> Yeah Brian did a big part in songwriting of "Queen", but i donnow.. Maybe that's also a deal of a taste?
Yes and no... some things are of course subjective (some people would prefer 'Ga Ga' to 'Bo Rhap', for instance), some aren't.
> 1989 The Miracle - Credited to Freddie, but I think that Brian had a lot more to do with it than he would admit.
At least in musical terms, it's got Freddie's fingerprints all over. Brian (and Roger and John) of course had lyrical input.
> ANd as for "Body language", you know, it's OK to have a not-very-creative period in time
Actually, 'Body Language' isn't THAT disposable, it's got some clever bits (in the songwriting department).
> Roger's first song deemed good enough for a single release was Radio Ga Ga... And even that wouldn't have been released unless the other members had lowered the quality of their own output.
And it wouldn't have been released if Freddie hadn't arranged it. I guess that, had 'Ga Ga' been a Deacon song, it'd have been co-credited to Mercury (like 'Pain is So Close' and 'Friends').
> Doesn't that really suggest that the writing of EVERY band member was going equally down toilet in the 80's?
Exactly. Dr May had some great moments in the 80's (like '...Forever'), but most of the time he wrote sub-average things compared to his 70's output. Compare 'Las Palabras' with 'White Queen' or 'Tear It Up' with 'Prophet's Song'... enough said.
Thread
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[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]bigV wrote: [/QUOTENAME]
And anyway, you've just proved my point. It's not that Freddie was overrated, it's that Brian, Roger and John were underrated. I just gave an example with Brian, because he's my favourite member of the band. Don't cling to minutiae.
V.
[/QUOTE]
Actually... No.
Your point was that Freddie was overrated in the 80's, while my point was that they were all similarily overrated in the 80's (or just as good as always, depending on your viewpoint.)
You said Brian was consistent throughout the 70's and 80's unlike Freddie, and I pointed out they were both just as inconsistent.
Please don't try to turn your Brian-lovefest into objective analysis of the band's writing capabilities. ;)
And anyway, you've just proved my point. It's not that Freddie was overrated, it's that Brian, Roger and John were underrated. I just gave an example with Brian, because he's my favourite member of the band. Don't cling to minutiae.
V.
[/QUOTE]
Actually... No.
Your point was that Freddie was overrated in the 80's, while my point was that they were all similarily overrated in the 80's (or just as good as always, depending on your viewpoint.)
You said Brian was consistent throughout the 70's and 80's unlike Freddie, and I pointed out they were both just as inconsistent.
Please don't try to turn your Brian-lovefest into objective analysis of the band's writing capabilities. ;)
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Tero wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]bigV wrote: [/QUOTENAME]
And anyway, you've just proved my point. It's not that Freddie was overrated, it's that Brian, Roger and John were underrated. I just gave an example with Brian, because he's my favourite member of the band. Don't cling to minutiae.
V.
[/QUOTE]
Actually... No.
Your point was that Freddie was overrated in the 80's, while my point was that they were all similarily overrated in the 80's (or just as good as always, depending on your viewpoint.)
You said Brian was consistent throughout the 70's and 80's unlike Freddie, and I pointed out they were both just as inconsistent.
Please don't try to turn your Brian-lovefest into objective analysis of the band's writing capabilities. ;)[/QUOTE]
Touche! :)
V.
And anyway, you've just proved my point. It's not that Freddie was overrated, it's that Brian, Roger and John were underrated. I just gave an example with Brian, because he's my favourite member of the band. Don't cling to minutiae.
V.
[/QUOTE]
Actually... No.
Your point was that Freddie was overrated in the 80's, while my point was that they were all similarily overrated in the 80's (or just as good as always, depending on your viewpoint.)
You said Brian was consistent throughout the 70's and 80's unlike Freddie, and I pointed out they were both just as inconsistent.
