[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Mean Mr. Ketchup wrote: [/QUOTENAME]The Ramones - My Sharona
[/QUOTE]
On the "Get The Ramones" album?
I think you're confused. One year after My Sharona came out, The Chipmunks covered this song as the final track on their 1980 comeback album, Chipmunk Punk
Performed in Cantonese by Hong Kong Cantopop group Krusty on their debut album, Hello Krusty
Polysics, the electro-pop-punk group from Japan covered "My Sharona" on the album For Young Electric Pop
Sadly, after hearing the Cantonese version, The Ramones decided never to record this song. Ever.
Thread
Posts in chronological order
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<b>- Horsie Vai - wrote: [/QUOTENAME]Still, a guy who can't follow the most basic rhythm or properly bend a string and not go out of tune... is obviously not a great player. [/QUOTE]
You're talking bullshit. I did hear that there were times when he was too high or too drunk to play well. But overall, he was (and still is) a very good guitarist.
Ever heard "How The West Was Won"? If that live album doesn't prove Jimmy Page was a wonderful guitarist, then I give up on the guitar, because I cleary have no taste.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<b>- Horsie Vai - wrote: [/QUOTENAME]You don't influence others because you're good, you do because you are important. If you write a (good?) song, it doesn't mean you're a good guitar player or singer, it just means you wrote a song, which obviously can be good or not.
(...)
Eddie Van Halen said that Page inspired him to develop the tapping technique. Tapping had existed for more than a hundred years, tho. Then you might think JIMMY'S THE BEST, HE INFLUENCED EDDIE TO DEVELOP THE TAPPING but that's just wrong. Eddie said that when he saw Page doing this hammer on's and pull off's he thought about using his other hand to tap notes over the fretbpard. Eddie's the true genius coming up with this idea and being able to play it so well, not Page.
He is obviously not a good player. The fact that he influenced other players doesn't have a thing to do with him playing the damn thing. The Sex Pistols also influenced lots of bands, and so did The Ramones. So they're amazingly good bands, great composers and outstanding players, right?
What you say is like saying that the apple is the best fruit ever cuz it fell over Isaac Newton's head and made him formulate the law of gravity.
[/QUOTE]
Saying Eddie Van Halen's tapping is the ONLY Jimmy Page influence in rock guitar is absolutely pathetic.
You're forgetting we're talking about one of the first hard rock/heavy metal guitarists in the world, who has influenced hundreds of important guitarists - including Brian May.
And yes, I *do* find Johnny Ramone creative. Playing power chords throughout a whole album might be easy - but a good song isn't necessarily a difficult song. Nowadays any guitar beginner will play power chord driven songs - but how many people thought of doing that before Ramone made it popular? Hardly any.
You might not appreciate Jimmy, neither Johnny, but both of them were more innovative than you've been so far. Each of them was majorly responsible for the development of new styles.
On the other hand, many shreds you admire are nothing outside the "guitar world". Only guitarists can be bothered to listen to them, most times for the sake of studying their technique. Except for a few geniuses, such as Vai and Jason Becker, most of them can't really do anything interesting. Just play scales up and down too fast for you to see their fingers. Big fucking deal.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<b>- Horsie Vai - wrote: [/QUOTENAME]
Jimmy is also well known as a plagiarist, so who's inventing then? Besides, creating things doesn't make you a good guitar player either. It's like saying that if some guy designs a new Formula 1 car, he's the best racer ever. What happens in your head and what you can do with your hands are two completely different things, which not necessarily go together.
[/QUOTE]
I know he was a plagiarist, and I despise it. But he *did* improve the songs a lot. And the stuff he composed is brilliant.
You're talking bullshit. I did hear that there were times when he was too high or too drunk to play well. But overall, he was (and still is) a very good guitarist.
Ever heard "How The West Was Won"? If that live album doesn't prove Jimmy Page was a wonderful guitarist, then I give up on the guitar, because I cleary have no taste.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<b>- Horsie Vai - wrote: [/QUOTENAME]You don't influence others because you're good, you do because you are important. If you write a (good?) song, it doesn't mean you're a good guitar player or singer, it just means you wrote a song, which obviously can be good or not.
(...)
Eddie Van Halen said that Page inspired him to develop the tapping technique. Tapping had existed for more than a hundred years, tho. Then you might think JIMMY'S THE BEST, HE INFLUENCED EDDIE TO DEVELOP THE TAPPING but that's just wrong. Eddie said that when he saw Page doing this hammer on's and pull off's he thought about using his other hand to tap notes over the fretbpard. Eddie's the true genius coming up with this idea and being able to play it so well, not Page.
