[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Sebastian wrote: [/QUOTENAME]
Irrelevant thesis: 'Too Much Love' is a song that had been recorded by Brian completely on his own for the solo project (he played piano, guitar and synths and did all of the vocals). It doesn't mean - at all - that Roger + John would outdo the rhythm performance found on 'Love Token', or that Brian's, Roger's or John's (or even Freddie's for that matter) keyboard abilities would be on par with Mike Moran's.[/QUOTE]
If you have a thesis completely irrelevant to my message, why bother quoting it?
Yes, you are quite right with your thesis: the content of the album will tell us nothing about the instrumental skills of any individuals. It will however tell us about... (surprise surprise) the content of the album, which is mediocre and sounds unfinished.
Additional production and outside opinions can only improve that, hence the Made In Heaven version of TMLWKY.
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[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<b><font color = "crimson"> ThomasQuinn wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]mike hunt wrote: [/QUOTENAME]Back to the light is a overall better album than Mr. bad guy. The most original and best work from a queen member outside of the band was easily freddie's barcelona. Back to the light is my second favorite. I won't even comment on back to the light being better than queen, that's just a joke. "I'm scared" is the worst song I'v ever heard. [/QUOTE]
Let's not forget Roger's "Happiness?", which was a damn solid album![/QUOTE] I'v never been a huge fan of roger's solo work, but electric fire was ok.
Let's not forget Roger's "Happiness?", which was a damn solid album![/QUOTE] I'v never been a huge fan of roger's solo work, but electric fire was ok.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME].*.Messenger: Jake Pyndle.*. wrote: [/QUOTENAME]A lot of the songs on Back To The Light sound rediculous, particularly the title track. Sounds like Brian doing a parody of himself. And I'm not a big fan on Brian's vocals anyway, too soft. Not a big fan on using female backing singers either. Not being sexist, it's just when I think a man is singing, I think they should have men singing backing vocals if they need any. Same with women. Too Much Love Will Kill You sounds too soft. Driven By You is a pathetic song. Last Horizon is a nice instrumental. The rest to me is filler. I'm just not a big fan of Brian's vocals. They seem to have no power, and I love Queen's version of Too Much Love Will Kill You far better than Brian's solo version. Vocally, and instrumentally.
I like Mr. Bad Guy better. I don't care if it's more dance oriented. I like that kind of music anyway.
Brian sings nice at times. I really like Leaving Home Ain't Easy but that of course is from a Queen album. Brian's a great song writer but not the best of vocalists, and he'd agree with that.
And besides, like a lot of people have mentioned, they compared Back To The Light to Mr. Bad Guy which many Queen fans don't really like much. Compare Back To The Light to Barcelona.[/QUOTE] I'm also not a huge fan of brians voice, and I agree about "driven by you" is not very good. The title track is ok, but brians voice sounds weak and strained. "one life" is decent, but boring. On the other hand "love token" kicks ass, and last horizon is perfect. This argument could go on forever, it's all opinion. You can't rip sebastion for his opinion, but I want to ask why he places Neil higher than John?...arn't you underating Mr. Deacon just a little sebastion?...remember millianare waltz?...Cozy vs roger is close, but in the early 90's roger could never play ressurection the way cozy did. The 70's roger is another story.
I like Mr. Bad Guy better. I don't care if it's more dance oriented. I like that kind of music anyway.
Brian sings nice at times. I really like Leaving Home Ain't Easy but that of course is from a Queen album. Brian's a great song writer but not the best of vocalists, and he'd agree with that.
And besides, like a lot of people have mentioned, they compared Back To The Light to Mr. Bad Guy which many Queen fans don't really like much. Compare Back To The Light to Barcelona.[/QUOTE] I'm also not a huge fan of brians voice, and I agree about "driven by you" is not very good. The title track is ok, but brians voice sounds weak and strained. "one life" is decent, but boring. On the other hand "love token" kicks ass, and last horizon is perfect. This argument could go on forever, it's all opinion. You can't rip sebastion for his opinion, but I want to ask why he places Neil higher than John?...arn't you underating Mr. Deacon just a little sebastion?...remember millianare waltz?...Cozy vs roger is close, but in the early 90's roger could never play ressurection the way cozy did. The 70's roger is another story.
"'The Dark' is Brian's best multi-tracking thing ever IMO"
I'd agree actually... usually, I say the best thing he did in that area is the big sounding section of All Dead, All Dead. I amend that to 'The Dark', depending on what mood I'm in!
I'd agree actually... usually, I say the best thing he did in that area is the big sounding section of All Dead, All Dead. I amend that to 'The Dark', depending on what mood I'm in!