Please don't try to turn your Brian-lovefest into objective analysis of the band's writing capabilities. ;)[/QUOTE]
Touche! :)
V.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]bigV wrote: [/QUOTENAME]I'm drunk too, but I'll take a shot at this, because I agree with all points in the initial post.
Let's examine the singles written by Freddie in the 80's:
1980 Play The Game - A dull, predictable song. Freddie should've given it away to the Gibb brothers
1982 Body Language - Seriously? This from the man who wrote "Bohemian Rhapsody" and "Killer Queen"???
1984 It's A Hard Life - If "Play the Game" wasn't torture enough, here comes the sequel. Lyrically it sounds more like a teen girl's poetry.
1986 Friends Will Be Friends - Co-written with John. Expected to be the next "We Are The Champions", but failed miserably on that account.
1989 The Miracle - Credited to Freddie, but I think that Brian had a lot more to do with it than he would admit. Even so, a good song that lacks punch. Certainly Freddie's best single in the 80's.
Am I being too harsh? Perhaps. But if you look at the singles the other bandmembers produced in the 80's you'll see that I'm right. Freddie lost something when he grew the 'tache.
By saying that he was overrated I don't mean that he wasn't that great. I'm saying that Brian, Roger and John a greatly UNDERrated, and that goes double for Brian May, because as the topic starter said, he was the most consistent song-writer. He didn't write any No. 1 hits (unless you count that excuse for a single with 5ive), but he wrote a lot of good stuff and most of it memorable.
V.
[/QUOTE] oh please, play the game, and especially it's a hard life were awsome. As for body language, at least freddie was trying something different. Brian on the other hand was so predictable with put out the fire and tear it up. My favorite songs on hot space were the disco funk tunes like staying power and dancer, back chat and cool cat. Put out the fire was brian trying to hard to sound like queen. This is not to put down brian, he was awsome (not now). My only point is that he wasn't consistent like you say.
Let's examine the singles written by Freddie in the 80's:
1980 Play The Game - A dull, predictable song. Freddie should've given it away to the Gibb brothers
1982 Body Language - Seriously? This from the man who wrote "Bohemian Rhapsody" and "Killer Queen"???
1984 It's A Hard Life - If "Play the Game" wasn't torture enough, here comes the sequel. Lyrically it sounds more like a teen girl's poetry.
1986 Friends Will Be Friends - Co-written with John. Expected to be the next "We Are The Champions", but failed miserably on that account.
1989 The Miracle - Credited to Freddie, but I think that Brian had a lot more to do with it than he would admit. Even so, a good song that lacks punch. Certainly Freddie's best single in the 80's.
Am I being too harsh? Perhaps. But if you look at the singles the other bandmembers produced in the 80's you'll see that I'm right. Freddie lost something when he grew the 'tache.
By saying that he was overrated I don't mean that he wasn't that great. I'm saying that Brian, Roger and John a greatly UNDERrated, and that goes double for Brian May, because as the topic starter said, he was the most consistent song-writer. He didn't write any No. 1 hits (unless you count that excuse for a single with 5ive), but he wrote a lot of good stuff and most of it memorable.
V.
[/QUOTE] oh please, play the game, and especially it's a hard life were awsome. As for body language, at least freddie was trying something different. Brian on the other hand was so predictable with put out the fire and tear it up. My favorite songs on hot space were the disco funk tunes like staying power and dancer, back chat and cool cat. Put out the fire was brian trying to hard to sound like queen. This is not to put down brian, he was awsome (not now). My only point is that he wasn't consistent like you say.
I love everything Freddie wrote in the seventies, but absolutely NOTHING he wrote in the eighties. All his songs on Hot Space/The Works/A Kind Of Magic are terrible, Mr. Bad Guy is one of the crappiest albums in history of modern music, only the remixes of its songs are listenable.
Barcelona is after a long time something good, but I guess it's because he didn't write the songs alone, and / or he knew his end is near, so he tried to write stuff which was as good as possible. The same goes for songs from The Miracle and Innuendo (except Delilah).
