The Works: Album & Tour

I am a little bit surprised about the dislike of the Works on here. It's a much better album than A kind of Magic and even The Game. As far as their 80s albums is concerened i think only The Miracle is slightly better and overall it's on my top5 list. Fans are rather often complaining that Queen went pop in the 80s and sure they did. What people shoulod realize is that throughout rock history most bands do their best work early on when they tend to be more hungry and Queen is no exception to that rule. Unlike most other bands Queen was still able to produce quality music in their later years and in my opinion The Works was the first of their good late albums. When a band gets older they have more money,m the hunger is gone, they have families and some of the anger is gone, Metalica is a perfect example. For me the way Queen progressed thru the 80s makes perfect sense to me. Sure the earlier albums were more daring and ground breaking but i always liked the fact that at some point they just did what they liked, thats a reason why especially The Miracle is a favorite of mine. Radio Gaga as example for me just got better over the years and Keep passing the open window is a little pop masterpiece, so relaxed , good lyrics , greatly sung, wonderful guitar and keyboards. Also the theme of the album about humanity that comes out in Radio Gaga, Machines,Hammer to fall and Is this the world we created makes it a semi concept album and i always felt there was a lot of humanity in the Works. If thyere is a album that was a bit thrown together it's A kind of magic in my opinion, it suffered a bit from the fact that some songs went to the movie and the others didn't , it has a few great and a few weak songs in it.Overall as a Queen fan for over 30 years i must say im rather happy on how the band managed their later years, of course that only goes for when John and Freddie were still in the band, everything after Made in Heaven is inexcusable...

> I am a little bit surprised about the dislike of the Works on here.

Usually, Queen fans (especially die-hards) like their rock music the most. Having an album with loads of pop, synths, e-drums and machines isn't what they're looking for - probably a Culture Club fan (and I'm not saying that as an insult) would like 'The Works' more than 'A Night at the Opera'.

> It's a much better album than A kind of Magic and even The Game.

I disagree: [i]Who Wants to Live Forever [/i]alone is better than all 'The Works' combined IMO. Not only the lyrics are beautiful, but the recording (a marvellous guitar solo, a wonderful orchestra, flawless vocals, nice synth). Same for [i]Save Me[/i].

> Fans are rather often complaining that Queen went pop in the 80s and sure they did.

Myself, I don't think rock > pop, and I do think Queen [b]always[/b] did pop (pop-rock at least). As a matter of fact, it's the only style they did on every album: [i]Keep Yourself Alive [/i](pop-rock IMO), [i]Funny How Love Is, Killer Queen[/i], etc. Of course, 'pop' isn't a static definition.

Now, what I dislike about 'The Works' is that you've got the same bloke who wrote [i]Prophet's Song [/i]contenting himself with [i]Tear It Up[/i] (which btw is not pop at all); even my favourite song in the album, [i]It's a Hard Life[/i], is to [i]Bohemian Rhapsody[/i] as a VW Beetle is to a Ferrari.

> What people shoulod realize is that throughout rock history most bands do their best work early on when they tend to be more hungry and Queen is no exception to that rule.

It doesn't justify a subpar album. 'The Works' is good, but it's way below their level. If Da Vinci went back to life and only painted a house, a tree, a mountain and a sun (all using two or three simple shapes) - it's nice, but it's nothing compared to what he could do. If Usain Bolt runs the hundred metres in 12 seconds, it's still way more than what 99% of people would be able to do, but it's way below his own skills - that's why it'd be disappointing.

> Unlike most other bands Queen was still able to produce quality music in their later years

Yes, but not enough IMO. Back to the athlete analogy.

> When a band gets older they have more money,m the hunger is gone, they have families and some of the anger is gone, Metalica is a perfect example.

Which is precisely why I'd rather listen to 'A Night at the Opera' twice than to listen to 'Opera' once and then 'Works'.

> For me the way Queen progressed thru the 80s makes perfect sense to me.

Which is why this is a forum: we've all got different opinions.

> Sure the earlier albums were more daring and ground breaking but i always liked the fact that at some point they just did what they liked

Yes, but they could've done it giving their best, which they didn't.