He is obviously not a good player. The fact that he influenced other players doesn't have a thing to do with him playing the damn thing. The Sex Pistols also influenced lots of bands, and so did The Ramones. So they're amazingly good bands, great composers and outstanding players, right?
What you say is like saying that the apple is the best fruit ever cuz it fell over Isaac Newton's head and made him formulate the law of gravity.
[/QUOTE]
Saying Eddie Van Halen's tapping is the ONLY Jimmy Page influence in rock guitar is absolutely pathetic.
You're forgetting we're talking about one of the first hard rock/heavy metal guitarists in the world, who has influenced hundreds of important guitarists - including Brian May.
And yes, I *do* find Johnny Ramone creative. Playing power chords throughout a whole album might be easy - but a good song isn't necessarily a difficult song. Nowadays any guitar beginner will play power chord driven songs - but how many people thought of doing that before Ramone made it popular? Hardly any.
You might not appreciate Jimmy, neither Johnny, but both of them were more innovative than you've been so far. Each of them was majorly responsible for the development of new styles.
On the other hand, many shreds you admire are nothing outside the "guitar world". Only guitarists can be bothered to listen to them, most times for the sake of studying their technique. Except for a few geniuses, such as Vai and Jason Becker, most of them can't really do anything interesting. Just play scales up and down too fast for you to see their fingers. Big fucking deal.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<b>- Horsie Vai - wrote: [/QUOTENAME]
Jimmy is also well known as a plagiarist, so who's inventing then? Besides, creating things doesn't make you a good guitar player either. It's like saying that if some guy designs a new Formula 1 car, he's the best racer ever. What happens in your head and what you can do with your hands are two completely different things, which not necessarily go together.
[/QUOTE]
I know he was a plagiarist, and I despise it. But he *did* improve the songs a lot. And the stuff he composed is brilliant.
SUNSHINE OF YOUR LOVE - CREAM.
I'M LIKE... IN LOVE WITH THE RIFF. I WONNA LEARN IT.
I'M SO CRAP. :RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR XD
I'M LIKE... IN LOVE WITH THE RIFF. I WONNA LEARN IT.
I'M SO CRAP. :RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR XD
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<font color="lime">Raf840 wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<b>- Horsie Vai - wrote: [/QUOTENAME]Still, a guy who can't follow the most basic rhythm or properly bend a string and not go out of tune... is obviously not a great player. [/QUOTE]
You're talking bullshit. I did hear that there were times when he was too high or too drunk to play well. But overall, he was (and still is) a very good guitarist. [/QUOTE]No.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<font color="lime">Raf840 wrote: [/QUOTENAME]Ever heard "How The West Was Won"? If that live album doesn't prove Jimmy Page was a wonderful guitarist, then I give up on the guitar, because I cleary have no taste.[/QUOTE]
If Page's been playing the damn Stairway To Heaven solo for 30 years and still can't play it correctly you have no reason to give up on the guitar.
:P
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<font color="lime">Raf840 wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<b>- Horsie Vai - wrote: [/QUOTENAME]You don't influence others because you're good, you do because you are important. If you write a (good?) song, it doesn't mean you're a good guitar player or singer, it just means you wrote a song, which obviously can be good or not.
(...)
Eddie Van Halen said that Page inspired him to develop the tapping technique. Tapping had existed for more than a hundred years, tho. Then you might think JIMMY'S THE BEST, HE INFLUENCED EDDIE TO DEVELOP THE TAPPING but that's just wrong. Eddie said that when he saw Page doing this hammer on's and pull off's he thought about using his other hand to tap notes over the fretbpard. Eddie's the true genius coming up with this idea and being able to play it so well, not Page.
He is obviously not a good player. The fact that he influenced other players doesn't have a thing to do with him playing the damn thing. The Sex Pistols also influenced lots of bands, and so did The Ramones. So they're amazingly good bands, great composers and outstanding players, right?
What you say is like saying that the apple is the best fruit ever cuz it fell over Isaac Newton's head and made him formulate the law of gravity.
[/QUOTE]
Saying Eddie Van Halen's tapping is the ONLY Jimmy Page influence in rock guitar is absolutely pathetic.
You're forgetting we're talking about one of the first hard rock/heavy metal guitarists in the world, who has influenced hundreds of important guitarists - including Brian May.[/QUOTE]
Where the fuck did I say that was Jimmy's only influence? It was an example of my point which you obviously didn't understand.
Page was no heavy metal player at all. But that's beside my point, which is that he was very sloppy and had a lot of technical problems.