As I wrote above, I LOVE everything written by Freddie in the seventies, with two exceptions - Good Old Fashioned Lover Boy and Get Down Make Love.
Brian on the other hand did NEVER write a song, which I wouldn't like.
Barcelona is after a long time something good, but I guess it's because he didn't write the songs alone, and / or he knew his end is near, so he tried to write stuff which was as good as possible. The same goes for songs from The Miracle and Innuendo (except Delilah).
As I wrote above, I LOVE everything written by Freddie in the seventies, with two exceptions - Good Old Fashioned Lover Boy and Get Down Make Love.
Brian on the other hand did NEVER write a song, which I wouldn't like.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]pittrek wrote: [/QUOTENAME]I love everything Freddie wrote in the seventies, but absolutely NOTHING he wrote in the eighties. All his songs on Hot Space/The Works/A Kind Of Magic are terrible, Mr. Bad Guy is one of the crappiest albums in history of modern music, only the remixes of its songs are listenable.
Barcelona is after a long time something good, but I guess it's because he didn't write the songs alone, and / or he knew his end is near, so he tried to write stuff which was as good as possible. The same goes for songs from The Miracle and Innuendo (except Delilah).
As I wrote above, I LOVE everything written by Freddie in the seventies, with two exceptions - Good Old Fashioned Lover Boy and Get Down Make Love.
Brian on the other hand did NEVER write a song, which I wouldn't like.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, what he said.
V.
Barcelona is after a long time something good, but I guess it's because he didn't write the songs alone, and / or he knew his end is near, so he tried to write stuff which was as good as possible. The same goes for songs from The Miracle and Innuendo (except Delilah).
As I wrote above, I LOVE everything written by Freddie in the seventies, with two exceptions - Good Old Fashioned Lover Boy and Get Down Make Love.
Brian on the other hand did NEVER write a song, which I wouldn't like.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, what he said.
V.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]pittrek wrote: [/QUOTENAME]Brian on the other hand did NEVER write a song, which I wouldn't like.[/QUOTE]
I'm not questioning your taste in music here but if you were being totally honest, would you say you liked all Brian's songs solely for their musical worth or maybe because Brian wrote them? For example, if an old enka star had written Teo Toriatte for Japanese senior citizens and it just so happened to have got some radio airplay in the West-could you *honestly* say you liked it?
In a similar vein, would you have automatically liked 'Princes of the Universe' if Mr May had been the composer and similarly hated 'Gimme the Prize' if it had been one of Freddie's? The point I'm trying to make is, it's only natural to defend the work of an artist we admire although if we listened more objectively, we may be more open to faults and weaknesses.
I'm not having a go at Brian fans, I think the same theory goes for Freddie supporters too-some of them favour his songs *because* he wrote them, not necessarily because they're great pieces of music.
I'm not questioning your taste in music here but if you were being totally honest, would you say you liked all Brian's songs solely for their musical worth or maybe because Brian wrote them? For example, if an old enka star had written Teo Toriatte for Japanese senior citizens and it just so happened to have got some radio airplay in the West-could you *honestly* say you liked it?
In a similar vein, would you have automatically liked 'Princes of the Universe' if Mr May had been the composer and similarly hated 'Gimme the Prize' if it had been one of Freddie's? The point I'm trying to make is, it's only natural to defend the work of an artist we admire although if we listened more objectively, we may be more open to faults and weaknesses.
I'm not having a go at Brian fans, I think the same theory goes for Freddie supporters too-some of them favour his songs *because* he wrote them, not necessarily because they're great pieces of music.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]saltnvinegar wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]pittrek wrote: [/QUOTENAME]Brian on the other hand did NEVER write a song, which I wouldn't like.[/QUOTE]
I'm not questioning your taste in music here but if you were being totally honest, would you say you liked all Brian's songs solely for their musical worth or maybe because Brian wrote them? For example, if an old enka star had written Teo Toriatte for Japanese senior citizens and it just so happened to have got some radio airplay in the West-could you *honestly* say you liked it?
