Fair enough.
Then why don't you ask him if it was in fact the rhythm guitar he's referring to?
The Real Wizard
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Sebastian
I already did ;)
I just hope he answers - I didn't mention any flowers so my chances are slim.
I just hope he answers - I didn't mention any flowers so my chances are slim.
Yara
Very informative thread and discussions. I have no knowledge at all to comment on what's been posted, but I'm sure learning quite a lot.
Keep rocking, guys!
It's really great.
I wish you the best and take care.
Keep rocking, guys!
It's really great.
I wish you the best and take care.
teleman
Togg
[QUOTE]
[b]Sebastian wrote: [/b]
I am a guitarist, but I have never tried to achieve that tone. There would be no sense in lying about it.
Brian's sound is 99% in his hands, but that 1% left would still be noticeable (however briefly) on a solo like that (and that's what happens with [i]Mother Love[/i], for instance, or [i]Nothin' But Blue[/i]). That [i]Flash Reprise [/i]solo lacks that 1%, while the rhythm guitar on [i]The Hero[/i] (and [i]Battle Theme[/i], which is probably the same BT anyway) doesn't.
I'm not saying it's [b]impossible[/b] to sound like the RS using a different guitar and amp, and I'm not saying Bri [b]never [/b]did it. I'm positive, though, that if Brian ever played a melodic solo like that using a different guitar, it was not there. It's much more possible that he simply misremembered, and [i]The Hero[/i] (rhythm guitar) was the one he'd done with different gear.
[/QUOTE]
Arrrh Nothing but Blue.... I knew there was another one
Also Runaway where he used a Strat!
[b]Sebastian wrote: [/b]
I am a guitarist, but I have never tried to achieve that tone. There would be no sense in lying about it.
Brian's sound is 99% in his hands, but that 1% left would still be noticeable (however briefly) on a solo like that (and that's what happens with [i]Mother Love[/i], for instance, or [i]Nothin' But Blue[/i]). That [i]Flash Reprise [/i]solo lacks that 1%, while the rhythm guitar on [i]The Hero[/i] (and [i]Battle Theme[/i], which is probably the same BT anyway) doesn't.
I'm not saying it's [b]impossible[/b] to sound like the RS using a different guitar and amp, and I'm not saying Bri [b]never [/b]did it. I'm positive, though, that if Brian ever played a melodic solo like that using a different guitar, it was not there. It's much more possible that he simply misremembered, and [i]The Hero[/i] (rhythm guitar) was the one he'd done with different gear.
[/QUOTE]
Arrrh Nothing but Blue.... I knew there was another one
Also Runaway where he used a Strat!
Holly2003
That little Flash reprise (not part of The Hero as Sebastian correctly points out), along with the solos from Scandal and Those Were the Days of Our Lives, are imo Brian's most melodic solos. They are short but absolutely filled with emotion. That's one of the things that distinguishes Brian from many speed merchants.
Sebastian
I'm not too fond of the [i]Scandal[/i] solo, I think it could've been better, especially for the era. Not the notes, but the way he played it - my favourite solo from Brian in Queen is [i]Days of Our Lives[/i] followed by [i]Who Wants to Live Forever[/i].
kansas666
Well, I would think any time he played an accoustic guitar. 39 anyone?
Sebastian
Of course we're referring about electric guitars different to the Red Special.
The famous Gibson Chet Atkins CE looks and sounds like an acoustic guitar but it's actually electric (which is what the 'E' in 'CE' stands for), so we can add more songs to the list: [i]Is this the World [/i](live), [i]Rock 'n' Roll Medley[/i] (Magic Tour), [i]I Want It All, Hang On In There, Innuendo[/i].
