The Miracle - 20 years now

It's not only about hating me or having a good memory, it's about:

- Answering a question that was directed to me, as if I couldn't write by myself or as if he needs to keep track of what other people say to me (either case: stalking).
- Meddling in a respectful conversation with a disrespectful comment. Would he make the 'totally ridiculous' remark if another person had said the [i]NOBY[/i] thing?
- Bringing up something I wrote over a year ago.
- Changing the wording and, in the process, the whole meaning of it.

And by the way, now I wish I'd written 'the best Queen song although it wasn't Queen', because it'd have been a bit witty, as many paradoxes are. For instance:

- An English horn is neither English nor a horn
- The best Portuguese footballer of all time (IMO) wasn't Portuguese
- Freddie Mercury, one of the greatest British musicians of the last century, wasn't English
- Led Zeppelin's most easily recognisable song wasn't issued as single (at least not originally)
- The guitar used for the [i]Innuendo[/i] solo looks and sounds like an acoustic but is electric
- Freddie's most poignant farewell songs ([i]Days of Our Lives[/i] and [i]The Show Must Go On[/i]) weren't written by him
- Rowan Atkinson's greatest skill (IMO) is his voice, yet he's best-known outside the UK for an almost mute character

Back to topic, I do think 'Made in Heaven' versions outdo the original ones in most cases (not Too Much Love, but it's a matter of taste, I'm more classical-oriented so I'm obviously more fond of the acoustic solo), but it's not a matter of 'Fred vs the others', it's a matter of trends ('Mr Bad Guy' was made in the disco era, 'MIH' was made in the 'adult-contemporary' era), production (Mack vs David Richards), team-work ('thanks to Roger, John and Brian for staying out of it' or something like that, vs the whole 'made in heaven' idea), technology, experience, money (they all had home studios by then, and each could work on his part separately without the others harassing him or causing conflict), time-span ('Bad Guy' was made by one bloke in the few spare days he had from touring and recording with Queen, 'MIH' was made by three people in a 4 year period where both their concerts and recordings were more occasional), etc. It's not something valid (IMO) to put down Freddie (and I'm not insinuating any of you is 'putting down' Freddie, BTW).

It's like assuming [i]Prophet's Song [/i]is by Freddie and/or John because there's no song like it on TCR (AFAIK).

Sebastian vs. Pim aside, Pim, I'd like you to answer a question.  one of the things I find frustrating about QZ is that threads die because of ignorance relating to the subject.  It's easier to say "Brian and Roger deserve to call it Queen so shut up", then to debate the merits of an issue.  So, with that as a starting point, how would you feel if the Queen catalogue was entirely reworked, depending on the whims of whichever surviving member and how they felt the song should sound.  If John Deacon believed White Queen should be funkified with lots of bass, would it be okay?  And Ray Gaga, who comes in here form time to time yelling about whatever he wants to yell about without offering sensible analysis, great, you want Adam Lambert and anyone who doesn't is a dinosaur.  That's fine.  Why do you think it's good?  Do you believe in Queen as a brand, or a musical act?  Should the Beatles reform with Justin Timberlake and Kylie Minogue replacing Lennon and Harrison?  Would that be blasphemy?  Well, to me Adam Lambert, 1/1000th of the bona fides that Paul Rodgers (who was nothing like a Queen singer) is blasphemous.  Please explain what he would bring to the mix (talent and charisma, probably, writing, musicianship, stage presence comparable to Freddie, highly unlikely).   if Brian died and John Friuscante from the Red Hot Chili Peppers took over guitar duties is it still Queen.  Or the guy from Jesus and Mary Chanin who played an out of tune guitar and was nonsensical as a musician.  Is that still Queen?  I'd like answers because it's easy to call someone out, but let's have an honest discussion about stuff.