I don't give a fuck whether he invented the guitar itself, he was and still is a very sloppy player.
Hendrix was lot better than Jimmy and Jimi DID create a lot of things. He had better phrasing overall, he was more in tune than Page, he was faster, more accurate and his guitar arrangements weren't as primitive as Page's. Even Jimi's rhythm guitar work is interesting and worth analysing. Hendrix did create his own world with his innovative playing (which was innovative) and his use of effects (which was innovative too). And Hendrix wasn't exactly and amazing guitar player, he was sloppy too but the things he played are more difficult than Page's.
The point is not the difficult but the creation and the impact it has been having on music. I hear lots and lots of Hendrix-influenced players. Most of them, are good. Some of them are fucking gods (like Steve Vai).
Even back in those days (late 60's - early 70's), Page wasn't better than anyone. Beck was better (and still is), Clapton too, Hendrix too, Blackmore too, Howe too. And also some guy named Brian May.
If your point is that he's good because he influenced people, then whoever influenced him is better than him.
THEREFORE, THE BEST GUITAR PLAYER E
You're talking bullshit. I did hear that there were times when he was too high or too drunk to play well. But overall, he was (and still is) a very good guitarist. [/QUOTE]No.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<font color="lime">Raf840 wrote: [/QUOTENAME]Ever heard "How The West Was Won"? If that live album doesn't prove Jimmy Page was a wonderful guitarist, then I give up on the guitar, because I cleary have no taste.[/QUOTE]
If Page's been playing the damn Stairway To Heaven solo for 30 years and still can't play it correctly you have no reason to give up on the guitar.
:P
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<font color="lime">Raf840 wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<b>- Horsie Vai - wrote: [/QUOTENAME]You don't influence others because you're good, you do because you are important. If you write a (good?) song, it doesn't mean you're a good guitar player or singer, it just means you wrote a song, which obviously can be good or not.
(...)
Eddie Van Halen said that Page inspired him to develop the tapping technique. Tapping had existed for more than a hundred years, tho. Then you might think JIMMY'S THE BEST, HE INFLUENCED EDDIE TO DEVELOP THE TAPPING but that's just wrong. Eddie said that when he saw Page doing this hammer on's and pull off's he thought about using his other hand to tap notes over the fretbpard. Eddie's the true genius coming up with this idea and being able to play it so well, not Page.
He is obviously not a good player. The fact that he influenced other players doesn't have a thing to do with him playing the damn thing. The Sex Pistols also influenced lots of bands, and so did The Ramones. So they're amazingly good bands, great composers and outstanding players, right?
What you say is like saying that the apple is the best fruit ever cuz it fell over Isaac Newton's head and made him formulate the law of gravity.
[/QUOTE]
Saying Eddie Van Halen's tapping is the ONLY Jimmy Page influence in rock guitar is absolutely pathetic.
You're forgetting we're talking about one of the first hard rock/heavy metal guitarists in the world, who has influenced hundreds of important guitarists - including Brian May.[/QUOTE]
Where the fuck did I say that was Jimmy's only influence? It was an example of my point which you obviously didn't understand.
Page was no heavy metal player at all. But that's beside my point, which is that he was very sloppy and had a lot of technical problems.
I don't give a fuck whether he invented the guitar itself, he was and still is a very sloppy player.
Hendrix was lot better than Jimmy and Jimi DID create a lot of things. He had better phrasing overall, he was more in tune than Page, he was faster, more accurate and his guitar arrangements weren't as primitive as Page's. Even Jimi's rhythm guitar work is interesting and worth analysing. Hendrix did create his own world with his innovative playing (which was innovative) and his use of effects (which was innovative too). And Hendrix wasn't exactly and amazing guitar player, he was sloppy too but the things he played are more difficult than Page's.
The point is not the difficult but the creation and the impact it has been having on music. I hear lots and lots of Hendrix-influenced players. Most of them, are good. Some of them are fucking gods (like Steve Vai).
Even back in those days (late 60's - early 70's), Page wasn't better than anyone. Beck was better (and still is), Clapton too, Hendrix too, Blackmore too, Howe too. And also some guy named Brian May.
If your point is that he's good because he influenced people, then whoever influenced him is better than him.
THEREFORE, THE BEST GUITAR PLAYER E
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<font color="lime">Raf840 wrote: [/QUOTENAME]On the other hand, many shreds you admire are nothing outside the "guitar world". Only guitarists can be bothered to listen to them, most times for the sake of studying their technique. Except for a few geniuses, such as Vai and Jason Becker, most of them can't really do anything interesting. Just play scales up and down too fast for you to see their fingers. Big fucking deal. [/QUOTE]
So Page is better because non-guitarists listen to him. That's genius, I don't know how I didn't think of that before!
