[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Zebonka12 wrote: [/QUOTENAME]...JSS just hand over the goods - it's not even yours anyway...[/QUOTE]
What gives you that idea?
Besides, I want a new house. Why don't you hand me over yours?
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If your not going to give it to him I don't suppose your going to share it here neither?
...beats head against wall in frustrated disbelief...some more...
"What gives you that idea?"
I don't recall seeing you in the studio recording any of it.
"Besides, I want a new house. Why don't you hand me over yours?"
Because you haven't helped to build bits of it.
I might go on a trek to the Titanic and 'find' a neat pair of mens shoes, but they sure ain't mine!
I don't recall seeing you in the studio recording any of it.
"Besides, I want a new house. Why don't you hand me over yours?"
Because you haven't helped to build bits of it.
I might go on a trek to the Titanic and 'find' a neat pair of mens shoes, but they sure ain't mine!
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Zebonka12 wrote: [/QUOTENAME]"What gives you that idea?"
I don't recall seeing you in the studio recording any of it.
"Besides, I want a new house. Why don't you hand me over yours?"
Because you haven't helped to build bits of it.
I might go on a trek to the Titanic and 'find' a neat pair of mens shoes, but they sure ain't mine![/QUOTE]
How many times do I have to say this?
I was NOT in the studio when Picasso painted his 'Le Reve' either, but, if the painting legitimately came up for sale, via auction, then I would, by law - OWN that painting.
This is called transfer of ownership. This works because I live in a Capitalist society, and I have legally PAID for the privilege of ownership - and if that painting increases in value over thirty years, even Picasso’s grandchildren would have no claim on MY property because I legitimately own the painting.
I also legitimately own my home, my car, my television etc because I also paid for them. Do you want me to hand those over too?
However, I am OPEN to negotiation, and I have generously OFFERED MY TAPE up to Queen Productions - if THEY desire it. I am NOT keeping anthing from them. But, (and I hope this is viewed in context) because of past experience, I am loath to hand over anything without some sort of caveats in place to protect ALL parties. Is that stll being too unreasonable for you - or do you think I am being fair?
Why is that so difficult to understand - and why does that make ME the villian of the piece? What more would you have me do?
I don't recall seeing you in the studio recording any of it.
"Besides, I want a new house. Why don't you hand me over yours?"
Because you haven't helped to build bits of it.
I might go on a trek to the Titanic and 'find' a neat pair of mens shoes, but they sure ain't mine![/QUOTE]
How many times do I have to say this?
I was NOT in the studio when Picasso painted his 'Le Reve' either, but, if the painting legitimately came up for sale, via auction, then I would, by law - OWN that painting.
This is called transfer of ownership. This works because I live in a Capitalist society, and I have legally PAID for the privilege of ownership - and if that painting increases in value over thirty years, even Picasso’s grandchildren would have no claim on MY property because I legitimately own the painting.
I also legitimately own my home, my car, my television etc because I also paid for them. Do you want me to hand those over too?
However, I am OPEN to negotiation, and I have generously OFFERED MY TAPE up to Queen Productions - if THEY desire it. I am NOT keeping anthing from them. But, (and I hope this is viewed in context) because of past experience, I am loath to hand over anything without some sort of caveats in place to protect ALL parties. Is that stll being too unreasonable for you - or do you think I am being fair?
Why is that so difficult to understand - and why does that make ME the villian of the piece? What more would you have me do?
"How many times do I have to say this?"
Probably less than 5, but I don't think that'll stop you...
"I was NOT in the studio when Picasso painted his 'Le Reve' either, but, if the painting legitimately came up for sale, via auction, then I would, by law - OWN that painting."
Different circumstances!! I'm referring to demos and things that really shouldn't be in the hands of anyone but those who recorded them. Of course I love to listen to these things, I find them fascinating. But one shouldn't get all Me Me Me and Mine Mine Mine over something they shouldn't have in the first place.
"I also legitimately own my home, my car, my television etc because I also paid for them. Do you want me to hand those over too?"
Non sequitur.
"However, I am OPEN to negotiation, and I have generously OFFERED MY TAPE up to Queen Productions - if THEY desire it. I am NOT keeping anthing from them. But, (and I hope this is viewed in context) because of past experience, I am loath to hand over anything without some sort of caveats in place to protect ALL parties. Is that stll being too unreasonable for you - or do you think I am being fair? "
Can you STOP typing like my HERO William SHATNER?
