Musical References:
- 0:00 - 3:48 draws from Pink Floyd's "Shine On You Crazy Diamond,"
Tangerine Dream, and Queen's "Bijou"
- 3:49 - Spock's Beard theme
- 4:33 - Änglagård flute "Godfather" theme similarities
[b]- 6:33 - Bohemian Rhapsody piano theme[/b]
- 9:00 - During the bass groove the guitar arpeggio plays Anna Lee's
verse vocal melody
- 12:15 - Marillion keyboards with Wakeman flourish
- 12:17 - Styx's Sequential Circuites Prophet 5 synth part
- 17:47 - Jingle Bells on keyboards
- 17:55 - Spock's Beard / Neal Morse acoustic guitar break
- 18:43 - Dave Mustaine vocal style with "Forgotten Sons" prayer feel
- 19:55 - Godfather theme reprise
- 21:30 - Guitar tone is very Brian May AC30ish and the phrasing is
very similar to his
- A vocal harmony is Razor's Edge is also used in "Get Back" by The
Beatles (which interestingly enough is referenced in Full Circle)
Nuggets:
- 14:03 - A sample of someone saying "This is where we came in" plays.
This sample is most likely referencing Pink Floyd's "The Wall." At the
end of The Wall someone says "So this is where..." and at the
beginning some says "...we came in." This is probably emphasis of
Octavarium's focus on how things go in cycles and repeat, the end is
the beginning. This also is a reference to their influences growing up
as the coming lyrics signify.
There's a website (!!!!!!!!!!!) dedicated only to a lengthy analysis of Octavarium:
It's a treat for DM fans. I like Image and Words, it's a great album. And I loved the live set in Budokan - it was a great buy, it was really worth getting.
---As for SHA and Led, the thread naturally developed to a broader question about plagiarism, copy and influence - I posted something I wrote last year and many people liked, a user asked me to post again, and I did it.
An user misunderstood the whole thing, just picked that line drawing the comparison between SHA and Led out of context and insisted on it - he didn't even understand I was refering to sheer heart attack the song; and, more, that it was only an illustration of a broader issue that had been brought up.
Then came the guy saying that Led stinks, and I showed him, who's a Freddie lover, that Freddie not only loved Led Zeppelin, but had Robert Plant as one of his favorite singers - and he said so at least in two occasions: 1975 and 1977 - that is, encompassing both SHA the album, which Brian thinks is quite "dirty" and influenced by Led, by the way, and Sheer Heart Attack the song, where I think Freddie drew heavily, apart from the chorus, on Plant's bluesy, hard rock but at the same time more glam, grooved and delicate style.
In that way, I tried, so to speak, to contribute in a helpful way answering to the "led stinks" phrase by presenting, I hope, a simple helpful reasoning made in the context of the thread and as a result of a misundersating of what I had actually written.
So people can always try to undermine helpful, or well-intentioned tries to make helpful inputs by focusing, and wrongly so, on a single phrase, and so on.
It's kind of usual here and I just try to make the best out of what I think isn't helpful at all.
Best regards and I wish you good,
P.S.: I'd like to kindly ask people who may agree or disagree with whatever phrase I've written to do so, if you feel like doing, of course, [b]in another thread, [/b]to avoid spoiling this one.
Cheers!
Saif · Member since
[QUOTE]
[b]Yara wrote: [/b]
Then came the guy saying that Led stinks, and I showed him, who's a Freddie lover, that Freddie not only loved Led Zeppelin, but had Robert Plant as one of his favorite singers - and he said so at least in two occasions: 1975 and 1977 - that is, encompassing both SHA the album, which Brian thinks is quite "dirty" and influenced by Led, by the way, and Sheer Heart Attack the song, [b]where I think Freddie drew heavily, apart from the chorus, on Plant's bluesy, hard rock but at the same time more glam, grooved and delicate style.[/b]
[/QUOTE]
I thought [b]Roger[/b] sang "Sheer Heart Attack"?
Yara · Member since
In the demo version, yes. It was meant for him to sing, but they share duties in the final version. Freddie ended up taking the largest chunk of it and gave it a distinctive mark, on which I commented above. The chorus, I think, is a different beast: it's a vocal harmony which puts forward the Queen trademark and the other elements go to the background. It's a great combination.