> If you have a thesis completely irrelevant to my message, why bother quoting it?
What I meant is that *your* thesis was irrelevant because 'Too Much Love' was only one song off the album, and it doesn't mean that all tracks would've been better as Queen things. I think Brian was clever enough to give 'Headlong' and 'I Can't Live With You' to the band, because those are the ones that sounded better with Freddie on vocals (myself, I'd have put Cozy on drums and leave Roger just for vocal harmonies).
> Additional production and outside opinions can only improve that, hence the Made In Heaven version of TMLWKY.
BTTL had outside opinions where needed, and as I said, 'Too Much Love' is a different case (especially considering that it was going to be on a Queen album in the first place). 'Love Token' and 'Resurrection' are different cases: they do sound better with Brian's voice IMO, and Cozy's a much better drummer than Rog, which improves the quality of the tracks. 'Resurrection' sounds all right with that synth-bass, so it didn't need John at all, and 'Love Token' has Neil, who easily outdoes Deacy.
> You can't rip sebastion for his opinion, but I want to ask why he places Neil higher than John?...
It's Sebastian actually (with an "a"). I don't mean to be nitpicky, but I've actually seen my name spelt like that many times in this forum and it's annoying (I'm sure it's not your intention but still...).
Anyway, John is (or was?) an extraordinary bass player, and quite an underrated one too. But Neil's better, hands down - better technique and his playing is even more versatile (which is something they're both excellent at).
Roger's a wonderful drummer too, but Cozy was obviously better.
> I'd agree actually... usually, I say the best thing he did in that area is the big sounding section of All Dead, All Dead.
'All Dead' is indeed one of those songs that sounds better with Roger on drums, than it would with Cozy. Same for the bass (John vs Neil). I suppose that Brian wrote the Queen songs with Roger+John in mind, so he arranged in a way that sounded better with them.
The only thing I would "Queen-ise" in 'Back To The Light' would be the backing vocals: imagine 'Resurrection' interlude with Roger, Freddie, Brian and Chris multi-tracking each part; 'Love Token' would have sounded brill with that combination too. 'Too Much Love' and 'Driven By You', OTOH, are perfect with just Brian IMO.
What I meant is that *your* thesis was irrelevant because 'Too Much Love' was only one song off the album, and it doesn't mean that all tracks would've been better as Queen things. I think Brian was clever enough to give 'Headlong' and 'I Can't Live With You' to the band, because those are the ones that sounded better with Freddie on vocals (myself, I'd have put Cozy on drums and leave Roger just for vocal harmonies).
> Additional production and outside opinions can only improve that, hence the Made In Heaven version of TMLWKY.
BTTL had outside opinions where needed, and as I said, 'Too Much Love' is a different case (especially considering that it was going to be on a Queen album in the first place). 'Love Token' and 'Resurrection' are different cases: they do sound better with Brian's voice IMO, and Cozy's a much better drummer than Rog, which improves the quality of the tracks. 'Resurrection' sounds all right with that synth-bass, so it didn't need John at all, and 'Love Token' has Neil, who easily outdoes Deacy.
> You can't rip sebastion for his opinion, but I want to ask why he places Neil higher than John?...
It's Sebastian actually (with an "a"). I don't mean to be nitpicky, but I've actually seen my name spelt like that many times in this forum and it's annoying (I'm sure it's not your intention but still...).
Anyway, John is (or was?) an extraordinary bass player, and quite an underrated one too. But Neil's better, hands down - better technique and his playing is even more versatile (which is something they're both excellent at).
Roger's a wonderful drummer too, but Cozy was obviously better.
> I'd agree actually... usually, I say the best thing he did in that area is the big sounding section of All Dead, All Dead.
'All Dead' is indeed one of those songs that sounds better with Roger on drums, than it would with Cozy. Same for the bass (John vs Neil). I suppose that Brian wrote the Queen songs with Roger+John in mind, so he arranged in a way that sounded better with them.
The only thing I would "Queen-ise" in 'Back To The Light' would be the backing vocals: imagine 'Resurrection' interlude with Roger, Freddie, Brian and Chris multi-tracking each part; 'Love Token' would have sounded brill with that combination too. 'Too Much Love' and 'Driven By You', OTOH, are perfect with just Brian IMO.
