I don't understand this "change" thing. Change what? Change the people who run the country? You cannot have an administration full of inexperienced newbies, so Obama NEEDS to picks some people who are in some way involved with the Clinton administration because the last Democratic president before Clinton was Carter and his people must all be close to 90. Also, I do not see what was so wrong about the Clinton administration, he balanced the budget and he had an approval rate of 65% when he left office. What has changed since then?
Now you say that Hillary would lose the election - but if you count all votes (including the two states that do not count because they voted at the wrong time) Hillary Clinton won the majority of the Democratic votes. If I were a Hillary voter I would be mad as hell now and I think many are. It's just not smart to ignore such a big part of the party. Obama manouvered himself in a position where he cannot win: Republicans won't vote for him, a part of his party won't vote for him and Hillary Clinton will have every right to run next time because she was not invited on his ticket.
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If Obama picked her, she would undermine every thing he did. They clearly had different agendas throughout the race and it got pretty heated between the two. He doesn't want someone second-guessing him in the press, which is exactly what Hilary would do.
And, let's be obvious. The first Black President is enough to shoot for. Americans wouldn't go for the first Black President and the first Woman Vice President in the same election.
And, let's be obvious. The first Black President is enough to shoot for. Americans wouldn't go for the first Black President and the first Woman Vice President in the same election.
I still don't think the Republicans have a chance in hell at winning this election. Obama could pick Rupaul as his running mate and still win.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]YourValentine wrote: [/QUOTENAME]I don't understand this "change" thing. Change what? Change the people who run the country? You cannot have an administration full of inexperienced newbies, so Obama NEEDS to picks some people who are in some way involved with the Clinton administration because the last Democratic president before Clinton was Carter and his people must all be close to 90. Also, I do not see what was so wrong about the Clinton administration, he balanced the budget and he had an approval rate of 65% when he left office. What has changed since then?
Now you say that Hillary would lose the election - but if you count all votes (including the two states that do not count because they voted at the wrong time) Hillary Clinton won the majority of the Democratic votes. If I were a Hillary voter I would be mad as hell now and I think many are. It's just not smart to ignore such a big part of the party. Obama manouvered himself in a position where he cannot win: Republicans won't vote for him, a part of his party won't vote for him and Hillary Clinton will have every right to run next time because she was not invited on his ticket. [/QUOTE]
Despite how good many believe Clinton's presidency was - and I'm one of the 'believers' - it was rife with partisan fury. Much of what he wanted to get done, namely health care, didn't get done because of one upping between the parties. That's why Bush openly lied (the first time) and said he was a uniter not a divider and he'd unite the country after Clinton's terms in office had ended. The nation is now bitterly divided even moreso than before.
People don't just dislike the Clintons, they hate them. Then, Obama's campaign spun them as racists and those wanting to vote for the first black candidate had an easy reason to switch their backing from Hillary to Obama. The chance of them switching back is as slim as the chance of some of Hillary's supports switching to Obama - though she made a brilliant speech last night to entice people to do so. I doubt Obama could have done as well to convince his followers to support Hillary if she'd been the nominee.
The "change" is new attitude. With Hillary as VP, it's hard to imagine the government running any differently than ever before. With Obama and Biden - a not-yet-jaded, first-term senator and a 'my way' seasoned senator, there is a chance for things to be different. Or, at least, the impression is such.
As for Obama putting himself in a position where he cannot win - I don't agree. While not everyone is FOR him and Biden, a solid chunk of the country is against the status quo. A McCain administration will continue that status quo. That puts Obama - with a foreign policy expert as his partner - in a very good position to win, IMO.
Now you say that Hillary would lose the election - but if you count all votes (including the two states that do not count because they voted at the wrong time) Hillary Clinton won the majority of the Democratic votes. If I were a Hillary voter I would be mad as hell now and I think many are. It's just not smart to ignore such a big part of the party. Obama manouvered himself in a position where he cannot win: Republicans won't vote for him, a part of his party won't vote for him and Hillary Clinton will have every right to run next time because she was not invited on his ticket. [/QUOTE]
Despite how good many believe Clinton's presidency was - and I'm one of the 'believers' - it was rife with partisan fury. Much of what he wanted to get done, namely health care, didn't get done because of one upping between the parties. That's why Bush openly lied (the first time) and said he was a uniter not a divider and he'd unite the country after Clinton's terms in office had ended. The nation is now bitterly divided even moreso than before.