No, look - you've been bitten by this asshats before and I quite agree with you on this score.
"Why is that so difficult to understand - and why does that make ME the villian of the piece?"
Who the hell says I thought you were the villain? I'd happily give a lot more shit to GB, he's earned it. I'm merely pointing out that you can only be so possessive over stuff you weren't meant to have in the first place. I think you have me mistaken with someone who has some kind of emotional investment in all this bullshit.
Probably less than 5, but I don't think that'll stop you...
"I was NOT in the studio when Picasso painted his 'Le Reve' either, but, if the painting legitimately came up for sale, via auction, then I would, by law - OWN that painting."
Different circumstances!! I'm referring to demos and things that really shouldn't be in the hands of anyone but those who recorded them. Of course I love to listen to these things, I find them fascinating. But one shouldn't get all Me Me Me and Mine Mine Mine over something they shouldn't have in the first place.
"I also legitimately own my home, my car, my television etc because I also paid for them. Do you want me to hand those over too?"
Non sequitur.
"However, I am OPEN to negotiation, and I have generously OFFERED MY TAPE up to Queen Productions - if THEY desire it. I am NOT keeping anthing from them. But, (and I hope this is viewed in context) because of past experience, I am loath to hand over anything without some sort of caveats in place to protect ALL parties. Is that stll being too unreasonable for you - or do you think I am being fair? "
Can you STOP typing like my HERO William SHATNER?
No, look - you've been bitten by this asshats before and I quite agree with you on this score.
"Why is that so difficult to understand - and why does that make ME the villian of the piece?"
Who the hell says I thought you were the villain? I'd happily give a lot more shit to GB, he's earned it. I'm merely pointing out that you can only be so possessive over stuff you weren't meant to have in the first place. I think you have me mistaken with someone who has some kind of emotional investment in all this bullshit.
Yeah, I love JSS's analogies cause they're always so rubbish! lol But seriously, I like to think I have a solution to this passing of copies to QP...
Okay, seriously, think about this one JSS.
I understand why QP would want the master to reproduce a great sound. However, they don't like copies from joe bloggs, i.e. you. It's a quality thing.
Now, I, being the engineer that I am, would love to do quality copies IF...you were being serious about that JSS. That means you can keep the originals and the copies of certain items of your choosing go to QP.
Now, I am open to doing these transfers of items in your possession. But of course, this is up to you.
Adam.
Okay, seriously, think about this one JSS.
I understand why QP would want the master to reproduce a great sound. However, they don't like copies from joe bloggs, i.e. you. It's a quality thing.
Now, I, being the engineer that I am, would love to do quality copies IF...you were being serious about that JSS. That means you can keep the originals and the copies of certain items of your choosing go to QP.
Now, I am open to doing these transfers of items in your possession. But of course, this is up to you.
Adam.
Zebonka: '...I'm referring to demos and things that really shouldn't be in the hands of anyone but those who recorded them... something... (you) ...shouldn't have in the first place'.
Forgive me, but please explain exactly why I 'shouldn't have... (these) ...in the first place...' - if I am the sole legal owner?
This physical tape was NOT recorded in a studio and never did belong to QPL at any stage.
Queen were paid (commissioned) by the BBC for this live performance, so QPL have NO legal claim or stake - as they (like every other worker in the UK) were paid for their hire, and subsequent broadcasting rights. They did not at any stage have ownership of this artefact. The manufactured article (in this case a reel of tape), until re-sale, remains the property of the patron – and not the employee. (And that is why I likened this tape to Picasso's 'Le Reve').
Now, I OWN this artefact - legally, morally, philosophically and most importantly materially, and what's more important, QPL could have bought this reel, just as easily as I did, but they did not.
However, when such items do periodically come up for sale, everyone, (even you or QPL) has the same equal opportunities to purchase (Especially at public auction).
Things from Beatles acetates to bits of Hendrix's guitar and Elvis Presley's shoes - from Alan Ball's World Cup Winner's medal to Paul Gascoign's shirts – and if memory serves me correctly, even Freddie's car was offered up on e-bay last year. There are a myriad of reasons why recorded demos are NOT in the hands of those who recorded them - but the point is - they are not. It's not my fault, nor did I invent the rules. I just bought this reel the same as I would buy a packet of cigars.