Guitar oriented music is obviously oriented to people who play guitar (D'UUUUUUH). Most of the time, they're too technically developed for the average listener.
But guess what? Almost all of them shredders are outstanding players, and that's a style Page didn't help develop.
They do get boring as hell and repetitive, probably 95% of the time but we're not talking about their compositions but about their playing. And their playing is great.
Yngwie Malmsteen is amazing, for those suckers who say he's just speed "without feeling", Yngwie slaps their faces with his cock while playing Icarus' Dream Suite op. 4, which is the proof that Yngwie can play slow and with loads and loads of expression. His vibrato is brillant and his intonation is great.
If you can't see that it's because you have something against the guy and his music.
Michael Romeo is another monster who seems to be able to play anything. And then Luca Turilli and his amazingly clean arpeggios and lots and lots of players.
Those guys earned everything they are, with practice and practice. You sayind thag playing that clean and fast is just the result of "a couple of years" of practice is the most anti-musical thing you could ever say.
RESPECT THE FUCKING PLAYERS. Jimmy Page is NOT great and obviously NOT one of the best players ever. His creation might have been important but it has nothing to do with his playing. He is sloppy and for fuck's sake, it's SO obvious!!!
He wasn't technically developed and his songs are very simple most of the time. John Paul Jones wrote the interesting cool arrangements, not Page. Jonesy even wrote the riff from Black Dog.
Page was by far the worst player in Led Zep. John Paul Jones was an amazing musician, Bonzo was great and Robert was an excellent singer (even tho he'd go out of tune sometimes)... but Jimmy was just sloppy.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<font color="lime">Raf840 wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<b>- Horsie Vai - wrote: [/QUOTENAME]
Jimmy is also well known as a plagiarist, so who's inventing then? Besides, creating things doesn't make you a good guitar player either. It's like saying that if some guy designs a new Formula 1 car, he's the best racer ever. What happens in your head and what you can do with your hands are two completely different things, which not necessarily go together.
[/QUOTE]
I know he was a plagiarist, and I despise it. But he *did* improve the songs a lot. And the stuff he composed is brilliant.[/QUOTE]But he didn't invent them then... so KUDOS to the REAL writers. If he didn't even write the stuff, then he's not the creator of anything.
You're just trying to put him as a guitar hero and you're talking nonsense.
JIMMY PAGE WAS SO CREATIVE AND INNOVATIVE.
- No, he's a plagiarist.
ER... BUT HE IMPROVED WHAT HE PLAGIARIZED, SO HE'S GREAT!
- ...
Saying anything just to try to save the guy from the fact that he IS a sloppy player is just wrong.
So Page is better because non-guitarists listen to him. That's genius, I don't know how I didn't think of that before!
Guitar oriented music is obviously oriented to people who play guitar (D'UUUUUUH). Most of the time, they're too technically developed for the average listener.
But guess what? Almost all of them shredders are outstanding players, and that's a style Page didn't help develop.
They do get boring as hell and repetitive, probably 95% of the time but we're not talking about their compositions but about their playing. And their playing is great.
Yngwie Malmsteen is amazing, for those suckers who say he's just speed "without feeling", Yngwie slaps their faces with his cock while playing Icarus' Dream Suite op. 4, which is the proof that Yngwie can play slow and with loads and loads of expression. His vibrato is brillant and his intonation is great.
If you can't see that it's because you have something against the guy and his music.
Michael Romeo is another monster who seems to be able to play anything. And then Luca Turilli and his amazingly clean arpeggios and lots and lots of players.
Those guys earned everything they are, with practice and practice. You sayind thag playing that clean and fast is just the result of "a couple of years" of practice is the most anti-musical thing you could ever say.
RESPECT THE FUCKING PLAYERS. Jimmy Page is NOT great and obviously NOT one of the best players ever. His creation might have been important but it has nothing to do with his playing. He is sloppy and for fuck's sake, it's SO obvious!!!
He wasn't technically developed and his songs are very simple most of the time. John Paul Jones wrote the interesting cool arrangements, not Page. Jonesy even wrote the riff from Black Dog.
Page was by far the worst player in Led Zep. John Paul Jones was an amazing musician, Bonzo was great and Robert was an excellent singer (even tho he'd go out of tune sometimes)... but Jimmy was just sloppy.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<font color="lime">Raf840 wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<b>- Horsie Vai - wrote: [/QUOTENAME]
Jimmy is also well known as a plagiarist, so who's inventing then? Besides, creating things doesn't make you a good guitar player either. It's like saying that if some guy designs a new Formula 1 car, he's the best racer ever. What happens in your head and what you can do with your hands are two completely different things, which not necessarily go together.