I think BTTL is a more unfocused album than MBG, which is why I have a tough time with it. Some nice songs, but looking back, The Dark is from 1980's Flash Gordon sessions, TMLWKY is mid 80s and Nothing but blue is around that time of Freddie's death. I think it's hard to have a coherent album when you're working with material over a 12-15 year period. At least Freddie's album was primarily a synth dance thing that was written in a small window of time in the mid 80s. Unlike Sebastian, I didn't like the sound of Cozy Powell and Neil Murray playing with Brian, not that they're not superb, or even better than Roger and John, I just didn't like the sound of the drums or bass in comparison to ow Roger and John were recorded. Only fair I suppose as I've heard their sound with Brian for so many years.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<b><font color = "crimson"> ThomasQuinn wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]mike hunt wrote: [/QUOTENAME]Back to the light is a overall better album than Mr. bad guy. The most original and best work from a queen member outside of the band was easily freddie's barcelona. Back to the light is my second favorite. I won't even comment on back to the light being better than queen, that's just a joke. "I'm scared" is the worst song I'v ever heard. [/QUOTE]
Let's not forget Roger's "Happiness?", which was a damn solid album![/QUOTE]
Amen!
It was the first Roger solo album i owned and it's still my favorite one.
Let's not forget Roger's "Happiness?", which was a damn solid album![/QUOTE]
Amen!
It was the first Roger solo album i owned and it's still my favorite one.
MBD and BTTL are both crap : "Spice" from the Spice Girls is easily the best album of all times...
Actually, I disagree: 'Spice World' is a much stronger album than 'Spice', and both Sporty and Posh improved greatly from one recording to the other. Plus the instrumentation on 'World' is more professional.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<b><font color="#FF1493">The Fairy King wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<b><font color = "crimson"> ThomasQuinn wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]mike hunt wrote: [/QUOTENAME]Back to the light is a overall better album than Mr. bad guy. The most original and best work from a queen member outside of the band was easily freddie's barcelona. Back to the light is my second favorite. I won't even comment on back to the light being better than queen, that's just a joke. "I'm scared" is the worst song I'v ever heard. [/QUOTE]
Let's not forget Roger's "Happiness?", which was a damn solid album![/QUOTE]
Amen!
It was the first Roger solo album i owned and it's still my favorite one. [/QUOTE]
"Happiness?" has, in my opinion, the most catchy starting of any of the solo projects by any Queen member. Everytime I play it I listen from "Nazis 1994" til "Foreign Sand", wich means 5 songs, as a unique whole song with different sections. I cannot random and go from, for example, "Revelations" to "The Key". It would break the ... spirit or whatever you call it ... of this album´s starting section.
Regarding Brian´s, BTTLL is a good album that "sounds" like a whole thing (like Happiness) to me, not as the (good) collection of songs that is "Another World". BUT, always in my modest oppinion, "Another World" has one song that makes me always wonder what would have been if it was sung by Freddie: China Belle, wich is to me the most Queenie of Brian´s solo songs.
And some words about Freddie´s work. I do agree that the most original and daring solo work from any Queen member is "Barcelona" (not saying this for being my hometown). Songs like "La Japonaise" are simply superb artworks.
And "Mr Bad Guy" is a fantastic work, too. Just for the fact that it contains Freddie´s voice at his peak, as somebody said in a previous post. That´s all I need. Maybe sounds dated, yes, if you don´t feel confortable with that 80´s sound (it´s not my case), but I find it truly funny.
cheers everybody !
Let's not forget Roger's "Happiness?", which was a damn solid album![/QUOTE]
Amen!
It was the first Roger solo album i owned and it's still my favorite one. [/QUOTE]
"Happiness?" has, in my opinion, the most catchy starting of any of the solo projects by any Queen member. Everytime I play it I listen from "Nazis 1994" til "Foreign Sand", wich means 5 songs, as a unique whole song with different sections. I cannot random and go from, for example, "Revelations" to "The Key". It would break the ... spirit or whatever you call it ... of this album´s starting section.
Regarding Brian´s, BTTLL is a good album that "sounds" like a whole thing (like Happiness) to me, not as the (good) collection of songs that is "Another World". BUT, always in my modest oppinion, "Another World" has one song that makes me always wonder what would have been if it was sung by Freddie: China Belle, wich is to me the most Queenie of Brian´s solo songs.
And some words about Freddie´s work. I do agree that the most original and daring solo work from any Queen member is "Barcelona" (not saying this for being my hometown). Songs like "La Japonaise" are simply superb artworks.
And "Mr Bad Guy" is a fantastic work, too. Just for the fact that it contains Freddie´s voice at his peak, as somebody said in a previous post. That´s all I need. Maybe sounds dated, yes, if you don´t feel confortable with that 80´s sound (it´s not my case), but I find it truly funny.
cheers everybody !
