age of 18 thinks such-and-such and all the mature people think the opposite. Let's just hope none of you become parents.' style arguement.
Yes with the benefit of hindsight it was wrong to leave Madeleine alone as she is very young. But only with the benefit of hindsight. If nothing had happened it would have gone unreported just like the millions of other cases when responsible parents leave their kids alone in the safest surroundings possible.
I agree with you 100% Tessa.
@CMU HistoryGirl, Thank you for belittling me, it's most appreciated. I think your use of the 'I'm older, so I'm right' argument is a bit old, however when I'm your age (that grand old age of 24!) I will be sure to use it in order to establish power. As Tessa said, we are entitled to our own opinions, regardless of age. Who knows, in a few years maybe my opinions will change and I'll agree with you when I've learnt some of life's marvellous lessons.
Anyway, I know your view, you know mine, I think it's time we agree to disagree. I'm sure we can both agree that it would be lovely if little Madeleine can be found safe and hopefully unhurt. Although, the chances of that happening seem quite low.
@CMU HistoryGirl, Thank you for belittling me, it's most appreciated. I think your use of the 'I'm older, so I'm right' argument is a bit old, however when I'm your age (that grand old age of 24!) I will be sure to use it in order to establish power. As Tessa said, we are entitled to our own opinions, regardless of age. Who knows, in a few years maybe my opinions will change and I'll agree with you when I've learnt some of life's marvellous lessons.
Anyway, I know your view, you know mine, I think it's time we agree to disagree. I'm sure we can both agree that it would be lovely if little Madeleine can be found safe and hopefully unhurt. Although, the chances of that happening seem quite low.
This is the last thing I will say in my defense, as it's obvious that anger has been roused and logic and anger do not mix.
I was not belittling anyone here, I was not saying you were not entitled to your opinions, and I was not using the "I'm older, so I'm right" argument. I was pointing out that as you mature (and there is a vast difference between physical age and maturity) you begin to have a deeper understanding of things, different points of view on things, and your opinions and ideas change. This doesn't always happen for the better, but the change is unavoidable. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, and that's what I was doing on this board, expressing my opinion on the situation and exercising my right to disagree with others. When I tried to enter into a calm, logical debate, obviously I stepped on some toes.
I apologize if anyone thought I was belittling them, as this was not my intention. I was merely pointing out, as neutrally as possible, that when you are older and more mature your ideas about things will change. This put people on the defensive, which is why a debate about it now is pointless.
Maybe I do sound patronizing, but it's the truth. As time goes on, you grow and you change. It's only a fool who thinks they don't. You don't have to know what the changes will be, you simply have to admit that you are fully aware that you are going to change.
As emotions have been raised, I will leave this thread now. I hope that Madeline is found (contrary to what people seem to think on this thread)
I was not belittling anyone here, I was not saying you were not entitled to your opinions, and I was not using the "I'm older, so I'm right" argument. I was pointing out that as you mature (and there is a vast difference between physical age and maturity) you begin to have a deeper understanding of things, different points of view on things, and your opinions and ideas change. This doesn't always happen for the better, but the change is unavoidable. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, and that's what I was doing on this board, expressing my opinion on the situation and exercising my right to disagree with others. When I tried to enter into a calm, logical debate, obviously I stepped on some toes.
I apologize if anyone thought I was belittling them, as this was not my intention. I was merely pointing out, as neutrally as possible, that when you are older and more mature your ideas about things will change. This put people on the defensive, which is why a debate about it now is pointless.
Maybe I do sound patronizing, but it's the truth. As time goes on, you grow and you change. It's only a fool who thinks they don't. You don't have to know what the changes will be, you simply have to admit that you are fully aware that you are going to change.
As emotions have been raised, I will leave this thread now. I hope that Madeline is found (contrary to what people seem to think on this thread)
All we can do is sit, wait and hope. Hope that the Portuguese police find the sick person who took Maddie. Hope that Maddie is found safe and alive.
Exactly. What seems to be a good sign is that the police in charge are holding out hope that she is alive.