In a similar vein, would you have automatically liked 'Princes of the Universe' if Mr May had been the composer and similarly hated 'Gimme the Prize' if it had been one of Freddie's? The point I'm trying to make is, it's only natural to defend the work of an artist we admire although if we listened more objectively, we may be more open to faults and weaknesses.
I'm not having a go at Brian fans, I think the same theory goes for Freddie supporters too-some of them favour his songs *because* he wrote them, not necessarily because they're great pieces of music.[/QUOTE]
That is a good question. I'm not really a philosopher, I don't actually know WHY do I like something. I simply know THAT I like something or not. I don't actually care who writes the music that I like to listen, I'm not like the teen girls who visit this site and are for some reason horny about a gay many who died before they were born :-) (your "Freddie - supporters")
I'm not questioning your taste in music here but if you were being totally honest, would you say you liked all Brian's songs solely for their musical worth or maybe because Brian wrote them? For example, if an old enka star had written Teo Toriatte for Japanese senior citizens and it just so happened to have got some radio airplay in the West-could you *honestly* say you liked it?
In a similar vein, would you have automatically liked 'Princes of the Universe' if Mr May had been the composer and similarly hated 'Gimme the Prize' if it had been one of Freddie's? The point I'm trying to make is, it's only natural to defend the work of an artist we admire although if we listened more objectively, we may be more open to faults and weaknesses.
I'm not having a go at Brian fans, I think the same theory goes for Freddie supporters too-some of them favour his songs *because* he wrote them, not necessarily because they're great pieces of music.[/QUOTE]
That is a good question. I'm not really a philosopher, I don't actually know WHY do I like something. I simply know THAT I like something or not. I don't actually care who writes the music that I like to listen, I'm not like the teen girls who visit this site and are for some reason horny about a gay many who died before they were born :-) (your "Freddie - supporters")
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]pittrek wrote: [/QUOTENAME]That is a good question. I'm not really a philosopher, I don't actually know WHY do I like something. I simply know THAT I like something or not. I don't actually care who writes the music that I like to listen, I'm not like the teen girls who visit this site and are for some reason horny about a gay many who died before they were born :-) (your "Freddie - supporters")
[/QUOTE]
That's a fair point. If you like something, you just like it, you don't have to have a deep philosophical reason for it.
In defence (kind of) of those 'horny teen girls' to which you refer!-don't forget that we ladies can't help but enjoy rock stars for their looks too-you can't deny that sex has always sold records over the years. Image was also a part of Queen's appeal. The females here do have a bit of fun but remember a lot of us fully respect them as musicians as well :)
[/QUOTE]
That's a fair point. If you like something, you just like it, you don't have to have a deep philosophical reason for it.
In defence (kind of) of those 'horny teen girls' to which you refer!-don't forget that we ladies can't help but enjoy rock stars for their looks too-you can't deny that sex has always sold records over the years. Image was also a part of Queen's appeal. The females here do have a bit of fun but remember a lot of us fully respect them as musicians as well :)
> Mr. Bad Guy is one of the crappiest albums in history of modern music, only the remixes of its songs are listenable.
So what's the "crap" there? Production, performance or songwriting?
So what's the "crap" there? Production, performance or songwriting?
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]pittrek wrote: [/QUOTENAME]
Brian on the other hand did NEVER write a song, which I wouldn't like.[/QUOTE]
I'm sorry to say this, but that revelation makes it very hard to take your opinion seriously. (Unless of course your definition of liking something is "not hating something".)
I admit that Freddie was my favourite member of the group, and in general I like his songs more than the others... That does not however mean I like every single thing he wrote. Maybe I'm not just as obsessed as people like you, but I think overall that's a good thing. We wouldn't want everyone to fawn over every single piece of crap they produced, would we? ;)
Brian on the other hand did NEVER write a song, which I wouldn't like.[/QUOTE]
I'm sorry to say this, but that revelation makes it very hard to take your opinion seriously. (Unless of course your definition of liking something is "not hating something".)