Brian May said once:
"Well, it's mixture - a compromise, as often happened in these cases.
Roger had done a demo, and our usual practice was to use the demo's as a bed for the final track. Roger had sung it all, [b]but the decision was made to get Freddie to the job for the record[/b]. Roger was keen that Freddie sing it pretty much like the demo to retain the (kind of Punkspoof?) atmosphere. Freddie didn't find it that easy [b]since it wasn't his natural style.[/b]
[b]But it's Freddie you hear doing the verses - double tracked[/b]."
And that's my point, but it could be developed in another thread...I guess it's better. I think Freddie didn't go well with Roger's take and added a Robert Plant mark there - It's my opinion. Brian made other remarks which lead me to believe it's not an absurd opinion, but it is, of course, my own personal opinion.
Best regards,
Yara
*goodco* · Member since
Yara, thanks for the Octavarium link and your thoughtful posts..........
btw, when trying to hear BoRhap in the title track, I'd heard the 'now I've gone and thrown it all away' ......piano/guitar lick over and over and over again (includes the flute/synth part just before the lyrics begin as well).
Maybe I should add that comment to the site.
doxonrox · Member since
[QUOTE]
[b]Yara wrote: [/b]
In the demo version, yes. It was meant for him to sing, but they share duties in the final version. Freddie ended up taking the largest chunk of it and gave it a distinctive mark, on which I commented above. The chorus, I think, is a different beast: it's a vocal harmony which puts forward the Queen trademark and the other elements go to the background. It's a great combination.
Brian May said once:
"Well, it's mixture - a compromise, as often happened in these cases.
Roger had done a demo, and our usual practice was to use the demo's as a bed for the final track. Roger had sung it all, [b]but the decision was made to get Freddie to the job for the record[/b]. Roger was keen that Freddie sing it pretty much like the demo to retain the (kind of Punkspoof?) atmosphere. Freddie didn't find it that easy [b]since it wasn't his natural style.[/b]
[b]But it's Freddie you hear doing the verses - double tracked[/b]."
And that's my point, but it could be developed in another thread...I guess it's better. I think Freddie didn't go well with Roger's take and added a Robert Plant mark there - It's my opinion. Brian made other remarks which lead me to believe it's not an absurd opinion, but it is, of course, my own personal opinion.
Best regards,
Yara
[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I've read that multiple times. But I don't buy it. I know Roger's voice when I hear it. Freddie and Rog mixed - maybe. But definitely not Freddie alone. It's pretty obvious.
Saif · Member since
[QUOTE]
[b]*goodco* wrote: [/b]
Yara, thanks for the Octavarium link and your thoughtful posts..........
btw, when trying to hear BoRhap in the title track, I'd heard the 'now I've gone and thrown it all away' ......piano/guitar lick over and over and over again (includes the flute/synth part just before the lyrics begin as well).
Maybe I should add that comment to the site.[/QUOTE]
Actually it's only the piano section just before "Mama, just killed a man..." that's present...
Anyway, BUMP!
I now completely subscribe to Sir GH's theory about the "nicking" being the result of a simple arpeggio... because I've found the same "riff" in a song by another progressive metal band I love: Symphony X!
Their song "Through the Looking Glass" starts with the "Father to Son" riff...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TKwoHVKUiM
One more thing, the bass sounds like it's hesitating to play the "Another One Bites The Dust" bassline... Great song though...
But I wouldn't be surprised if Dream Theater and Symphony X actually DID "borrow" it directly because Dream Theater are big Queen fans(all of them) while Symphony X are Queen wannabes(not in a bad way).
thomasquinn 32989 · Member since
[QUOTE]
[b]Sir GH wrote: [/b]
Well, it's all about how you define a rip-off...
Theoretically-speaking, it's a D sus arpeggio played repeatedly. Queen probably weren't the first to think about that, either.
As Brian May recently said, one can't create music from a vacuum. You're bound to be influenced by things around you. It may be the same notes, but Dream Theater do something completely different with them.
Although Dream Theater often wear their influences on their sleeve, Images And Words is a superb album - one of the best rock albums ever, as far as I'm concerned. It's the one record they did that is completely focused on the songwriting.