The famous Gibson Chet Atkins CE looks and sounds like an acoustic guitar but it's actually electric (which is what the 'E' in 'CE' stands for), so we can add more songs to the list: [i]Is this the World [/i](live), [i]Rock 'n' Roll Medley[/i] (Magic Tour), [i]I Want It All, Hang On In There, Innuendo[/i].
ludwigs
This whole 'I know what was used' is quite an amusing feature...... :)
Unless we were there then surely the 'nailed' facts are just subjective? I am aware that BM does tend to have lapses of memory. (An example being that he states that his trem-springs were from a 1926 inner-valve Panther motorbike. Hmmm....now contact with the Panther club says that the springs were a typical run from '20's thru to 50's -60's set. I have those and they are nothing like the ones in the Old Lady.) Wrong recollection Mr BM!!
Surely time does cloud facts etc but I do find it a little odd how we here can 'state' a certain guitar,booster,amp etc from the album track? I am very familiar with differing guitars etc etc.....
Sure, we can 'guess' but unless we are really really au-fait with the whole BM style then it is all just guess-work? Mic placement can really have a massive effect to the sound,as can speakers, rooms,player etc etc etc....
I check these forums occasionally and it does make me laff a lot. Unless we have RTB and Mack....or Justin etc then it surely has to be 'speculation'????
I do feel that there is a 'I know more than you coz I am articulate and intelligent' mentality. It does make me less inclined to view......although, I do appreciate and acknowledge the massive contribution and very in-depth analysis' that you do include.
It just is a little, [b] 'I am the Knowledge'[/b]................. yawn.
State an opinion but don't TELL us what is what?
Unless we were there then surely the 'nailed' facts are just subjective? I am aware that BM does tend to have lapses of memory. (An example being that he states that his trem-springs were from a 1926 inner-valve Panther motorbike. Hmmm....now contact with the Panther club says that the springs were a typical run from '20's thru to 50's -60's set. I have those and they are nothing like the ones in the Old Lady.) Wrong recollection Mr BM!!
Surely time does cloud facts etc but I do find it a little odd how we here can 'state' a certain guitar,booster,amp etc from the album track? I am very familiar with differing guitars etc etc.....
Sure, we can 'guess' but unless we are really really au-fait with the whole BM style then it is all just guess-work? Mic placement can really have a massive effect to the sound,as can speakers, rooms,player etc etc etc....
I check these forums occasionally and it does make me laff a lot. Unless we have RTB and Mack....or Justin etc then it surely has to be 'speculation'????
I do feel that there is a 'I know more than you coz I am articulate and intelligent' mentality. It does make me less inclined to view......although, I do appreciate and acknowledge the massive contribution and very in-depth analysis' that you do include.
It just is a little, [b] 'I am the Knowledge'[/b]................. yawn.
State an opinion but don't TELL us what is what?
Sebastian
I [i]guess[/i] your message was directed to me (and of course I may be wrong about that), this is my reply:
You can't possibly know if I'm here to 'tell' other people how things are. Unless you know me on a personal level (which is something only my daughter, my girlfriend, my siblings and my close mates do, and you're none of them), you can only [i]speculate[/i] or [i]guess[/i] what I think.
If my posts make you yawn, then you can simply skip them. This is a free forum and as such, I can post five hundred messages if I feel like it. And in absolutely NONE of them, I've EVER claimed to be MORE intelligent than ANYBODY, or OWNER OF THE TRUTH, whatsoever.
According to your logic, we can't possibly know if Freddie sang [i]Bohemian Rhapsody[/i]: after all, it could be Brian emulating his voice (and keep in mind there's no single interview where May states he can't do a Freddie voice, and even if there were, for all we know it could be another case of mistaken memory). So, we can only [i]guess[/i] Freddie sang it, based on the multiple data we've got to back it up (liner notes, the sound of the voice, the 200+ recordings we can compare it to, live versions, etc).
There's indeed an ENORMOUS difference between the sort of [i]guesswork[/i] one makes when [i]assuming[/i] Roger sang the high notes on [i]Lap of the Gods[/i], and the sort of [i]guesswork[/i] one makes when [i]assuming[/i] Roger wrote [i]Innuendo[/i] just because it's got a lot of percussion. Likewise, one thing is to [i]guess[/i] Freddie wrote [i]Was It All Worth It[/i] because of the many big, medium and subtle details pointing to it, and another thing is to [i]guess[/i] Freddie wrote lyrics to [i]The Hitman[/i] just because they contain the word 'school'.