I admit that Freddie was my favourite member of the group, and in general I like his songs more than the others... That does not however mean I like every single thing he wrote. Maybe I'm not just as obsessed as people like you, but I think overall that's a good thing. We wouldn't want everyone to fawn over every single piece of crap they produced, would we? ;)
Why is it that the "Freddie fans" are the "true Queen fans" and the "Brian fans" are the "obsessed ones". Smells like a double standard.
V.
V.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]bigV wrote: [/QUOTENAME]Why is it that the "Freddie fans" are the "true Queen fans" and the "Brian fans" are the "obsessed ones". Smells like a double standard.
V.
[/QUOTE]
Has anybody suggested that in this topic?
Didn't think so either. :P
V.
[/QUOTE]
Has anybody suggested that in this topic?
Didn't think so either. :P
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]bigV wrote: [/QUOTENAME]Why is it that the "Freddie fans" are the "true Queen fans" and the "Brian fans" are the "obsessed ones". Smells like a double standard.
V.
[/QUOTE]
I agree with Tero, pertaining to this specific thread, I've not read any such claims. In other topics, if anything, it's the *other* way round. Take, for example (sorry to bring it up here) the old q+pr debate; Those against it are often just told 'you're obsessed with a dead man-get over it, move on' Whereas those in favour argue that a 'true' Queen fan, would support them whatever the line-up.
V.
[/QUOTE]
I agree with Tero, pertaining to this specific thread, I've not read any such claims. In other topics, if anything, it's the *other* way round. Take, for example (sorry to bring it up here) the old q+pr debate; Those against it are often just told 'you're obsessed with a dead man-get over it, move on' Whereas those in favour argue that a 'true' Queen fan, would support them whatever the line-up.
More on the subject - an extract from the infamous Howard Stern interview with Brian May:
HS: Where did you meet? Like.. how did you guys hook up? It must have been... like... you and Freddie were really the band. The rest of the guys you could have done without. Right?
CREW: Ohhh jeez....!!
HS: They weren't really that talented compared to you and Freddie. And you and Freddie wrote all the songs.
BM: You think so?? (laughs) No, no... it was very much...
HS: Come on. Be honest. Why don't you admit that you and Freddie really were the band?
BM: No, I wont. Because.. um....
HS: Because you're a gentleman.
BM: No.. because the biggest hit we ever had was "Another One Bites The Dust", which John wrote.
HS: Oh. He did??
BM: And "Radio Ga Ga", in most of the world, was probably.. like.... the second biggest hit we ever had... which was written by Roger. You know.. it was very.... No. I'd tell you the truth if it was true.
HS: But who wrote "Bohemian Rhapsody"?
BM: Fred wrote "Bohemian Rhapsody".
HS: With you.
BM: Mmmmm... not so much with me.
V.
HS: Where did you meet? Like.. how did you guys hook up? It must have been... like... you and Freddie were really the band. The rest of the guys you could have done without. Right?
CREW: Ohhh jeez....!!
HS: They weren't really that talented compared to you and Freddie. And you and Freddie wrote all the songs.
BM: You think so?? (laughs) No, no... it was very much...
HS: Come on. Be honest. Why don't you admit that you and Freddie really were the band?
BM: No, I wont. Because.. um....
HS: Because you're a gentleman.
BM: No.. because the biggest hit we ever had was "Another One Bites The Dust", which John wrote.
HS: Oh. He did??
BM: And "Radio Ga Ga", in most of the world, was probably.. like.... the second biggest hit we ever had... which was written by Roger. You know.. it was very.... No. I'd tell you the truth if it was true.
HS: But who wrote "Bohemian Rhapsody"?
BM: Fred wrote "Bohemian Rhapsody".
HS: With you.
BM: Mmmmm... not so much with me.
V.