[/QUOTE]
I know he was a plagiarist, and I despise it. But he *did* improve the songs a lot. And the stuff he composed is brilliant.[/QUOTE]But he didn't invent them then... so KUDOS to the REAL writers. If he didn't even write the stuff, then he's not the creator of anything.
You're just trying to put him as a guitar hero and you're talking nonsense.
JIMMY PAGE WAS SO CREATIVE AND INNOVATIVE.
- No, he's a plagiarist.
ER... BUT HE IMPROVED WHAT HE PLAGIARIZED, SO HE'S GREAT!
- ...
Saying anything just to try to save the guy from the fact that he IS a sloppy player is just wrong.
"Hendrix was lot better than Jimmy and Jimi DID create a lot of things. He had better phrasing overall, he was more in tune than Page, he was faster, more accurate and his guitar arrangements weren't as primitive as Page's. Even Jimi's rhythm guitar work is interesting and worth analysing. Hendrix did create his own world with his innovative playing (which was innovative) and his use of effects (which was innovative too). And Hendrix wasn't exactly and amazing guitar player, he was sloppy too but the things he played are more difficult than Page's."
Wow, that touched my heart.
JIMI HENDRIX FOREVER BABY. :RRRRRRRRRRRR <3
XD
Wow, that touched my heart.
JIMI HENDRIX FOREVER BABY. :RRRRRRRRRRRR <3
XD
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<font color="#FF00FF">its_a_hard_life wrote: [/QUOTENAME]"Hendrix was lot better than Jimmy and Jimi DID create a lot of things. He had better phrasing overall, he was more in tune than Page, he was faster, more accurate and his guitar arrangements weren't as primitive as Page's. Even Jimi's rhythm guitar work is interesting and worth analysing. Hendrix did create his own world with his innovative playing (which was innovative) and his use of effects (which was innovative too). And Hendrix wasn't exactly and amazing guitar player, he was sloppy too but the things he played are more difficult than Page's."
Wow, that touched my heart.
JIMI HENDRIX FOREVER BABY. :RRRRRRRRRRRR <3
XD
[/QUOTE]You know that was for you ;-)
lol
Wow, that touched my heart.
JIMI HENDRIX FOREVER BABY. :RRRRRRRRRRRR <3
XD
[/QUOTE]You know that was for you ;-)
lol
I love singing the Stairway To Heaven vocal melody. It's fun and I think I'm good at it. Just not the rock part at the end. XD
*plays SWTH on iTunes*
*plays SWTH on iTunes*
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<b>- Horsie Vai - wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<font color="lime">Raf840 wrote: [/QUOTENAME]Ever heard "How The West Was Won"? If that live album doesn't prove Jimmy Page was a wonderful guitarist, then I give up on the guitar, because I cleary have no taste.[/QUOTE]
If Page's been playing the damn Stairway To Heaven solo for 30 years and still can't play it correctly you have no reason to give up on the guitar.
:P
[/QUOTE]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGte2mT0SD8
Listen and tell me if *THAT* is sloppy. As far as I'm concerned, back on those days Led Zeppelin weren't heavy drug users, Page was probably "clean" when he played that.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<b>- Horsie Vai - wrote:[/QUOTENAME]
Where the fuck did I say that was Jimmy's only influence? It was an example of my point which you obviously didn't understand.
Page was no heavy metal player at all. But that's beside my point, which is that he was very sloppy and had a lot of technical problems.
[/QUOTE]
Well... Was there heavy metal back in 1969? Page, Blackmore and Iommi were "creating" that style. Maybe Page's guitar playing doesn't sound like what you would call heavy metal - but it's certainly the roots to heavy metal.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<b>- Horsie Vai - wrote:[/QUOTENAME]I don't give a fuck whether he invented the guitar itself, he was and still is a very sloppy player. [/QUOTE]
I *do* confess there are many live recordings where Page sounds sloppy. But that was because of his drug abuse. A stupid choice made by a stupid man - but not a stupid musician. Like I said before, I do not hesitate to say he was DEFINITELY a guitar hero back in the early days. Once again, I'll mention "How The West Was Won". The link I posted above is for Stairway To Heaven (if you call that solo "incorrect", I'd say I'd rather play stuff incorrectly like Page did back in 1972), but if you listen to any other song from that album, I'm sure you will have to think twice before calling it "sloppy".