In all of those cases, there's a potential margin of error, but it's considerably smaller in some than others. NOT ALL [i]GUESSWORK[/i] BELONGS TO THE SAME CATEGORY.
The mic(s) used, the way they're placed, the cables they plug them with, the console make and model, the engineer, the mix, etc... all of that does have an effect on the sound. BUT, you can tell Freddie sings [i]Night Comes Down, Killer Queen, Sheer Heart Attack, It's A Beautiful Day, Let Me Live, The Fallen Priest [/i]and [i]Delilah[/i], all of which has a different equipment, a different period, a different technique, and often different producers, engineers, mics, cables, etc.
Likewise, it IS possible to tell (with close to zero margin of error) whether certain instrument is being used on certain part of certain song, even with all those variables. And by the way, having Mack, Roy or Justin isn't error-proof either: they could misremember just like Brian did.
Can it be established which exact brand of guitar and which exact brand of amp was used for the rhythm guitar in [i]The Hero[/i]? Yes
Are there people who can do it? Yes
Am I one of them? No
Can it be established if the [i]Flash [/i]solo was made on the Red Special with the Vox AC30? Yes
Are there people who can tell it and be positive about it? Yes
Am I one of those? Yes
Do I possess absolute knowledge? No
Do I have a lot of knowledge? Maybe yes, maybe not - you'd have to define 'a lot of'.
Do I have very little knowledge? Maybe yes, maybe not - you'd have to define 'very little'
Do I have enough knowledge to be positive that the [i]Flash[/i] solo is on the RS? Yes
Do I have enough knowledge to make a serious analysis on certain (not many, not all, but certain) music-related subjects and write good (not 'the best', not 'feel blessed to read them', but 'good' nonetheless) contributions to this forum? Yes
I write in this thread (and some others) because I find them interesting, and because I like the topics. If I'm positive about something, I don't hesitate to establish it, but it doesn't mean AT ALL that I'm IMPOSING my opinion or having a holier than thou attitude.
When a person merely enters this forum to bring personal attacks against me or anybody else, THAT is having a holier than thou attitude. When a person comes here to [i]guess[/i] my attitudes and [i]assume[/i] their [i]guesses[/i] are [i]right[/i], THAT'S a [i]holier than thou[/i] behaviour.
If somebody states their opinions (no matter how strongly) without imposing it, they're just contributing to what is indeed a very interesting on-line community. If somebody enters here just to criticise me and act as if they can see through me, THAT'S indeed an [b]'I am the knowledge' [/b]claim - hence becoming the same thing they're judging to begin with. And that's their problem, not mine.
And at the end of the day, most (99%) of Brian's statements about what songs he played on which equipment, are right. Amongst the 1% which are wrong we can find this one about [i]The Hero[/i].
You can't possibly know if I'm here to 'tell' other people how things are. Unless you know me on a personal level (which is something only my daughter, my girlfriend, my siblings and my close mates do, and you're none of them), you can only [i]speculate[/i] or [i]guess[/i] what I think.
If my posts make you yawn, then you can simply skip them. This is a free forum and as such, I can post five hundred messages if I feel like it. And in absolutely NONE of them, I've EVER claimed to be MORE intelligent than ANYBODY, or OWNER OF THE TRUTH, whatsoever.
According to your logic, we can't possibly know if Freddie sang [i]Bohemian Rhapsody[/i]: after all, it could be Brian emulating his voice (and keep in mind there's no single interview where May states he can't do a Freddie voice, and even if there were, for all we know it could be another case of mistaken memory). So, we can only [i]guess[/i] Freddie sang it, based on the multiple data we've got to back it up (liner notes, the sound of the voice, the 200+ recordings we can compare it to, live versions, etc).