Adam Baboolal: Good try, but there is no way I would ever get involved with a third party. (Especially with someone who thinks my communication skills are ‘...rubbish!’).
If this is an issue it is one between Queen productions and myself. I for my part, have offered up my at end. The remainder is now up to them.
Other than that, as I have previously asked, what more would you that I do?
Forgive me, but please explain exactly why I 'shouldn't have... (these) ...in the first place...' - if I am the sole legal owner?
This physical tape was NOT recorded in a studio and never did belong to QPL at any stage.
Queen were paid (commissioned) by the BBC for this live performance, so QPL have NO legal claim or stake - as they (like every other worker in the UK) were paid for their hire, and subsequent broadcasting rights. They did not at any stage have ownership of this artefact. The manufactured article (in this case a reel of tape), until re-sale, remains the property of the patron – and not the employee. (And that is why I likened this tape to Picasso's 'Le Reve').
Now, I OWN this artefact - legally, morally, philosophically and most importantly materially, and what's more important, QPL could have bought this reel, just as easily as I did, but they did not.
However, when such items do periodically come up for sale, everyone, (even you or QPL) has the same equal opportunities to purchase (Especially at public auction).
Things from Beatles acetates to bits of Hendrix's guitar and Elvis Presley's shoes - from Alan Ball's World Cup Winner's medal to Paul Gascoign's shirts – and if memory serves me correctly, even Freddie's car was offered up on e-bay last year. There are a myriad of reasons why recorded demos are NOT in the hands of those who recorded them - but the point is - they are not. It's not my fault, nor did I invent the rules. I just bought this reel the same as I would buy a packet of cigars.
Adam Baboolal: Good try, but there is no way I would ever get involved with a third party. (Especially with someone who thinks my communication skills are ‘...rubbish!’).
If this is an issue it is one between Queen productions and myself. I for my part, have offered up my at end. The remainder is now up to them.
Other than that, as I have previously asked, what more would you that I do?
A package of cigarettes doesn't have any artists rights.. It's not that the artists can claim the cd's you bought back.
But it is illegal to make money from the music you bought (if it's official or not official stuff) because it falls under the artists protection laws. It means that everything an artists writes or records it is protected.
So unless you pay for the rights to distribute it you can not make money from it
But it is illegal to make money from the music you bought (if it's official or not official stuff) because it falls under the artists protection laws. It means that everything an artists writes or records it is protected.
So unless you pay for the rights to distribute it you can not make money from it
Fried Chicken: '...So unless you pay for the rights to distribute it you can not make money from it'.
Good point. As a work of art (or music) I have not distributed this - nor have I made any money from it. I actually bought this tape like I would buy any other tape, LP or CD - to listen to the music - NOT as an investment. Therefore, at present it sits proudly amid the rest of my collection.
However, what I DID purchase (legally I continue to add) was a physical reel-to-reel tape. That is without dispute what I own - a physical artefact - one which I can re-record over, or even set a match to - if I so desire, because it is MY property to do with what I will.
So if anyone else wants to purchase this reel (and that includes Queen Productions) they are more than welcome - I would sell - exactly as I bought.
As I said above, I bought myself a 'thing', just like thousands before me, and thousands will continue to do so, and even IF I make a profit from that process, I have committed no wrong.
There is nothing more to discuss really, other than the philosophical rights and wrongs of a Capitalist society, and although I agree it is morally wrong that half the world should starve to death, while the other half approaches mortal obesity, I do not think this is the correct forum to discuss the Marxist alternative.
Good point. As a work of art (or music) I have not distributed this - nor have I made any money from it. I actually bought this tape like I would buy any other tape, LP or CD - to listen to the music - NOT as an investment. Therefore, at present it sits proudly amid the rest of my collection.
However, what I DID purchase (legally I continue to add) was a physical reel-to-reel tape. That is without dispute what I own - a physical artefact - one which I can re-record over, or even set a match to - if I so desire, because it is MY property to do with what I will.
So if anyone else wants to purchase this reel (and that includes Queen Productions) they are more than welcome - I would sell - exactly as I bought.
As I said above, I bought myself a 'thing', just like thousands before me, and thousands will continue to do so, and even IF I make a profit from that process, I have committed no wrong.
There is nothing more to discuss really, other than the philosophical rights and wrongs of a Capitalist society, and although I agree it is morally wrong that half the world should starve to death, while the other half approaches mortal obesity, I do not think this is the correct forum to discuss the Marxist alternative.