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Sebastian wrote: [/QUOTENAME]What I meant is that *your* thesis was irrelevant because 'Too Much Love' was only one song off the album, and it doesn't mean that all tracks would've been better as Queen things. I think Brian was clever enough to give 'Headlong' and 'I Can't Live With You' to the band, because those are the ones that sounded better with Freddie on vocals (myself, I'd have put Cozy on drums and leave Roger just for vocal harmonies).[/QUOTE]
You need to start paying attention to what's been written, even in your own posts. Absolutely no-one in this topic brought to question the quality of musicianship on the BTTL or Queen albums. That was the irrelevant thesis of yours on which you spent your entire reply to me.
It had absolutely nothing to do with my point (about TWLWKY sounding better on the MIH album), because I never mentioned anybody's musical abilities.
If I call the songs on BTTL half-finished ideas almost worthy of being classed as demos, where does it imply that there is something wrong with the quality of the backing musicians? Or is this all just your attempt to throw a smokescreen around the real issue, that the songs have plenty of weak points that could have been addressed?
You need to start paying attention to what's been written, even in your own posts. Absolutely no-one in this topic brought to question the quality of musicianship on the BTTL or Queen albums. That was the irrelevant thesis of yours on which you spent your entire reply to me.
It had absolutely nothing to do with my point (about TWLWKY sounding better on the MIH album), because I never mentioned anybody's musical abilities.
If I call the songs on BTTL half-finished ideas almost worthy of being classed as demos, where does it imply that there is something wrong with the quality of the backing musicians? Or is this all just your attempt to throw a smokescreen around the real issue, that the songs have plenty of weak points that could have been addressed?
I would have to say Mr. Bad Guy is better then Back to the Light. I just think the songs are more catchy and Freddie has by far a much better voice then Brian. I think " The Great Pretender" Is Freddie's best for solo work. "My Defence" Is a absolute lovely song. Truely Beautiful.
Thanks for listening.
Cindy
Thanks for listening.
Cindy
[QUOTE]You need to start paying attention to what's been written, even in your own posts.[/QUOTE]
That's actually another "irrelevant thesis". But anyway, to describe it step by step, you wrote "The ultimate proof of this (and for the fact that Queen albums are better than either of these solo outputs) is the Made In Heaven album, which features songs from both of these albums which are miles better than the original versions...".
In that statement you consider that MIH featuring songs from both 'Bad Guy' and BTTL is "the ultimate proof", which is what I refer to as the 'irrelevant thesis'. The reason is that even if 'Too Much Love' sounded better as a Queen track (which is a matter of opinion, and I for one prefer Brian's solo), it doesn't mean that every track on BTTL would sound better as a Queen thing, the reason being the musical professionalism of Cozy and the others (which I didn't imply had been "brought to question").
[QUOTE]If I call the songs on BTTL half-finished ideas almost worthy of being classed as demos, where does it imply that there is something wrong with the quality of the backing musicians?[/QUOTE]
Nowhere, but then again, I didn't say you'd implied that. It seems I'm not the only one who's got to "start paying attention to what's been written, even in (one's) own posts".
And then again, it's not a fact that those songs were "half-finished ideas almost worthy of being classed as demos", it's just an opinion, just as my opinion (which can be agreed or disagreed with) is that, if those numbers had been "half-finished ideas almost worthy of being classed as demos" they wouldn't have been released in the first place, considering how meticulous Dr May is. They're finished versions with loads of effort behind, regardless of the different opinions generated by them.
[QUOTE]Or is this all just your attempt to throw a smokescreen around the real issue[/QUOTE]
Not at all. Personal attacks (even those mild ones, like criticising one's reading comprehension), OTOH, are something I'd consider an "attempt to throw a smokescreen around the real issue".
[QUOTE]that the songs have plenty of weak points that could have been addressed?[/QUOTE]
Those weak points are merely opinions, which can't be absolutes. In MY opinion, a weak point of Queen live in the 80s was the vocal warm-up bit Fred did with the audience; in someone else opinion, that could be a plus. No right or wrong there.
Same here: you may not like the sound and (relative) simplicity of Brian's 'Too Much Love', but that's very different from stating that the Queen version is categorically better and that it's an "ultimate proof for the fact that Queen albums are better than either of these solo outputs". And THAT is what I meant by 'irrelevant thesis'.
That's actually another "irrelevant thesis". But anyway, to describe it step by step, you wrote "The ultimate proof of this (and for the fact that Queen albums are better than either of these solo outputs) is the Made In Heaven album, which features songs from both of these albums which are miles better than the original versions...".
