[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Zebonka12 wrote: [/QUOTENAME]Mr. Scully hit the nail on the head.[/QUOTE]
Yep but it's a shame my English is fucking poor because before I translate my thoughts into English, I forget what I wanted to say.
Thread
Posts in chronological order
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Mr. Scully wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Zebonka12 wrote: [/QUOTENAME]Mr. Scully hit the nail on the head.[/QUOTE]
Yep but it's a shame my English is fucking poor because before I translate my thoughts into English, I forget what I wanted to say.[/QUOTE]
Some of us understand you perfectly :-) And also agree
Yep but it's a shame my English is fucking poor because before I translate my thoughts into English, I forget what I wanted to say.[/QUOTE]
Some of us understand you perfectly :-) And also agree
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Benn wrote: [/QUOTENAME]
Queen's archive and history has been treated worse than any other band that I can think of. Look at some of the releases that have come out by other bands up there in the "great" category;[/QUOTE]
And even a good number of bands that could barely be described as mediocre and unimportant have better archive and box set releases than we've ever seen from Queen!
Queen's archive and history has been treated worse than any other band that I can think of. Look at some of the releases that have come out by other bands up there in the "great" category;[/QUOTE]
And even a good number of bands that could barely be described as mediocre and unimportant have better archive and box set releases than we've ever seen from Queen!
Serious discussion, yeah right. Seems like every single thread on this forum has pepole throwing shit at eachother. Why don´t we just forget about the very thing that brought us here, Queen, and make this a "mock everyone out there" forum?
I thought many contributions were helpful. As for the mocking, well, I didn't engage in it. That's what I wrote, and it's the simple truth, whether the creator of the thread like it or not:
Me: "I was really gripped by Queen while watching in VHS as a kid part of the concert held at Hammersmith Odeon, 1979. Up until then, I liked the band, period. After watching the concert, I became a fan and came to respect the band.
Almost 20 years have gone by. If it were not for the painstaking and careful work done by bootlegers, collectors, tv and radio stations, I'd never have become a Queen fan, I think. Most of the really fascinating material available is the result of dedicated fans and collectors who really respect the band and its history.
Just a thought."
I couldn't find any mockery that, it's just a simple statement. Once the thread was created, I felt I could share my own experience without mocking anyone. My harsh comments belong to another threat, and I don't regret having made them - it was not mockery. It was a critique. And critiques, I think, are not the same as mockery. No one, in fact, is beyond them, and the topic is relevant for people like myself who have been gripped by Queen, and bought Queen's official releases, after watching and listening the material collected and preserved by fans and so on.
In fact, the concert I'm talking about, which is one of Queen's greatest statements as a band, in my humble opinion, and the greatest with regards to Freddie - it's a singing lesson, really - was broadcast 30 - not 20, I was wrong! - years ago.
It was, indeed, just a thought.
I'm not asking for the concert to be finally released because, well, there'd be no point in doing so anymore, I guess, but there is other stuff which deserves a better treatment. The band's history deserves a better treatment, I think.
But, again, it's just my opinion and, if people want to take it personally, they're free to do it, I have no control over how people react to thoughts, ideas or even critiques.
Take care!
Me: "I was really gripped by Queen while watching in VHS as a kid part of the concert held at Hammersmith Odeon, 1979. Up until then, I liked the band, period. After watching the concert, I became a fan and came to respect the band.
Almost 20 years have gone by. If it were not for the painstaking and careful work done by bootlegers, collectors, tv and radio stations, I'd never have become a Queen fan, I think. Most of the really fascinating material available is the result of dedicated fans and collectors who really respect the band and its history.
Just a thought."
I couldn't find any mockery that, it's just a simple statement. Once the thread was created, I felt I could share my own experience without mocking anyone. My harsh comments belong to another threat, and I don't regret having made them - it was not mockery. It was a critique. And critiques, I think, are not the same as mockery. No one, in fact, is beyond them, and the topic is relevant for people like myself who have been gripped by Queen, and bought Queen's official releases, after watching and listening the material collected and preserved by fans and so on.
In fact, the concert I'm talking about, which is one of Queen's greatest statements as a band, in my humble opinion, and the greatest with regards to Freddie - it's a singing lesson, really - was broadcast 30 - not 20, I was wrong! - years ago.