To me, this thread just sounds like yet another case of Queen fans somehow trying to justify the ever-growing view that Queen were the first band to come up with countless musical ideas and are somehow not allowed to influence others, discrediting other artists when they do. Until marketing became a big tool for music in the 50s and copyright laws came to be, it was seen as the greatest possible compliment and honour when someone quoted your song in their own.
History and details aside, really, who cares if a few notes are the same as a Queen song? Queen were great, as are other bands. Peace, love, and enjoy the music.
[/QUOTE]
Just entered this discussion, and this post by Bob says it all.
A riff by itself is just a series of intervals. No one 'owns' those. It's the context in which it is used that makes it either a new or a 'stolen' passage.
Treasure Moment · Member since
Valensia tried to copy the bohemian rhapsody formula exactly.
thomasquinn 32989 · Member since
You tried to copy every synthetic, unimaginative '80s rip-off band. Doubly ironic.
Treasure Moment · Member since
[QUOTE]
[b]ThomasQuinn wrote: [/b]
You tried to copy every synthetic, unimaginative '80s rip-off band. Doubly ironic.
[/QUOTE]
We dont copy anything, what we do however is to create music better than anything 50 mainstream bands could do put together.
john bodega · Member since
[QUOTE]
[b]Treasure Moment wrote:[/b]
We dont copy anything, what we do however is to create music better than anything 50 mainstream bands could do put together.
[/QUOTE]
And you do it without a permanent line-up. That IS impressive!
When are you going to upload it?
Treasure Moment · Member since
[QUOTE]
[b]Zebonka12 wrote: [/b]
[QUOTE]
[b]Treasure Moment wrote:[/b]
We dont copy anything, what we do however is to create music better than anything 50 mainstream bands could do put together.
[/QUOTE]
And you do it without a permanent line-up. That IS impressive!
When are you going to upload it?
[/QUOTE]
the songs on the myspace is already better than all the mainstream bands music put together.
Winter Land Man · Member since
[QUOTE]
[b]doxonrox wrote: [/b]
[QUOTE]
[b]Yara wrote: [/b]
In the demo version, yes. It was meant for him to sing, but they share duties in the final version. Freddie ended up taking the largest chunk of it and gave it a distinctive mark, on which I commented above. The chorus, I think, is a different beast: it's a vocal harmony which puts forward the Queen trademark and the other elements go to the background. It's a great combination.
Brian May said once:
"Well, it's mixture - a compromise, as often happened in these cases.
Roger had done a demo, and our usual practice was to use the demo's as a bed for the final track. Roger had sung it all, [b]but the decision was made to get Freddie to the job for the record[/b]. Roger was keen that Freddie sing it pretty much like the demo to retain the (kind of Punkspoof?) atmosphere. Freddie didn't find it that easy [b]since it wasn't his natural style.[/b]
[b]But it's Freddie you hear doing the verses - double tracked[/b]."
And that's my point, but it could be developed in another thread...I guess it's better. I think Freddie didn't go well with Roger's take and added a Robert Plant mark there - It's my opinion. Brian made other remarks which lead me to believe it's not an absurd opinion, but it is, of course, my own personal opinion.
Best regards,
Yara
[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I've read that multiple times. But I don't buy it. I know Roger's voice when I hear it. Freddie and Rog mixed - maybe. But definitely not Freddie alone. It's pretty obvious.
[/QUOTE]
I've read things like that many times, how can someone be so deaf to not hear Freddie singing on 'Sheer Heart Attack'???
The Real Wizard · Member since
[QUOTE]
[b]Treasure Moment wrote: [/b]
the songs on the myspace is already better than all the mainstream bands music put together.
[/QUOTE]
Then why don't you put together a PK and send it to the major labels and get yourself a record deal? The radio and shops aren't going to take the songs off your myspace page.
Treasure Moment · Member since
[QUOTE]
[b]Sir GH wrote: [/b]
[QUOTE]
[b]Treasure Moment wrote: [/b]
the songs on the myspace is already better than all the mainstream bands music put together.
[/QUOTE]
Then why don't you put together a PK and send it to the major labels and get yourself a record deal? The radio and shops aren't going to take the songs off your myspace page.
[/QUOTE]
we will contact labels soon, we are going to film a video for that swedish song soon.