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[b]Pim Derks wrote: [/b]

[QUOTE] But the MIH version changed the tone, which I find dishonest.  It's not the song the author wanted (nor was IWBTLY), it's a patchwork that was meant to make songs, finished or otherwise, solo or discarded, sound like a Queen album.  To do so without the input of arguably the driving creative force made it a cynical, manipulative album for me.  Some people love it though, musically I don't, conceptually I think it's dishonest.
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The tracks Made In Heaven and I Was Born To Love You show exactly why Freddie was NOT Queen and people should stop their wining about Freddie being the almighty genius in the band. While the Freddie versions are crappy 80's tunes which were dated the day after they were released, the 1995 Queen versions are among the best tracks in their catalogue and still kick ass to this day - almost 14 years later.

Patchwork or not, Made In Heaven has always been one of my favourite Queen-albums. Together with Innuendo the only post-Game output which is essential listening IMO.
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lol, Another Jealous roger fan.  Freddie and brian were the genious of queen. Get over it!...Mr. bad guy was a solo album, and not meant to be a masterpiece rock album like queen would make., that's what a solo album suppose to be, trying something different, lol....   Barcelona was indeed genious, and was better than most queen albums IMO.

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[b]mike hunt wrote:[/b]


lol, Another Jealous roger fan.  Freddie and brian were the genious of queen. Get over it!...Mr. bad guy was a solo album, and not meant to be a masterpiece rock album like queen would make., that's what a solo album suppose to be, trying something different, lol....   Barcelona was indeed genious, and was better than most queen albums IMO. 


[/QUOTE]
Another Roger-fan my ass. If Freddie wanted to do something not-Queen like with his solo-career, why did he instruct the guitarplayer on She Blows Hot and Cold to sound like Brian May, why did he re-record TMBTLTT which was originally a Queen-song, why did he release Love Kills as a solo-track when it originally was a Queen song (and still features Brian / Roger I believe?), Man Made Paradise was also a Queen-track etc. Brian also commented on this last year or so in his soapbox. 

If I'm not mistaken 1978-1984 were the 'toughest' years in the band. I wouldn't be suprised if Mr Bad Guy wouldn't have happened at all if they got along better during this era - and so most of the songs on Mr Bad Guy might've ended up on a Queen-album anyway.

And Sebastian - nothing to do with cyberstalking. I just have a very good memory for things like that.

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[b]Pim Derks wrote: [/b]

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[b]mike hunt wrote:[/b]



lol, Another Jealous roger fan.  Freddie and brian were the genious of queen. Get over it!...Mr. bad guy was a solo album, and not meant to be a masterpiece rock album like queen would make., that's what a solo album suppose to be, trying something different, lol....   Barcelona was indeed genious, and was better than most queen albums IMO. 



[/QUOTE]
Another Roger-fan my ass. If Freddie wanted to do something not-Queen like with his solo-career, why did he instruct the guitarplayer on She Blows Hot and Cold to sound like Brian May, why did he re-record TMBTLTT which was originally a Queen-song, why did he release Love Kills as a solo-track when it originally was a Queen song (and still features Brian / Roger I believe?), Man Made Paradise was also a Queen-track etc. Brian also commented on this last year or so in his soapbox. 

If I'm not mistaken 1978-1984 were the 'toughest' years in the band. I wouldn't be suprised if Mr Bad Guy wouldn't have happened at all if they got along better during this era - and so most of the songs on Mr Bad Guy might've ended up on a Queen-album anyway.

And Sebastian - nothing to do with cyberstalking. I just have a very good memory for things like that.[/QUOTE]
what the hell are you talking about?...The bottom line is roger is forgettable, no one even mentions the man as one of the top drummers of his time. Only little wannabe roger fanatics like you mention him.

Asking one guitarist to emulate Brian's style on one solo on one song (that wasn't even included on the album at the end of the day) proves absolutely nothing. Back to the [i]Prophet's Song[/i] point... As for cyber-stalking, I keep my position: one thing's to have 'good memory' (which is funny because you didn't even remember the exact quote, but were ready to answer a question directed to me, why do you care anyway?), and another is to behave that way. AFAIK, I've never done things like that with you or things you've written, so I'd appreciate if you return the favour.