It was, indeed, just a thought.
I'm not asking for the concert to be finally released because, well, there'd be no point in doing so anymore, I guess, but there is other stuff which deserves a better treatment. The band's history deserves a better treatment, I think.
But, again, it's just my opinion and, if people want to take it personally, they're free to do it, I have no control over how people react to thoughts, ideas or even critiques.
Take care!
You all are out of touch with the way the music industry work. As far as I am concerned Queen are as great as Led Zeppelin and Michael Jackson and VERY little has been released from their archives. So LAY off as the greats have barely touched their archives as well. PLUS there is always the issure of finding new things along the way so that whatever releases are done will be as proper as possible by giving more time before they are released.
You all are ready and willing to lead Queen and Mr. Brooks off to the gallows I'm sure as soon as some release or releases are done no matter what they are because they will NEVER live up to some people's expectations.
There is a strategic way to release things and the last thing you all are in are in the know. Queen aren't about to commit suicide just to satisfy some of you who are about to die for whatever reason. Sorry. It is because they are mean. Aren't they?
You all are ready and willing to lead Queen and Mr. Brooks off to the gallows I'm sure as soon as some release or releases are done no matter what they are because they will NEVER live up to some people's expectations.
There is a strategic way to release things and the last thing you all are in are in the know. Queen aren't about to commit suicide just to satisfy some of you who are about to die for whatever reason. Sorry. It is because they are mean. Aren't they?
I understand Greg, because he´s following the rules of his company. If you read is post, it´s not him who refuses to do it, it´s Brian.
Having said this, i think that Brian and Jim - i don´t believe Roger even thinks about tis - are living in the past.
I´m 30 years now, and as time goes by, the less interested i am in Queen activity. We are now in the Internet days, and still i don´t see Queen take full advantage of it. We´re in a time where Radiohead simply shared their new album "Rainbows" and the person who downloaded it would only paid what they could afford for it(or what they think the value was).
This is not meant for Greg, but Queenproductions are old fashioned, and i think it´s time to wake up!
well, they can do whathever they want really, but people are loosing interest in them. I am HUGE fan of Queen, but i really don´t care anymore if they want to release the box sets or not.
It seems like everything is a secret- it seems queen have a relation of "cold war" with their fans.
-Every opinion guiven by real fans on the internet were discarded by QP. This is unthinkable!
There are companies wich pay millions of dollars on surveys to release products, and this guys at QP have yeat to take the fans opinion in consideration- for free!
-To guive away "Say it´s not true" for free only for selling it afterwards and guive the money to charity i thought it was a joke- and a bad joke!
They´re just clueless!
There´s too much things to be said, but why bother? - They think they´re on the right direction.
God Bless´em!
Take care
Having said this, i think that Brian and Jim - i don´t believe Roger even thinks about tis - are living in the past.
I´m 30 years now, and as time goes by, the less interested i am in Queen activity. We are now in the Internet days, and still i don´t see Queen take full advantage of it. We´re in a time where Radiohead simply shared their new album "Rainbows" and the person who downloaded it would only paid what they could afford for it(or what they think the value was).
This is not meant for Greg, but Queenproductions are old fashioned, and i think it´s time to wake up!
well, they can do whathever they want really, but people are loosing interest in them. I am HUGE fan of Queen, but i really don´t care anymore if they want to release the box sets or not.
It seems like everything is a secret- it seems queen have a relation of "cold war" with their fans.
-Every opinion guiven by real fans on the internet were discarded by QP. This is unthinkable!
There are companies wich pay millions of dollars on surveys to release products, and this guys at QP have yeat to take the fans opinion in consideration- for free!
-To guive away "Say it´s not true" for free only for selling it afterwards and guive the money to charity i thought it was a joke- and a bad joke!
They´re just clueless!
There´s too much things to be said, but why bother? - They think they´re on the right direction.
God Bless´em!
Take care
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]AlexRocks wrote: [/QUOTENAME]Queen aren't about to commit suicide just to satisfy some of you who are about to die for whatever reason. Sorry. It is because they are mean. Aren't they?[/QUOTE]
Huh?
Huh?