There's indeed an ENORMOUS difference between the sort of [i]guesswork[/i] one makes when [i]assuming[/i] Roger sang the high notes on [i]Lap of the Gods[/i], and the sort of [i]guesswork[/i] one makes when [i]assuming[/i] Roger wrote [i]Innuendo[/i] just because it's got a lot of percussion. Likewise, one thing is to [i]guess[/i] Freddie wrote [i]Was It All Worth It[/i] because of the many big, medium and subtle details pointing to it, and another thing is to [i]guess[/i] Freddie wrote lyrics to [i]The Hitman[/i] just because they contain the word 'school'.
In all of those cases, there's a potential margin of error, but it's considerably smaller in some than others. NOT ALL [i]GUESSWORK[/i] BELONGS TO THE SAME CATEGORY.
The mic(s) used, the way they're placed, the cables they plug them with, the console make and model, the engineer, the mix, etc... all of that does have an effect on the sound. BUT, you can tell Freddie sings [i]Night Comes Down, Killer Queen, Sheer Heart Attack, It's A Beautiful Day, Let Me Live, The Fallen Priest [/i]and [i]Delilah[/i], all of which has a different equipment, a different period, a different technique, and often different producers, engineers, mics, cables, etc.
Likewise, it IS possible to tell (with close to zero margin of error) whether certain instrument is being used on certain part of certain song, even with all those variables. And by the way, having Mack, Roy or Justin isn't error-proof either: they could misremember just like Brian did.
Can it be established which exact brand of guitar and which exact brand of amp was used for the rhythm guitar in [i]The Hero[/i]? Yes
Are there people who can do it? Yes
Am I one of them? No
Can it be established if the [i]Flash [/i]solo was made on the Red Special with the Vox AC30? Yes
Are there people who can tell it and be positive about it? Yes
Am I one of those? Yes
Do I possess absolute knowledge? No
Do I have a lot of knowledge? Maybe yes, maybe not - you'd have to define 'a lot of'.
Do I have very little knowledge? Maybe yes, maybe not - you'd have to define 'very little'
Do I have enough knowledge to be positive that the [i]Flash[/i] solo is on the RS? Yes
Do I have enough knowledge to make a serious analysis on certain (not many, not all, but certain) music-related subjects and write good (not 'the best', not 'feel blessed to read them', but 'good' nonetheless) contributions to this forum? Yes
I write in this thread (and some others) because I find them interesting, and because I like the topics. If I'm positive about something, I don't hesitate to establish it, but it doesn't mean AT ALL that I'm IMPOSING my opinion or having a holier than thou attitude.
When a person merely enters this forum to bring personal attacks against me or anybody else, THAT is having a holier than thou attitude. When a person comes here to [i]guess[/i] my attitudes and [i]assume[/i] their [i]guesses[/i] are [i]right[/i], THAT'S a [i]holier than thou[/i] behaviour.
If somebody states their opinions (no matter how strongly) without imposing it, they're just contributing to what is indeed a very interesting on-line community. If somebody enters here just to criticise me and act as if they can see through me, THAT'S indeed an [b]'I am the knowledge' [/b]claim - hence becoming the same thing they're judging to begin with. And that's their problem, not mine.
And at the end of the day, most (99%) of Brian's statements about what songs he played on which equipment, are right. Amongst the 1% which are wrong we can find this one about [i]The Hero[/i].
The Real Wizard
[QUOTE]
[b]Sebastian wrote: [/b]
Likewise, it IS possible to tell (with close to zero margin of error) whether certain instrument is being used on certain part of certain song, even with all those variables.
[/QUOTE]
And I still disagree. Vocals are one thing, but instruments are a whole other beast. It is not impossible to achieve the Red Special's tone with another setup.
You are no doubt a very musically intelligent guy, but there's a lot more of the tone in that little treble booster than you may think.
[b]Sebastian wrote: [/b]
Likewise, it IS possible to tell (with close to zero margin of error) whether certain instrument is being used on certain part of certain song, even with all those variables.
[/QUOTE]
And I still disagree. Vocals are one thing, but instruments are a whole other beast. It is not impossible to achieve the Red Special's tone with another setup.
You are no doubt a very musically intelligent guy, but there's a lot more of the tone in that little treble booster than you may think.