I personally think everyone over there is doing extremely well, the family, the police (I mean to say, they are not used to this kind of crime at all) and the media, with any luck the moment Maddie is spotted she'll be recognised.
I personally think everyone over there is doing extremely well, the family, the police (I mean to say, they are not used to this kind of crime at all) and the media, with any luck the moment Maddie is spotted she'll be recognised.
@ CMU HistoryGirl.. I am honestly not wanting to start an argument here, I just want you to understand, after giving a point of view on a subject, to then have somebody effectively say to you 'your opinion doesn't count because you're too young' is a little irritating. I'm sure you didn't mean it like that but that's how it came across. I'm not denying as a teenager I still have a lot of growing up to do, but I don't think this should mean my views are taken less seriously.
I think you should accept that some people, teenagers or not, will share my opinion and it doesn't render them hopeless parents.
Also, for a final time, I will say, I am not saying I condone Madeleine McCann's parents leaving her, I'm just saying I don’t blame them for what’s happened.
Anyway, no hard feelings and that. We've strayed from the topic enough without me going off on one, I feel.
:)
I think you should accept that some people, teenagers or not, will share my opinion and it doesn't render them hopeless parents.
Also, for a final time, I will say, I am not saying I condone Madeleine McCann's parents leaving her, I'm just saying I don’t blame them for what’s happened.
Anyway, no hard feelings and that. We've strayed from the topic enough without me going off on one, I feel.
:)
I'm sick of hearing about the kid. I know it's sad, but every year lots of children dissapear in Portugal. They dont have all this noise around the case like Madleine. Thats not fair. This is only becaus she's not Portuguese and is a tourist. It's all about money for the tourism.
Anyway, I do not really believe it, but I hope that she is arriving well to her parents soon.
Anyway, I do not really believe it, but I hope that she is arriving well to her parents soon.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<font color=CC0000>Queen Mab wrote: [/QUOTENAME]I'm sick of hearing about the kid. I know it's sad, but every year lots of children dissapear in Portugal. They dont have all this noise around the case like Madleine. Thats not fair. This is only becaus she's not Portuguese and is a tourist. It's all about money for the tourism.
Anyway, I do not really believe it, but I hope that she is arriving well to her parents soon.
[/QUOTE]
hmm....not sure to many people would want to tour in a place that steals children all the time :-p
Anyway, I do not really believe it, but I hope that she is arriving well to her parents soon.
[/QUOTE]
hmm....not sure to many people would want to tour in a place that steals children all the time :-p
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Sparrow wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<font color=CC0000>Queen Mab wrote: [/QUOTENAME]I'm sick of hearing about the kid. I know it's sad, but every year lots of children dissapear in Portugal. They dont have all this noise around the case like Madleine. Thats not fair. This is only becaus she's not Portuguese and is a tourist. It's all about money for the tourism.
Anyway, I do not really believe it, but I hope that she is arriving well to her parents soon.
[/QUOTE]
hmm....not sure to many people would want to tour in a place that steals children all the time :-p
[/QUOTE]
I can see by your threat that you have never benn in Portugal before and you probabily will never be.
Actually we portuguese cannot complain of much criminality. With all that confusion about the case people thing that Portugal might be like South Africa or something and that's not true at all. Just, these things happen everywhere, that's all. Lots of children disappear in Portugal, like lots of children disappear in England or Germany or what you want every year.
I only said it is unfair for the other children that disappear because they dont seem to deserve the same efforts that the police is having for Madleine. I know money is need, but it is unfair anyway!
Anyway, I do not really believe it, but I hope that she is arriving well to her parents soon.
[/QUOTE]
hmm....not sure to many people would want to tour in a place that steals children all the time :-p
[/QUOTE]
I can see by your threat that you have never benn in Portugal before and you probabily will never be.
Actually we portuguese cannot complain of much criminality. With all that confusion about the case people thing that Portugal might be like South Africa or something and that's not true at all. Just, these things happen everywhere, that's all. Lots of children disappear in Portugal, like lots of children disappear in England or Germany or what you want every year.
I only said it is unfair for the other children that disappear because they dont seem to deserve the same efforts that the police is having for Madleine. I know money is need, but it is unfair anyway!