I meant that comment in a business way for Queen Erin. Sorry. It's just the internet. Ahem. Anyway!
Again I think some people are waiting until an appropriate time before certain things are released.
From my understanding the Radiohead free give away did not go over as well as everyone trys to claim. Ask Gene Simmons from the mighty KISS. He made the great point himself. NO ONE who is sane opens up a store and says, "Hey just pay whatever you want for the products here!" I don't think that is too difficult to understand.
Yes there are changes in the music industry BUT it is not all black and white there are still things from the past that ring true. Frankly I think that there are more things from the past that ring true than certain things going on with the internet which is seems unpredictable at best other than guarenteeing your product (the music) gets stolen with it. Seems like a good reason to not release ANY product but let's not make too much of a point of that huh?
Again I think some people are waiting until an appropriate time before certain things are released.
From my understanding the Radiohead free give away did not go over as well as everyone trys to claim. Ask Gene Simmons from the mighty KISS. He made the great point himself. NO ONE who is sane opens up a store and says, "Hey just pay whatever you want for the products here!" I don't think that is too difficult to understand.
Yes there are changes in the music industry BUT it is not all black and white there are still things from the past that ring true. Frankly I think that there are more things from the past that ring true than certain things going on with the internet which is seems unpredictable at best other than guarenteeing your product (the music) gets stolen with it. Seems like a good reason to not release ANY product but let's not make too much of a point of that huh?
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]AlexRocks wrote: [/QUOTENAME]
As far as I am concerned Queen are as great as Led Zeppelin and Michael Jackson and VERY little has been released from their archives.
[/QUOTE]
Not that I'm qualified to comment on Michael Jackson, but this is a poor example.
'VERY little' might be appropriate when examining just how much stuff might be locked up in the Led Zeppelin vault, but comparitively speaking - at least they've released something. That live DVD set (the one with the desert on the cover) is great. Just one of those for Queen's 70's shows would suit me fine.
The other bands might have released comparitively little, but they're still doing miles better than Queen, and two wrongs sure as shit don't make a right.
As far as I am concerned Queen are as great as Led Zeppelin and Michael Jackson and VERY little has been released from their archives.
[/QUOTE]
Not that I'm qualified to comment on Michael Jackson, but this is a poor example.
'VERY little' might be appropriate when examining just how much stuff might be locked up in the Led Zeppelin vault, but comparitively speaking - at least they've released something. That live DVD set (the one with the desert on the cover) is great. Just one of those for Queen's 70's shows would suit me fine.
The other bands might have released comparitively little, but they're still doing miles better than Queen, and two wrongs sure as shit don't make a right.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]henke1980 wrote: [/QUOTENAME]Serious discussion, yeah right. Seems like every single thread on this forum has pepole throwing shit at eachother.
[/QUOTE]
You've got it all worked out. No one can give an honest opinion on your post without sounding like they're name-calling, thus 'proving' your very flimsy point.
Kudos.
You might take a minute to realise that you weren't contributing much of anything to anyone with this ridiculous post. We were getting along just fine without you; some of us even making some comments that were appropriate to the discussion!
PS. Forum suggestions should go in the correct forum:
http://queenzone.com/queenzone/forumnew/forum_view.aspx?Q=7
Here you go.
[/QUOTE]
You've got it all worked out. No one can give an honest opinion on your post without sounding like they're name-calling, thus 'proving' your very flimsy point.
Kudos.
You might take a minute to realise that you weren't contributing much of anything to anyone with this ridiculous post. We were getting along just fine without you; some of us even making some comments that were appropriate to the discussion!
PS. Forum suggestions should go in the correct forum:
http://queenzone.com/queenzone/forumnew/forum_view.aspx?Q=7
Here you go.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]AlexRocks wrote: [/QUOTENAME]As far as I am concerned Queen are as great as Led Zeppelin and Michael Jackson and VERY little has been released from their archives.[/QUOTE]
I'm guessing you haven't heard of the early 2000 re-issues of the MJ albums? The ones where first studio albums were padded with about four demos each? Or the 4cd+dvd boxset spanning his entire career, which included another 10 demos, b-sides, soundtrack rarities, and a previously unreleased concert video...?