People don't just dislike the Clintons, they hate them. Then, Obama's campaign spun them as racists and those wanting to vote for the first black candidate had an easy reason to switch their backing from Hillary to Obama. The chance of them switching back is as slim as the chance of some of Hillary's supports switching to Obama - though she made a brilliant speech last night to entice people to do so. I doubt Obama could have done as well to convince his followers to support Hillary if she'd been the nominee.
The "change" is new attitude. With Hillary as VP, it's hard to imagine the government running any differently than ever before. With Obama and Biden - a not-yet-jaded, first-term senator and a 'my way' seasoned senator, there is a chance for things to be different. Or, at least, the impression is such.
As for Obama putting himself in a position where he cannot win - I don't agree. While not everyone is FOR him and Biden, a solid chunk of the country is against the status quo. A McCain administration will continue that status quo. That puts Obama - with a foreign policy expert as his partner - in a very good position to win, IMO.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Music Man wrote: [/QUOTENAME]I still don't think the Republicans have a chance in hell at winning this election. Obama could pick Rupaul as his running mate and still win.[/QUOTE]
Well, that would "swing" my vote.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]magicalfreddiemercury wrote: [/QUOTENAME]The "change" is new attitude....
there is a chance for things to be different...
A McCain administration will continue that status quo...
[/QUOTE]
Wow. You must know something that no one else on the planet does.
You know that Obama will be a "change" and McCain will be the same. I hear that argument EVERY four years since 1980, when I was first becoming aware of politics... But you're telling me this time is different? How are you so sure of this?
Since you know this stuff, can you also tell me:
1. When property values will start to rise (specific date, please)
2. What's going to happen to the interest rate, exactly, for the next 6 months
3. What countries are going to cause world problems that the US is going to have to go fix
4. How well is Cosmos Rocks going to chart later this year
Well, that would "swing" my vote.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]magicalfreddiemercury wrote: [/QUOTENAME]The "change" is new attitude....
there is a chance for things to be different...
A McCain administration will continue that status quo...
[/QUOTE]
Wow. You must know something that no one else on the planet does.
You know that Obama will be a "change" and McCain will be the same. I hear that argument EVERY four years since 1980, when I was first becoming aware of politics... But you're telling me this time is different? How are you so sure of this?
Since you know this stuff, can you also tell me:
1. When property values will start to rise (specific date, please)
2. What's going to happen to the interest rate, exactly, for the next 6 months
3. What countries are going to cause world problems that the US is going to have to go fix
4. How well is Cosmos Rocks going to chart later this year
I'm going waaaaaaaay out on a limb here but I don't think Obama wants to win. I think he is scared as hell that he has gotten this far. He knows he's got no experience, he knows he's gotten this far on him not being the "normal" candidate, he is a superstar for this.
Again....waaaay on a limb but I sense fear and an "oh shit what do I do now" factor. Joe Biden has the experience yes, but Hillary had the votes and she has experience. That can't be denied. Kennedy chose his vice president bc he knew it would win the election for him even though they hated each other vehemently. Biden even attacked Obama while he was running for the Democratic nom as having no experience.
Something just tells me that Obama is not making good choices already and maybe it's subconsiously on purpose. Call it silly but that's me.. :)
Again....waaaay on a limb but I sense fear and an "oh shit what do I do now" factor. Joe Biden has the experience yes, but Hillary had the votes and she has experience. That can't be denied. Kennedy chose his vice president bc he knew it would win the election for him even though they hated each other vehemently. Biden even attacked Obama while he was running for the Democratic nom as having no experience.