What I find strange about 'The Miracle' (since we were sidetracked enough), is that they had (roughly) 30 songs to choose from, which more or less points at none of the ten chosen ones being a 'filler', yet the final setlist was disappointing to say the least. They had some nice tunes like [i]Hang On In There [/i]and[i] My Life Has Been Saved...[/i] neither of which was a masterpiece but both of which were a hell of a lot better than [i]Party[/i], [i]Khashoggi's Ship, Rain Must Fall[/i] and[i] My Baby Does Me[/i] combined (IMO).

Of course, there could be a lot of reasons behind that, and there's nothing written on stone when it comes to personal tastes or choices, yet it's a bit odd that they picked those four songs which, from virtually any perspective, can't hold a candle to the rest of the album. I mean, [i]Sweet Lady[/i] is rarely a favourite, but it's still got loads of great details about it: great harmonies, great drumming, great guitar playing... but 'The Miracle' has several tracks which ten years prior would'nt have been even considered for release. 30 songs, and those were the best 10? No way!

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[b]August R. wrote: [/b]



Just realised it's been 20 years since The Miracle album was released. This also marks my 20years of being a Queen fan. I Want It All was the first Queen song I fell in love with all those years ago and The Miracle was my soundtrack album of the summer '89. Good memories!!! This album will always have a special place in my heart.

Anyway, what are yor thoughts on The Miracle? Has it aged well? You still listen to it? Is it rubbish? Or a gem? What are your favourite songs from the album?

I still like this album a lot, and I think it's got some great songs on it. My favourites being The Miracle, I Want It All, Breakthru, Scandal and Was It All Worth It. Of course there are some weak moments as well (like Party and Rain Must Fall) but all in all, I think it's one their better albums from the 80's. The decision to credit everything for Queen obviously paid off. But I just can't help thinking that the album could have been even better if they had chosen different songs on it. B-sides like Hang On In There and Hijack My Heart would have made the album more interesting, plus it would have been great to hear Roger singing lead on a Queen album once again. Also, they should have released TMLWKY on the album 'cos the one thing this album lacks is a haunting piano ballad.

Your comments, please...

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Hi, August R.

How are you doing? I hope you have a good week.

Hm. I don't share your view, I guess. "The Miracle" is unfortunately the Queen album I've found myself coming back to less often - even though the album pleases me and I'd not think of it as rubbish by any means, I listen to it quite rarely, I must say. Even "I want it all" sounds too conventional and cliched for me to really dig it. I can only speak for myself, though. This is, needless to say, only my very personal taste. 

I find it great that there are people who enjoy the album and I found your comments quite interesting as well as the thread as a whole.
 
Thanks for the great thread!
 
Take care and have a nice week!

Yara

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[b]Sebastian wrote: [/b]

What I find strange about 'The Miracle' (since we were sidetracked enough), is that they had (roughly) 30 songs to choose from, which more or less points at none of the ten chosen ones being a 'filler', yet the final setlist was disappointing to say the least. They had some nice tunes like [i]Hang On In There [/i]and[i] My Life Has Been Saved...[/i] neither of which was a masterpiece but both of which were a hell of a lot better than [i]Party[/i], [i]Khashoggi's Ship, Rain Must Fall[/i] and[i] My Baby Does Me[/i] combined (IMO).

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I think lots of tracks were left of because the original plan (I think) was to release a new album "Another Miracle" in late 1989/early 1990 with the leftover tracks and the b-sides. Ofcourse in true Queen Productions-fashion that got cancelled.

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[b]August R. wrote: [/b]

Just realised it's been 20 years since The Miracle album was released. This also marks my 20years of being a Queen fan. I Want It All was the first Queen song I fell in love with all those years ago and The Miracle was my soundtrack album of the summer '89. Good memories!!! This album will always have a special place in my heart.