Alex dear, if you compare the lack of Queen products to other artists, please try to find an artist who has made LESS of an effort.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]AlexRocks wrote: [/QUOTENAME]There is a strategic way to release things and the last thing you all are in are in the know.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, and then there's the piss-poor, rip-off-way to release things which Queen excels in.
I'm guessing you haven't heard of the early 2000 re-issues of the MJ albums? The ones where first studio albums were padded with about four demos each? Or the 4cd+dvd boxset spanning his entire career, which included another 10 demos, b-sides, soundtrack rarities, and a previously unreleased concert video...?
Alex dear, if you compare the lack of Queen products to other artists, please try to find an artist who has made LESS of an effort.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]AlexRocks wrote: [/QUOTENAME]There is a strategic way to release things and the last thing you all are in are in the know.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, and then there's the piss-poor, rip-off-way to release things which Queen excels in.
I want to finish collection of promo videos, just gimme GVH3. Fuck the boxset, fuck the Budapest DVD, fuck the merchandise book, fuck the crappy musicals. Is it possible to complete at least one project? First E.P., first videosingle, first this, first that, but nothing second...
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Serry... wrote: [/QUOTENAME]I want to finish collection of promo videos, just gimme GVH3. Fuck the boxset, fuck the Budapest DVD, fuck the merchandise book, fuck the crappy musicals. Is it possible to complete at least one project? First E.P., first videosingle, first this, first that, but nothing second...[/QUOTE]
To Mr Scully...
I (GB) offer these comments... I'll spell it out for you Scully, as you are clearly, deliberately as far as I can see, IGNORING the obvious discourtesies within this situation. You ALWAYS do this, instead of saying "Fair comment Greg." God forbid you should be seen by your QZ playmates as ever agreeing with GB!!!!!!!!
My comments are in CAP LETTERS after Scully's...
"Much Ado For Nothing"?
Greg, what the hell do you expect? Respecting your polite requests? We've heard polite requests from the owners of concert venues for 30+ years - that we're not allowed to record or take photos. You know what - we DO that anyway. We record everything we can and we're proud of it.
we DO that anyway. We record everything we can and we're proud of it.
YES. YOU CLEARLY HAVE NO RESPECT FOR PEOPLE'S WISHES. IF YOU THINK THAT'S TO BE PROUD OF, IT SAYS MUCH ABOUT YOU. WHEN A PERSON TOTALLY DISREGARDS THE WISHES OF OTHERS (USUALLY FOR FINANCIAL GAIN, WITH BOOTLEGS) IT ONLY SHOWS THEM AS A NASTY, SELFISH PERSON. THERE ARE NO CHARMING ENDEARING ELEMENTS IN THIS, SCULLY. YOU MAKE YOURSELF SOUND LIKE SOME KIND OF HERO FIGURE. CAN YOU IMAGINE WHAT BRIAN OR ROGER WOULD SAY TO YOU IF YOU SAID SUCH A THING TO THEM IN ALL SERIOUSNESS.... "Well Brian May, and you too Roger, we're not allowed to record or take photos. You know what - we DO that anyway. We record everything we can and we're proud of it." You sound like a total bloody moron.
MR SCULY. THIS HONESTLY IS VERY VERY SIMPLE TO UNDERSTAND. JUST ADMIT IT INSTEAD OF FIGHTING ME JUST FOR THE SAKE OF IT AND BECAUSE IT MAKES YOU MORE POPULAR ON QZ, THAN IF YOU ARE SEEN TO BE AGREEING WITH ME.... I'LL SPELL IT OUT FOR YOU.
BRIAN KINDLY AGREED TO LET ME PLAY HIS RARITIES. HE DID NOT WANT THEM RECORDED, BOOTLEGGED, ABUSED. FAIR ENOUGH, ISN'T IT, BECAUSE AFTER ALL IT'S HIS WORK AND HIS PROPERTY, AND ALL I WAS DOING (FOR FANS' BENEFIT) WAS 'BORROWING' THAT MUSIC SO PEOPLE LIKE YOU COULD HEAR IT. I ASKED THAT NO-ONE RECORD THE MUSIC. IN FACT I ASKED SEVERAL TIMES THAT NO-ONE RECORD ANY PART OF THE 'SESSION'. SO CLEARLY THAT INCLUDES MY EXPLANATIONS TOO. I ASKED THAT PEOPLE RESPECT THIS SINGLE REQUEST. I ASKED THAT PEOPLE RESPECT BRIAN'S REQUEST. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THIS CONCEPT, SCULLY???? CAN YOU ACCEPT THAT IT WAS A WISH THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN RESPECTED, NOT IGNORED AND ABUSED???