"Now, I OWN this artefact"
Are you familiar with the phrase 'can't take it with you' ?
"There are a myriad of reasons why these demos are NOT in the hands of those who recorded them - but the point is - they are not. It's not my fault, not did I invent the rules. I just bought them the same as I would buy a packet of cigars."
Honestly.... for your time and for your trouble in buying/safekeeping these rarities, I believe it'd only be fair for QP to not act like they have in the past (ie. Incompetent jackasses). So you've rights to be annoyed at them.
At the same time; your attitude is beneath you. If you can't get things done with QP, seek some other avenue. Or go into obscurity. But this form of shit-slinging between you and GB is only so much nonsense.
"This is between me, Queen productions and no one else."
You forgot to add 'but I'll gladly wax lyrical about it all on a public forum'.
Are you familiar with the phrase 'can't take it with you' ?
"There are a myriad of reasons why these demos are NOT in the hands of those who recorded them - but the point is - they are not. It's not my fault, not did I invent the rules. I just bought them the same as I would buy a packet of cigars."
Honestly.... for your time and for your trouble in buying/safekeeping these rarities, I believe it'd only be fair for QP to not act like they have in the past (ie. Incompetent jackasses). So you've rights to be annoyed at them.
At the same time; your attitude is beneath you. If you can't get things done with QP, seek some other avenue. Or go into obscurity. But this form of shit-slinging between you and GB is only so much nonsense.
"This is between me, Queen productions and no one else."
You forgot to add 'but I'll gladly wax lyrical about it all on a public forum'.
Zebonka12: I answered your questions honestly and reasonably, because I thought that is what you wanted from me. If it was not – then I apologise. It was certainly not meant as a form of ‘showing-off’ or waxing lyrical. You asked - I answered. I thought that was the polite way to behave. However, if you wish me to stop replying then I will gladly do so. Remember I have provided all these answers on a voluntary basis, so it would be just as easy for me to say nothing.
I have not slung ‘shit’ at anyone else, nor have I deteriorated into name-calling or foul language, as I thought I would be open and candid, and allow for informed and reasoned debate. If I 'read' that reasoning wrong, then again I apologise.
I have not retaliated against Greg’s rants (and I hate being perceived as doing so) – rather yet again, I thought I provided reasonable counter viewpoints, as I believe that in a democracy both parties should be permitted their say – without prejudice – but I do not view that as being either argumentative or controversial. On the contrary, I view debate as both healthy and productive. I would also like to point out that although I have replied to several such threads, I have only instigated one re: gauging the 'zone's opinion on an official 'Golder's Green' release, and that too was without malice or contempt.
However, I do agree with you. 'I cannot take it with me'. But even if I did, and was cremated with all my ‘treasures’ in my coffin with me, this would be but a drop in the ocean as compared to what is in the Queen vaults and will never see the light of day - EVER.
On the other hand, if you really are that desperate for a copy of the ‘Golders Green’ concert, you can find one here:
http://www.queenzone.com/queenzone/forumnew/forum_topic_view.aspx?Q=953653
So I am not keeping anything back from you (or anyone else for that matter). I have always said this, however, I get a great feeling of resentment (which I confess could be wrong) that I am holding onto something which should be shared with others, and while I agree with that to some extent, I think the real anger is transferred from QPL as they are the ones who have so much to offer other than re-re-releases – and like us all, they cannot take it with them either.
I have not slung ‘shit’ at anyone else, nor have I deteriorated into name-calling or foul language, as I thought I would be open and candid, and allow for informed and reasoned debate. If I 'read' that reasoning wrong, then again I apologise.
I have not retaliated against Greg’s rants (and I hate being perceived as doing so) – rather yet again, I thought I provided reasonable counter viewpoints, as I believe that in a democracy both parties should be permitted their say – without prejudice – but I do not view that as being either argumentative or controversial. On the contrary, I view debate as both healthy and productive. I would also like to point out that although I have replied to several such threads, I have only instigated one re: gauging the 'zone's opinion on an official 'Golder's Green' release, and that too was without malice or contempt.
However, I do agree with you. 'I cannot take it with me'. But even if I did, and was cremated with all my ‘treasures’ in my coffin with me, this would be but a drop in the ocean as compared to what is in the Queen vaults and will never see the light of day - EVER.