Anyway, what are yor thoughts on The Miracle? Has it aged well? You still listen to it? Is it rubbish? Or a gem? What are your favourite songs from the album?

I still like this album a lot, and I think it's got some great songs on it. My favourites being The Miracle, I Want It All, Breakthru, Scandal and Was It All Worth It. Of course there are some weak moments as well (like Party and Rain Must Fall) but all in all, I think it's one their better albums from the 80's. The decision to credit everything for Queen obviously paid off. But I just can't help thinking that the album could have been even better if they had chosen different songs on it. B-sides like Hang On In There and Hijack My Heart would have made the album more interesting, plus it would have been great to hear Roger singing lead on a Queen album once again. Also, they should have released TMLWKY on the album 'cos the one thing this album lacks is a haunting piano ballad.

Your comments, please...
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Used to be my favorite album.
It's a great album with one un-catchy song (My Baby Does Me), and to be honest, people say a song like 'Hang On In There' is great and should of been on the album, I disagree as I hate the song and it sounds boring. I think the album needed one of those Freddie written power/love ballads though. That's the worst part of The Miracle... no Freddie love ballad. In fact, there's no love ballads at all.

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[b]lalaalalaa wrote: [/b]

I seem to be one of a few that actually enjoys Rain Must Fall.[/QUOTE]
One of my favorites on The Miracle!

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[b]mike hunt wrote: [/b]

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[b]Pim Derks wrote: [/b]



 

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[b]mike hunt wrote:[/b]



 



lol, Another Jealous roger fan.  Freddie and brian were the genious of queen. Get over it!...Mr. bad guy was a solo album, and not meant to be a masterpiece rock album like queen would make., that's what a solo album suppose to be, trying something different, lol....   Barcelona was indeed genious, and was better than most queen albums IMO. 




 

[/QUOTE]
Another Roger-fan my ass. If Freddie wanted to do something not-Queen like with his solo-career, why did he instruct the guitarplayer on She Blows Hot and Cold to sound like Brian May, why did he re-record TMBTLTT which was originally a Queen-song, why did he release Love Kills as a solo-track when it originally was a Queen song (and still features Brian / Roger I believe?), Man Made Paradise was also a Queen-track etc. Brian also commented on this last year or so in his soapbox. 

If I'm not mistaken 1978-1984 were the 'toughest' years in the band. I wouldn't be suprised if Mr Bad Guy wouldn't have happened at all if they got along better during this era - and so most of the songs on Mr Bad Guy might've ended up on a Queen-album anyway.

And Sebastian - nothing to do with cyberstalking. I just have a very good memory for things like that.[/QUOTE]
what the hell are you talking about?...The bottom line is roger is forgettable, no one even mentions the man as one of the top drummers of his time. Only little wannabe roger fanatics like you mention him.





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Roger is a great drummer.  Surely not the best but he is great.  He's better than most famous drummers.

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[b]lalaalalaa wrote: [/b]

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[b]mike hunt wrote: [/b]



 

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[b]Pim Derks wrote: [/b]



 



 



 

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[b]mike hunt wrote:[/b]



 



 



 



lol, Another Jealous roger fan.  Freddie and brian were the genious of queen. Get over it!...Mr. bad guy was a solo album, and not meant to be a masterpiece rock album like queen would make., that's what a solo album suppose to be, trying something different, lol....   Barcelona was indeed genious, and was better than most queen albums IMO. 



 



 



 

[/QUOTE]
Another Roger-fan my ass. If Freddie wanted to do something not-Queen like with his solo-career, why did he instruct the guitarplayer on She Blows Hot and Cold to sound like Brian May, why did he re-record TMBTLTT which was originally a Queen-song, why did he release Love Kills as a solo-track when it originally was a Queen song (and still features Brian / Roger I believe?), Man Made Paradise was also a Queen-track etc. Brian also commented on this last year or so in his soapbox. 