SO HERE YOU ARE NOW SAYING THAT IT DOES NOT MATTER. THAT SAYS A LOT ABOUT YOU.
IT'S ALWAYS THE SAME HERE ON QZ... PEOPLE ACTUALLY HAVE TO HAVE THINGS LIKE THIS EXPLAINED TO THEM, BECAUSE IT'S NOT WITHIN THEM TO BE AWARE OF IT NATURALLY. SCULLY, NO DOUBT YOU LIKE PEOPLE TO RESPECT YOUR WISHES, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU SHARE INFO. WHEN THAT IS ABUSED YOU PROBABLY GET RIGHTLY AND JUSTLY UPSET TOO.
I HAVE CERTAINLY SEEN YOU COMPLAINING ENOUGH ABOUT THESE THINGS. YOU HAVE A SHORT MEMORY SCULLY. OK FOR YOU GET PISSED OFF ABOUT DISCOURTESY AND BEING ABUSED.... BUT THEN IN THE NEXT MONTH YOU SAYING SUCH THINGS ARE GREAT AND FINE, AND THAT YOU'RE PROUD OF IT. YOU ARE A HYPOCRIT. THINK ABOUT THIS, SCULLY. STOP ARGUING FOR THE SAKE OF IT AND SERIOUSLY CONSIDER WHAT YOU HAVE SAID IN THE PAST, WHEN YOU GET ABUSED ON YOUR SITE, AND THEN REALISE WHAT YOU'VE WRITTEN HERE!
NOW... BEFORE YOU START CITING ALL THE INSTANCES WHEREBY YOU AND YOUR TRUST HAS BEEN ABUSED.... I'M NOT INTERESTED. ALL I WANT YOU TO DO IS UNDERSTAND THE CONCEPT THAT ANYONE WHO RECORDED THAT SESSION, ABUSING AND DISRESPECTING WHAT I CLEARLY ASKED (ON BM'S BEHALF) IS IN BREACH OF THAT TRUST AND HAS FUCKED IT UP FOR EVERYONE ELSE.... DESPITE ME MAKING THAT VERY THING VERY CLEAR.
DO YOU SEE THE POINT SCULLY??
ARE YOU STILL GONNA SAY THAT IT'S OK TO DISRESPECT PEOPLE LIKE THAT, BECAUSE THATS THE WAY AND THE NATURE OF BOOTLEGGING????
I (GB) offer these comments... I'll spell it out for you Scully, as you are clearly, deliberately as far as I can see, IGNORING the obvious discourtesies within this situation. You ALWAYS do this, instead of saying "Fair comment Greg." God forbid you should be seen by your QZ playmates as ever agreeing with GB!!!!!!!!
My comments are in CAP LETTERS after Scully's...
"Much Ado For Nothing"?
Greg, what the hell do you expect? Respecting your polite requests? We've heard polite requests from the owners of concert venues for 30+ years - that we're not allowed to record or take photos. You know what - we DO that anyway. We record everything we can and we're proud of it.
we DO that anyway. We record everything we can and we're proud of it.
YES. YOU CLEARLY HAVE NO RESPECT FOR PEOPLE'S WISHES. IF YOU THINK THAT'S TO BE PROUD OF, IT SAYS MUCH ABOUT YOU. WHEN A PERSON TOTALLY DISREGARDS THE WISHES OF OTHERS (USUALLY FOR FINANCIAL GAIN, WITH BOOTLEGS) IT ONLY SHOWS THEM AS A NASTY, SELFISH PERSON. THERE ARE NO CHARMING ENDEARING ELEMENTS IN THIS, SCULLY. YOU MAKE YOURSELF SOUND LIKE SOME KIND OF HERO FIGURE. CAN YOU IMAGINE WHAT BRIAN OR ROGER WOULD SAY TO YOU IF YOU SAID SUCH A THING TO THEM IN ALL SERIOUSNESS.... "Well Brian May, and you too Roger, we're not allowed to record or take photos. You know what - we DO that anyway. We record everything we can and we're proud of it." You sound like a total bloody moron.