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<b>- Horsie Vai - wrote:[/QUOTENAME]Hendrix was lot better than Jimmy and Jimi DID create a lot of things. He had better phrasing overall, he was more in tune than Page, he was faster, more accurate and his guitar arrangements weren't as primitive as Page's. Even Jimi's rhythm guitar work is interesting and worth analysing. Hendrix did create his own world with his innovative playing (which was innovative) and his use of effects (which was innovative too). And Hendrix wasn't exactly and amazing guitar player, he was sloppy too but the things he played are more difficult than Page's.[/QUOTE]
"He was faster" isn't much of an argument nowadays. After Van Halen (who is brilliant, by the way!) made tapping popular, a bunch of pseudo-guitar heroes emerged, playing some fast meaningless tapping as if it was high level music.
Page's rhythm work *is* worth analyzing too. I'm no guitar expert, neither music expert, but I'm sure I'm not the only one who finds Kashmir highly interesting (both the chord progression and that strange impression you have when you listen to the song that guitar is in 3/4 when the song is actually in 4/4), for example. The guy was also one of the best riff composers ever.
Tell me riffs like The Immigrant Song and Whole Lotta Love have no influence on hard rock and heavy metal in general...[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<b>- Horsie Vai - wrote:[/QUOTENAME]
Even back in those days (late 60's - early 70's), Page wasn't better than anyone. Beck was better (and still is), Clapton too, Hendrix too, Blackmore too, Howe too. And also some guy named Brian May.
If your point is that he's good because he influenced people, then whoever influenced him is better than him.
THEREFORE, THE BEST GUITAR PLAYER EVER IS THE GUY WHO INVENTED GUITAR. [/QUOTE]
I'm not saying he's good because he influ
If Page's been playing the damn Stairway To Heaven solo for 30 years and still can't play it correctly you have no reason to give up on the guitar.
:P
[/QUOTE]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGte2mT0SD8
Listen and tell me if *THAT* is sloppy. As far as I'm concerned, back on those days Led Zeppelin weren't heavy drug users, Page was probably "clean" when he played that.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<b>- Horsie Vai - wrote:[/QUOTENAME]
Where the fuck did I say that was Jimmy's only influence? It was an example of my point which you obviously didn't understand.
Page was no heavy metal player at all. But that's beside my point, which is that he was very sloppy and had a lot of technical problems.
[/QUOTE]
Well... Was there heavy metal back in 1969? Page, Blackmore and Iommi were "creating" that style. Maybe Page's guitar playing doesn't sound like what you would call heavy metal - but it's certainly the roots to heavy metal.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<b>- Horsie Vai - wrote:[/QUOTENAME]I don't give a fuck whether he invented the guitar itself, he was and still is a very sloppy player. [/QUOTE]
I *do* confess there are many live recordings where Page sounds sloppy. But that was because of his drug abuse. A stupid choice made by a stupid man - but not a stupid musician. Like I said before, I do not hesitate to say he was DEFINITELY a guitar hero back in the early days. Once again, I'll mention "How The West Was Won". The link I posted above is for Stairway To Heaven (if you call that solo "incorrect", I'd say I'd rather play stuff incorrectly like Page did back in 1972), but if you listen to any other song from that album, I'm sure you will have to think twice before calling it "sloppy".
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<b>- Horsie Vai - wrote:[/QUOTENAME]Hendrix was lot better than Jimmy and Jimi DID create a lot of things. He had better phrasing overall, he was more in tune than Page, he was faster, more accurate and his guitar arrangements weren't as primitive as Page's. Even Jimi's rhythm guitar work is interesting and worth analysing. Hendrix did create his own world with his innovative playing (which was innovative) and his use of effects (which was innovative too). And Hendrix wasn't exactly and amazing guitar player, he was sloppy too but the things he played are more difficult than Page's.[/QUOTE]
"He was faster" isn't much of an argument nowadays. After Van Halen (who is brilliant, by the way!) made tapping popular, a bunch of pseudo-guitar heroes emerged, playing some fast meaningless tapping as if it was high level music.
Page's rhythm work *is* worth analyzing too. I'm no guitar expert, neither music expert, but I'm sure I'm not the only one who finds Kashmir highly interesting (both the chord progression and that strange impression you have when you listen to the song that guitar is in 3/4 when the song is actually in 4/4), for example. The guy was also one of the best riff composers ever.
Tell me riffs like The Immigrant Song and Whole Lotta Love have no influence on hard rock and heavy metal in general...[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<b>- Horsie Vai - wrote:[/QUOTENAME]
Even back in those days (late 60's - early 70's), Page wasn't better than anyone. Beck was better (and still is), Clapton too, Hendrix too, Blackmore too, Howe too. And also some guy named Brian May.