Sebastian
Bob:
And I agree to disagree. And that's what makes this forum so interesting. Though many people have narrow-minded 'I'm right so fuck it' rows, there are others who can maintain a more respectful attitude and stay calm enough. And even in the cases I disagree with you (like this one), I still enjoy your insights and learn a lot from them. As long as you and others remain here, I'll always be happy to post and read.
To me, it's not about being right or wrong, let alone about proving to be right or wrong: it's about sharing, learning, thinking, growing.
But, for the sake of discussion, I may as well add that for me voices and instruments are not that different: a voice is also an instrument, and every instrument has a voice. Even if (obviously) most of May's sound comes from him and not the guitar, there's still a reason why he was keen on using the Old Lady most of the time. It is not impossible to achieve that tone, but I still maintain that if May ever did that, it was on very few occasions, and [i]Flash[/i] wasn't one of them.
And I agree to disagree. And that's what makes this forum so interesting. Though many people have narrow-minded 'I'm right so fuck it' rows, there are others who can maintain a more respectful attitude and stay calm enough. And even in the cases I disagree with you (like this one), I still enjoy your insights and learn a lot from them. As long as you and others remain here, I'll always be happy to post and read.
To me, it's not about being right or wrong, let alone about proving to be right or wrong: it's about sharing, learning, thinking, growing.
But, for the sake of discussion, I may as well add that for me voices and instruments are not that different: a voice is also an instrument, and every instrument has a voice. Even if (obviously) most of May's sound comes from him and not the guitar, there's still a reason why he was keen on using the Old Lady most of the time. It is not impossible to achieve that tone, but I still maintain that if May ever did that, it was on very few occasions, and [i]Flash[/i] wasn't one of them.
The Real Wizard
[QUOTE]
[b]Sebastian wrote: [/b]
And I agree to disagree. And that's what makes this forum so interesting. Though many people have narrow-minded 'I'm right so fuck it' rows, there are others who can maintain a more respectful attitude and stay calm enough. And even in the cases I disagree with you (like this one), I still enjoy your insights and learn a lot from them. As long as you and others remain here, I'll always be happy to post and read.
To me, it's not about being right or wrong, let alone about proving to be right or wrong: it's about sharing, learning, thinking, growing.
[/QUOTE]
Amen. Same goes out to you.
[b]Sebastian wrote: [/b]
And I agree to disagree. And that's what makes this forum so interesting. Though many people have narrow-minded 'I'm right so fuck it' rows, there are others who can maintain a more respectful attitude and stay calm enough. And even in the cases I disagree with you (like this one), I still enjoy your insights and learn a lot from them. As long as you and others remain here, I'll always be happy to post and read.
To me, it's not about being right or wrong, let alone about proving to be right or wrong: it's about sharing, learning, thinking, growing.
[/QUOTE]
Amen. Same goes out to you.
john bodega
I'd love to weigh in on this but I'm still not entirely clear on what part of the recording is being debated on ...
[/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]Listening to totally dry recordings of the Red Special's sound (no effects, no amps, no thing) you do get a feel for the peculiar sound it makes. A lot of Brian's 'sound' though had to do with the treble booster and clever mic positions.[/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]You can get a big, Queen sound using a different guitar, but there are certain voicings of that instrument that are unique enough that you won't get them on a common instrument like a Strat or a Les Paul. It really comes down to which 'sound' is being referred to, because Brian had a few .... I'd like to know exactly what part of The Hero is being discussed, specifically.[/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]Listening to totally dry recordings of the Red Special's sound (no effects, no amps, no thing) you do get a feel for the peculiar sound it makes. A lot of Brian's 'sound' though had to do with the treble booster and clever mic positions.[/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]You can get a big, Queen sound using a different guitar, but there are certain voicings of that instrument that are unique enough that you won't get them on a common instrument like a Strat or a Les Paul. It really comes down to which 'sound' is being referred to, because Brian had a few .... I'd like to know exactly what part of The Hero is being discussed, specifically.[/QUOTE]