If I'm not mistaken 1978-1984 were the 'toughest' years in the band. I wouldn't be suprised if Mr Bad Guy wouldn't have happened at all if they got along better during this era - and so most of the songs on Mr Bad Guy might've ended up on a Queen-album anyway.

And Sebastian - nothing to do with cyberstalking. I just have a very good memory for things like that.[/QUOTE]
what the hell are you talking about?...The bottom line is roger is forgettable, no one even mentions the man as one of the top drummers of his time. Only little wannabe roger fanatics like you mention him.





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Roger is a great drummer.  Surely not the best but he is great.  He's better than most famous drummers.




[/QUOTE]



I would agree with that, he's a great drummer, but not with the best.

But.... who cares?  It's not a contest.  He was perfect for the band.  Instead of working on his chops all day, he wrote songs, and good ones.

How many drummers wrote worldwide #1 hits?  How many bands had every member write a #1 hit?

I think Roger's very underrated as drummer anyway. Most people think of him as 'the bloke with the high voice', which is true, but there's a lot more: mid-range vocals, low vocals, drumming, songwriting, arranging, producing...

The problem is, many people let their personal feelings get in the way of what should be objective perspectives. Myself, I've made that same mistake loads of times too. Certain May fans, for instance, try to justify their choice by putting down Mercury or his contributions, as in an overstretched response to those who worship Freddie to surreal levels. I bet many of those who criticised AI now find it 'ace' because May was in it.

But then again, there are also many people who are anti-May, anti-Deacon, anti-Taylor, etc., yet at the end of the day most pros and cons offered are quite dubious, or at least they've all got a strong counterargument:

- 'If John's part was so important, why isn't it noticeable?' --> You don't see the beam of a building, but it doesn't mean it's not important. Same for Roger's drumming or Freddie's piano-playing.

- 'If Roger's such a good drummer, why isn't he famous?' --> According to that, 'Nevermind' and 'Baby One More Time' are a hell of a lot better than any Queen album.

- 'TCR isn't a masterpiece, but Queen had loads of bad songs too' --> IDK about TCR, but is the 'Hot Space / Works' precedent relevant?

- 'Mr Bad Guy is shite, while the Queen versions of [i]IWBTLY[/i] and [i]MIH[/i] are brill': While the premise is true, it doesn't necessarily mean Fred was crap and Brian, Roger and John were geniuses. There are loads of factors involved: and indeed, Mercury deliberately wanted a non-Queen album, which isn't the same as a 'crap' album.

- 'It's got synths = it's bad' --> Technically, the human voice is also a synthesiser, and playing/programming keys isn't easy. To make something like the [i]Was It All Worth It [/i]interlude you still need to know a lot about music, and you've got to be a capable player. Loads of people prefer the sound of other instruments over synths (I do, for instance), but it doesn't mean synths are evil. They're an alternative, full stop.

And so on...

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[b]Sir GH wrote: [/b]

But.... who cares?  It's not a contest.  He was perfect for the band.  Instead of working on his chops all day, he wrote songs, and good ones.

How many drummers wrote worldwide #1 hits?  How many bands had every member write a #1 hit?

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Of course it's not a contest, but I for one feel proud knowing that that my favourite group produced perhaps the greatest male rock vocalist of all time, one of the absolute greatest guitarists of all time, one of the all-time great drummers who inspired several current-day drummers, as well as an extremely underrated bass player who was also very influential. What's wrong with caring about that?

But also, why do you care so much about commercial success? You've written posts praising Dream Theatre's international success and Roger's writing number 1 hits. One could argue that it's irrelevant, and what only matters is that you like Dream Theatre or Roger's writing, but you obviously care. Well, that's the same for the rest of us who like to compare Queen members with people from different groups.