If your point is that he's good because he influenced people, then whoever influenced him is better than him.
THEREFORE, THE BEST GUITAR PLAYER EVER IS THE GUY WHO INVENTED GUITAR. [/QUOTE]
I'm not saying he's good because he influ
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<b>- Horsie Vai - wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<font color="lime">Raf840 wrote: [/QUOTENAME]On the other hand, many shreds you admire are nothing outside the "guitar world". Only guitarists can be bothered to listen to them, most times for the sake of studying their technique. Except for a few geniuses, such as Vai and Jason Becker, most of them can't really do anything interesting. Just play scales up and down too fast for you to see their fingers. Big fucking deal. [/QUOTE]
So Page is better because non-guitarists listen to him. That's genius, I don't know how I didn't think of that before!
Guitar oriented music is obviously oriented to people who play guitar (D'UUUUUUH). Most of the time, they're too technically developed for the average listener.
But guess what? Almost all of them shredders are outstanding players, and that's a style Page didn't help develop.
They do get boring as hell and repetitive, probably 95% of the time but we're not talking about their compositions but about their playing. And their playing is great.
Yngwie Malmsteen is amazing, for those suckers who say he's just speed "without feeling", Yngwie slaps their faces with his cock while playing Icarus' Dream Suite op. 4, which is the proof that Yngwie can play slow and with loads and loads of expression. His vibrato is brillant and his intonation is great.
If you can't see that it's because you have something against the guy and his music.
Michael Romeo is another monster who seems to be able to play anything. And then Luca Turilli and his amazingly clean arpeggios and lots and lots of players.
Those guys earned everything they are, with practice and practice. You sayind thag playing that clean and fast is just the result of "a couple of years" of practice is the most anti-musical thing you could ever say.
RESPECT THE FUCKING PLAYERS. Jimmy Page is NOT great and obviously NOT one of the best players ever. His creation might have been important but it has nothing to do with his playing. He is sloppy and for fuck's sake, it's SO obvious!!!
He wasn't technically developed and his songs are very simple most of the time. John Paul Jones wrote the interesting cool arrangements, not Page. Jonesy even wrote the riff from Black Dog.
Page was by far the worst player in Led Zep. John Paul Jones was an amazing musician, Bonzo was great and Robert was an excellent singer (even tho he'd go out of tune sometimes)... but Jimmy was just sloppy.
[/QUOTE]
I'm not disrespecting the players. Some so-called shredders are brilliant. I'd kiss Jason Becker's holy toes. Steve Vai certainly makes his guitar sing. Malmsteen did make some interesting stuff - but as YOU told me once, at one point he'd record scale exercises and call them "songs". That's what many shredders (and no offense - but you seem to admire all of them) do.
When someone first uses a PC, he will probably type like a moron, using only his index finger, and "hunting" each letter on the keyboard. After a couple of years visiting chatrooms for a couple of hours everyday, he'll type incredibly fast. That's pretty much what *some* of the music you admire (once again, not ALL - I DO acknowledge some fast guitarists are BRILLIANT and a few of their songs beat a few Queen songs and a few Led Zeppelin songs) do.
Tell me, what kind of "talent" is required to sit 2 hours a day and play the same scale up and down? You need nothing but patience. If you do that everyday, after a few years you will be playing fast like fuck. You won't even need to read hundreds of books about melody and harmony, you'll just sit down and impress lots of people going up and down the guitar neck so fucking fast that people won't even be able to tell accurately how many fingers you've got on your left hand.
BIG FUCKING DEAL.
Brian May's most beautiful solos weren't necessarily fast or highly
So Page is better because non-guitarists listen to him. That's genius, I don't know how I didn't think of that before!
Guitar oriented music is obviously oriented to people who play guitar (D'UUUUUUH). Most of the time, they're too technically developed for the average listener.
But guess what? Almost all of them shredders are outstanding players, and that's a style Page didn't help develop.
They do get boring as hell and repetitive, probably 95% of the time but we're not talking about their compositions but about their playing. And their playing is great.
Yngwie Malmsteen is amazing, for those suckers who say he's just speed "without feeling", Yngwie slaps their faces with his cock while playing Icarus' Dream Suite op. 4, which is the proof that Yngwie can play slow and with loads and loads of expression. His vibrato is brillant and his intonation is great.
If you can't see that it's because you have something against the guy and his music.
Michael Romeo is another monster who seems to be able to play anything. And then Luca Turilli and his amazingly clean arpeggios and lots and lots of players.