MR SCULY. THIS HONESTLY IS VERY VERY SIMPLE TO UNDERSTAND. JUST ADMIT IT INSTEAD OF FIGHTING ME JUST FOR THE SAKE OF IT AND BECAUSE IT MAKES YOU MORE POPULAR ON QZ, THAN IF YOU ARE SEEN TO BE AGREEING WITH ME.... I'LL SPELL IT OUT FOR YOU.
BRIAN KINDLY AGREED TO LET ME PLAY HIS RARITIES. HE DID NOT WANT THEM RECORDED, BOOTLEGGED, ABUSED. FAIR ENOUGH, ISN'T IT, BECAUSE AFTER ALL IT'S HIS WORK AND HIS PROPERTY, AND ALL I WAS DOING (FOR FANS' BENEFIT) WAS 'BORROWING' THAT MUSIC SO PEOPLE LIKE YOU COULD HEAR IT. I ASKED THAT NO-ONE RECORD THE MUSIC. IN FACT I ASKED SEVERAL TIMES THAT NO-ONE RECORD ANY PART OF THE 'SESSION'. SO CLEARLY THAT INCLUDES MY EXPLANATIONS TOO. I ASKED THAT PEOPLE RESPECT THIS SINGLE REQUEST. I ASKED THAT PEOPLE RESPECT BRIAN'S REQUEST. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THIS CONCEPT, SCULLY???? CAN YOU ACCEPT THAT IT WAS A WISH THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN RESPECTED, NOT IGNORED AND ABUSED???
SO HERE YOU ARE NOW SAYING THAT IT DOES NOT MATTER. THAT SAYS A LOT ABOUT YOU.
IT'S ALWAYS THE SAME HERE ON QZ... PEOPLE ACTUALLY HAVE TO HAVE THINGS LIKE THIS EXPLAINED TO THEM, BECAUSE IT'S NOT WITHIN THEM TO BE AWARE OF IT NATURALLY. SCULLY, NO DOUBT YOU LIKE PEOPLE TO RESPECT YOUR WISHES, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU SHARE INFO. WHEN THAT IS ABUSED YOU PROBABLY GET RIGHTLY AND JUSTLY UPSET TOO.
I HAVE CERTAINLY SEEN YOU COMPLAINING ENOUGH ABOUT THESE THINGS. YOU HAVE A SHORT MEMORY SCULLY. OK FOR YOU GET PISSED OFF ABOUT DISCOURTESY AND BEING ABUSED.... BUT THEN IN THE NEXT MONTH YOU SAYING SUCH THINGS ARE GREAT AND FINE, AND THAT YOU'RE PROUD OF IT. YOU ARE A HYPOCRIT. THINK ABOUT THIS, SCULLY. STOP ARGUING FOR THE SAKE OF IT AND SERIOUSLY CONSIDER WHAT YOU HAVE SAID IN THE PAST, WHEN YOU GET ABUSED ON YOUR SITE, AND THEN REALISE WHAT YOU'VE WRITTEN HERE!
NOW... BEFORE YOU START CITING ALL THE INSTANCES WHEREBY YOU AND YOUR TRUST HAS BEEN ABUSED.... I'M NOT INTERESTED. ALL I WANT YOU TO DO IS UNDERSTAND THE CONCEPT THAT ANYONE WHO RECORDED THAT SESSION, ABUSING AND DISRESPECTING WHAT I CLEARLY ASKED (ON BM'S BEHALF) IS IN BREACH OF THAT TRUST AND HAS FUCKED IT UP FOR EVERYONE ELSE.... DESPITE ME MAKING THAT VERY THING VERY CLEAR.
DO YOU SEE THE POINT SCULLY??
ARE YOU STILL GONNA SAY THAT IT'S OK TO DISRESPECT PEOPLE LIKE THAT, BECAUSE THATS THE WAY AND THE NATURE OF BOOTLEGGING????