On the other hand, if you really are that desperate for a copy of the ‘Golders Green’ concert, you can find one here:
http://www.queenzone.com/queenzone/forumnew/forum_topic_view.aspx?Q=953653
So I am not keeping anything back from you (or anyone else for that matter). I have always said this, however, I get a great feeling of resentment (which I confess could be wrong) that I am holding onto something which should be shared with others, and while I agree with that to some extent, I think the real anger is transferred from QPL as they are the ones who have so much to offer other than re-re-releases – and like us all, they cannot take it with them either.
"But even if I did, and was cremated with all my ‘treasures’ in my coffin with me..."
Haha.
Born in Arizona, Moved to Babylonia ...
Haha.
Born in Arizona, Moved to Babylonia ...
JSS: Just to cover a couple of things you said, as I'm up to my eyeballs in flu medication at the moment and can't concentrate....
"I answered your questions honestly and reasonably, because I thought that is what you wanted from me. If it was not – then I apologise. It was certainly not meant as a form of ‘showing-off’ or waxing lyrical. You asked - I answered."
Well met, but that's not what I was on about. I mean the whole dialogue that's carried on for months 'n' whatnot; I didn't mean 'waxing lyrical' in reference to what you'd said to me.
"On the other hand, if you really are that desperate for a copy of the ‘Golders Green’ concert"
Sorry man, barking up the wrong tree here!! I stopped chasing up non-official Queen stuff a while ago now... though I still nag people for Face it Alone because I think it's funny.
Seriously... all I'm getting at is that there's opportunity for positive action on both sides of the fence. If QP aren't big enough human beings to do it, then it might as well be you! And don't interpret that as an 'upload everything' (that'd be more my style - just to shit people off a bit.....)
I simply mean.. whatever you wind up doing, it doesn't need to involve bickering with that GB so-and-so. Sit on your rarities, set fire to your rarities, sell your rarities to someone in a move that'd upset QP.... do what you will with your rarities, but this place has seen enough threads on the matter I think - and it'd be a cold day in hell before you get reasonable treatment from QP concerning any of this.
"I answered your questions honestly and reasonably, because I thought that is what you wanted from me. If it was not – then I apologise. It was certainly not meant as a form of ‘showing-off’ or waxing lyrical. You asked - I answered."
Well met, but that's not what I was on about. I mean the whole dialogue that's carried on for months 'n' whatnot; I didn't mean 'waxing lyrical' in reference to what you'd said to me.
"On the other hand, if you really are that desperate for a copy of the ‘Golders Green’ concert"
Sorry man, barking up the wrong tree here!! I stopped chasing up non-official Queen stuff a while ago now... though I still nag people for Face it Alone because I think it's funny.
Seriously... all I'm getting at is that there's opportunity for positive action on both sides of the fence. If QP aren't big enough human beings to do it, then it might as well be you! And don't interpret that as an 'upload everything' (that'd be more my style - just to shit people off a bit.....)
I simply mean.. whatever you wind up doing, it doesn't need to involve bickering with that GB so-and-so. Sit on your rarities, set fire to your rarities, sell your rarities to someone in a move that'd upset QP.... do what you will with your rarities, but this place has seen enough threads on the matter I think - and it'd be a cold day in hell before you get reasonable treatment from QP concerning any of this.
Well John...I'm not sure what to think now. I had been reading your initial posts thinking that you wanted to give them some recordings that you have. But after calling me a "3rd party", I now realise that you don't want to send anything.
Next time, just say, -it's my stuff and I don't want to let any of it out of my sight-. Instead of saying, "However, I am OPEN to negotiation, and I have generously OFFERED MY TAPE up to Queen Productions - if THEY desire it. I am NOT keeping anthing from them." "...because of past experience, I am loath to hand over anything without some sort of caveats in place to protect ALL parties."
A 3rd party? No, John. I wouldn't call anyone here something so official and cold. A QZ'er, for instance, is far nicer.
Adam.
Next time, just say, -it's my stuff and I don't want to let any of it out of my sight-. Instead of saying, "However, I am OPEN to negotiation, and I have generously OFFERED MY TAPE up to Queen Productions - if THEY desire it. I am NOT keeping anthing from them." "...because of past experience, I am loath to hand over anything without some sort of caveats in place to protect ALL parties."
A 3rd party? No, John. I wouldn't call anyone here something so official and cold. A QZ'er, for instance, is far nicer.
Adam.