Those guys earned everything they are, with practice and practice. You sayind thag playing that clean and fast is just the result of "a couple of years" of practice is the most anti-musical thing you could ever say.
RESPECT THE FUCKING PLAYERS. Jimmy Page is NOT great and obviously NOT one of the best players ever. His creation might have been important but it has nothing to do with his playing. He is sloppy and for fuck's sake, it's SO obvious!!!
He wasn't technically developed and his songs are very simple most of the time. John Paul Jones wrote the interesting cool arrangements, not Page. Jonesy even wrote the riff from Black Dog.
Page was by far the worst player in Led Zep. John Paul Jones was an amazing musician, Bonzo was great and Robert was an excellent singer (even tho he'd go out of tune sometimes)... but Jimmy was just sloppy.
[/QUOTE]
I'm not disrespecting the players. Some so-called shredders are brilliant. I'd kiss Jason Becker's holy toes. Steve Vai certainly makes his guitar sing. Malmsteen did make some interesting stuff - but as YOU told me once, at one point he'd record scale exercises and call them "songs". That's what many shredders (and no offense - but you seem to admire all of them) do.
When someone first uses a PC, he will probably type like a moron, using only his index finger, and "hunting" each letter on the keyboard. After a couple of years visiting chatrooms for a couple of hours everyday, he'll type incredibly fast. That's pretty much what *some* of the music you admire (once again, not ALL - I DO acknowledge some fast guitarists are BRILLIANT and a few of their songs beat a few Queen songs and a few Led Zeppelin songs) do.
Tell me, what kind of "talent" is required to sit 2 hours a day and play the same scale up and down? You need nothing but patience. If you do that everyday, after a few years you will be playing fast like fuck. You won't even need to read hundreds of books about melody and harmony, you'll just sit down and impress lots of people going up and down the guitar neck so fucking fast that people won't even be able to tell accurately how many fingers you've got on your left hand.
BIG FUCKING DEAL.
Brian May's most beautiful solos weren't necessarily fast or highly
I have already said what I thought about him. I am not denying his influence on music at all, I'm just talking about his playing. I won't continue this discussion, it's just nonsense and it's gonna lead us nowhere. There's no reason for us to fight over such a childish thing.
I'll just ask you to respect MY opinion as I won't try to convince you to think like me. I do respect you admiring Page and his work, I just don't agree with him being the amazing guitar player people say he is.
I'll just ask you to respect MY opinion as I won't try to convince you to think like me. I do respect you admiring Page and his work, I just don't agree with him being the amazing guitar player people say he is.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<b>- Horsie Vai - wrote: [/QUOTENAME]I have already said what I thought about him. I am not denying his influence on music at all, I'm just talking about his playing. I won't continue this discussion, it's just nonsense and it's gonna lead us nowhere. There's no reason for us to fight over such a childish thing.
I'll just ask you to respect MY opinion as I won't try to convince you to think like me. I do respect you admiring Page and his work, I just don't agree with him being the amazing guitar player people say he is.[/QUOTE]
I'm not asking you to say he's an amazing guitarist. Just fucking stop saying he's sloppy.
And stop pissing the hell out of his fans on every thread about the guitar. I've never seen anyone on Queenzone randomly telling you about Page. I've only seen people mentioning him and YOU quoting the people and dissing them.
*EDIT* No, you do NOT respect people who admire his work. As I pointed out, you're always taking the piss whenever someone mentions Page.
An apology to the Led Zep fans you've insulted in the past months would be nice.
I'll just ask you to respect MY opinion as I won't try to convince you to think like me. I do respect you admiring Page and his work, I just don't agree with him being the amazing guitar player people say he is.[/QUOTE]
I'm not asking you to say he's an amazing guitarist. Just fucking stop saying he's sloppy.
And stop pissing the hell out of his fans on every thread about the guitar. I've never seen anyone on Queenzone randomly telling you about Page. I've only seen people mentioning him and YOU quoting the people and dissing them.
*EDIT* No, you do NOT respect people who admire his work. As I pointed out, you're always taking the piss whenever someone mentions Page.
An apology to the Led Zep fans you've insulted in the past months would be nice.
Hey, relax, it's just an internet forum. I don't wanna have a fight with you about this, let's just stop it here.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<b>- Horsie Vai - wrote: [/QUOTENAME]Hey, relax, it's just an internet forum. I don't wanna have a fight with you about this, let's just stop it here.[/QUOTE]
You are a stubborn idiot.
You are a stubborn idiot.
Yes, but I do NOT want to have a fight with you. Let's PLEASE stop it here.