Something just tells me that Obama is not making good choices already and maybe it's subconsiously on purpose. Call it silly but that's me.. :)
@ Barb
Magical has it right. Hilary is far too polarizing a figure. Most of the politicos don't like her because she made too many enemies during her husband's administration trying to get things rammed through (like Health Care Reform) that never did get through. Besides, it's not the job of the First Lady to create policy; so that pissed off the politicos.
Believe it or not, even many feminists don't like her because she stayed with Bill after he cheated. Granted she's got tons of female supporters, but some of the die-hard feminists won't stand for her because she couldn't walk away from Bill.
Then there's the little matter of Hilary doesn't want the number 2 slot. She's going for number one, come hell or high water. Her close supporters and advisers have said that she has every intention of running in 2012. Even if Obama were to offer her the VP slot, she would CONSTANTLY be butting in, constantly trying to undermine him to get what she wants accomplished. That's what she was trying to do to her HUSBAND when she was only first lady. Putting her in the VP slot would be a major mistake.
In the end, I'm not sure it matters who Obama chose. He's going to win this thing in a walk out in all likelihood. If the Democrats can't win now, when there is such palatable disgust with the Republicans party, then they will cease to be a major player in politics forever.
Magical has it right. Hilary is far too polarizing a figure. Most of the politicos don't like her because she made too many enemies during her husband's administration trying to get things rammed through (like Health Care Reform) that never did get through. Besides, it's not the job of the First Lady to create policy; so that pissed off the politicos.
Believe it or not, even many feminists don't like her because she stayed with Bill after he cheated. Granted she's got tons of female supporters, but some of the die-hard feminists won't stand for her because she couldn't walk away from Bill.
Then there's the little matter of Hilary doesn't want the number 2 slot. She's going for number one, come hell or high water. Her close supporters and advisers have said that she has every intention of running in 2012. Even if Obama were to offer her the VP slot, she would CONSTANTLY be butting in, constantly trying to undermine him to get what she wants accomplished. That's what she was trying to do to her HUSBAND when she was only first lady. Putting her in the VP slot would be a major mistake.
In the end, I'm not sure it matters who Obama chose. He's going to win this thing in a walk out in all likelihood. If the Democrats can't win now, when there is such palatable disgust with the Republicans party, then they will cease to be a major player in politics forever.
Chelsea Clinton has a much better chance at President than her Mom does. Hilary is done.
Perhaps this "change" is not visible to everybody, but I think I see it clearly now. I watched the Democratic Convention this year in HD. That must have been it! Clearly you can see a Beacon of Hope. The Wave Of Change is also quite apparant.
Perhaps this "change" is not visible to everybody, but I think I see it clearly now. I watched the Democratic Convention this year in HD. That must have been it! Clearly you can see a Beacon of Hope. The Wave Of Change is also quite apparant.
catholics distrust obama... whoa biden is catholic..hmmmmmmmmmmm another reason to pick him...yup here comes the 'change' its called the same ole stuff just in a different party..
i dont this this election is a walk away by any means... lets see what kind of a bounce he gets when the convention ends--after his VP pick he dropped 4 points and they are running neck and neck now... never mind you still have about 40% of Hilary fans ready to vote for MCcain still..
microwave been hearing the same since i became aware of politice years ago
everyone is going to fix social security
make america stronger
bring values back yadda yadda
you just got to filter the bull and the things we want to hear out to figure out the truth
as far as bush being the uniter--we have the democrats to look to for the washington syndrome getting worse- it was payback time for the impeachment-- the 'stealing' of the election and so on...
they get the house back and still they cant get anything done....their approval rating is lower then bush's....
i dont this this election is a walk away by any means... lets see what kind of a bounce he gets when the convention ends--after his VP pick he dropped 4 points and they are running neck and neck now... never mind you still have about 40% of Hilary fans ready to vote for MCcain still..
microwave been hearing the same since i became aware of politice years ago
everyone is going to fix social security
make america stronger
bring values back yadda yadda
you just got to filter the bull and the things we want to hear out to figure out the truth
as far as bush being the uniter--we have the democrats to look to for the washington syndrome getting worse- it was payback time for the impeachment-- the 'stealing' of the election and so on...
they get the house back and still they cant get anything done....their approval rating is lower then bush's....