In that statement you consider that MIH featuring songs from both 'Bad Guy' and BTTL is "the ultimate proof", which is what I refer to as the 'irrelevant thesis'. The reason is that even if 'Too Much Love' sounded better as a Queen track (which is a matter of opinion, and I for one prefer Brian's solo), it doesn't mean that every track on BTTL would sound better as a Queen thing, the reason being the musical professionalism of Cozy and the others (which I didn't imply had been "brought to question").
[QUOTE]If I call the songs on BTTL half-finished ideas almost worthy of being classed as demos, where does it imply that there is something wrong with the quality of the backing musicians?[/QUOTE]
Nowhere, but then again, I didn't say you'd implied that. It seems I'm not the only one who's got to "start paying attention to what's been written, even in (one's) own posts".
And then again, it's not a fact that those songs were "half-finished ideas almost worthy of being classed as demos", it's just an opinion, just as my opinion (which can be agreed or disagreed with) is that, if those numbers had been "half-finished ideas almost worthy of being classed as demos" they wouldn't have been released in the first place, considering how meticulous Dr May is. They're finished versions with loads of effort behind, regardless of the different opinions generated by them.
[QUOTE]Or is this all just your attempt to throw a smokescreen around the real issue[/QUOTE]
Not at all. Personal attacks (even those mild ones, like criticising one's reading comprehension), OTOH, are something I'd consider an "attempt to throw a smokescreen around the real issue".
[QUOTE]that the songs have plenty of weak points that could have been addressed?[/QUOTE]
Those weak points are merely opinions, which can't be absolutes. In MY opinion, a weak point of Queen live in the 80s was the vocal warm-up bit Fred did with the audience; in someone else opinion, that could be a plus. No right or wrong there.
Same here: you may not like the sound and (relative) simplicity of Brian's 'Too Much Love', but that's very different from stating that the Queen version is categorically better and that it's an "ultimate proof for the fact that Queen albums are better than either of these solo outputs". And THAT is what I meant by 'irrelevant thesis'.
Sebastian:
How could one prove that the BTTL or MBG songs would be better as Queen versions? By making Queen versions of them, and asking what people think about them. Which one of them have been made into Queen versions? Made In Heaven, I Was Born To Love You, and Too Much Love Will Kill You. Which of them sound better as Queen versions rather than solo versions? All of them, according to just about everybody here at QZ.
That means, that according to all existing proof (as opposed to speculation what the other songs might sound like if they were ever remade) the second opinion and additional production on the songs has improved them. The "ultimate proof" is that listeners prefer the Queen versions over the solo versions.
That much isn't about personal opinion, wouldn't you agree?
(We can just ignore the rest of this argument because it's all about you adoring Brian's work, and me not caring about it.)
How could one prove that the BTTL or MBG songs would be better as Queen versions? By making Queen versions of them, and asking what people think about them. Which one of them have been made into Queen versions? Made In Heaven, I Was Born To Love You, and Too Much Love Will Kill You. Which of them sound better as Queen versions rather than solo versions? All of them, according to just about everybody here at QZ.
That means, that according to all existing proof (as opposed to speculation what the other songs might sound like if they were ever remade) the second opinion and additional production on the songs has improved them. The "ultimate proof" is that listeners prefer the Queen versions over the solo versions.
That much isn't about personal opinion, wouldn't you agree?
(We can just ignore the rest of this argument because it's all about you adoring Brian's work, and me not caring about it.)
> How could one prove that the BTTL or MBG songs would be better as Queen versions? By making Queen versions of them, and asking what people think about them.
On MBG the plural applies, on BTTL it doesn't, because it's just one song (and one that'd been recorded for 'The Miracle' first), which doesn't mean that "BTTL songs would be better as Queen versions".
> Which of them sound better as Queen versions rather than solo versions? All of them, according to just about everybody here at QZ.
Wrong. There have been several threads about "which is your favourite 'Too Much Love'?" (or something to that effect) and it's sort of a toss-up. Some like Brian's better, some prefer Freddie's. Thus, it IS "about personal opinion".
Regarding Mr Bad Guy, indeed a vast majority of QZ seems to prefer Queen versions, which still doesn't mean they're absolutely "better".
On MBG the plural applies, on BTTL it doesn't, because it's just one song (and one that'd been recorded for 'The Miracle' first), which doesn't mean that "BTTL songs would be better as Queen versions".
> Which of them sound better as Queen versions rather than solo versions? All of them, according to just about everybody here at QZ.
Wrong. There have been several threads about "which is your favourite 'Too Much Love'?" (or something to that effect) and it's sort of a toss-up. Some like Brian's better, some prefer Freddie's. Thus, it IS "about personal opinion".
Regarding Mr Bad Guy, indeed a vast majority of QZ seems to prefer Queen versions, which still doesn't mean they're absolutely "better".