> Keep passing the open window is a little pop masterpiece, so relaxed , good lyrics , greatly sung, wonderful guitar and keyboards.

The thing is, such 'wonderful guitar and keyboards' were remarkably good for 'The Works' standards, but in the 70's they'd been amongst the worst of the album (e.g. 'Queen II').

> Also the theme of the album about humanity that comes out in Radio Gaga, Machines,Hammer to fall and Is this the world we created makes it a semi concept album

Yes, so? A mediocre concept album is still a mediocre album. Again, 'The Works' isn't bad, but it's way below Queen standards.

> and i always felt there was a lot of humanity in the Works.

IMO, there was very little humanity in the overuse of machines there. Extreme proved that with guitar, bass and drums you could have very descent versions of both [i]Ga Ga [/i]and [i]Break Free[/i]. Queen proved on stage that [i]Hammer to Fall [/i]is brilliant (unlike the crappy studio version - great vocals but that's it). The 'candy floss' on that particular song is totally redundant IMO, and [i]Windows[/i] has way too many synths - the home demo with just piano sounds great, if they'd kept that arrangement (adding bass, drums, guitar and vocals in a [i]Don't Stop Me Now [/i]sort of way) it'd have been a great choice for a single.

Without the synths, Keep Passing the Open Windows would be similar in style and tone to Spread Your Wings. Now IMO that would be a good thing, but I suspect Queen thought that by adding synths they were treading new ground. In fact, all it did was make them lazy.

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[b]Holly2003 wrote: [/b]



Without the synths, Keep Passing the Open Windows would be similar in style and tone to Spread Your Wings. Now IMO that would be a good thing, but I suspect Queen thought that by adding synths they were treading new ground. In fact, all it did was make them lazy.

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It's interesting. I used to [b]love [/b]SYW. Now, I just think it's a very good song on a great album, however I do LOVE KPTOW. Lazy? No, I don't think so. Certainly not in regards to that song, however I do feel that during the mid 80's they were nowhere near as creative as they during the 70's. As such, I don't think The Works is likely to ever be considered a great Queen album, or at least not by me.

Sebastian, I don't want you to think that I'm picking on you since I often quote you, but part of the reason is that your posts specifically catch my eye, since they are so interesting.

Sebastian wrote: "I disagree: Who Wants to Live Forever alone
is better than all 'The Works' combined IMO. Not only the lyrics are
beautiful, but the recording (a marvellous guitar solo, a wonderful
orchestra, flawless vocals, nice synth). Same for Save Me."

I love WWTLF. Granted, I don't love it quite as much as the average person (great performances from all band members but it's not even my favourite song on AKOM) however I do think it's a great song. I think it's better than most songs on The Works, but my problem with AKOM is that for every WWTLF, POTU and FWBF (which I'm probably the only person who loves), there's alot of dreadful stuff like OYOL and DLYH. I think that The Works is alot more consistent. As for The Game, I think it's a masterpiece anyway, even putting aside Save Me.

"Myself, I don't think rock > pop, and I do think Queen always did pop (pop-rock at least). As a matter of fact, it's the only style they did on every album: Keep Yourself Alive (pop-rock IMO), ."

Really? Granted, as you said, pop is rather subjective, but why do you consider KYA to be pop? I've always regarded it as a rock song verging on hard rock. Why do you consider it to be pop rock?

"> Keep passing the open window is a little pop masterpiece, so
relaxed , good lyrics , greatly sung, wonderful guitar and keyboards.

The thing is, such 'wonderful guitar and keyboards' were remarkably
good for 'The Works' standards, but in the 70's they'd been amongst the
worst of the album (e.g. 'Queen II')."

I'm going to be honest. I do think that the instrumentation on KPTOW were less than superb. But what makes it a masterpiece IMO is the writing and Freddie's vocals. Aside from the 'love is all you need' lyrics, I think it's one of the best written songs on The Works and I think that Freddie's vocals were the equal best, along with Machines.

>>> Sebastian, I don't want you to think that I'm picking on you since I often quote you, but part of the reason is that your posts specifically catch my eye, since they are so interesting.

I appreciate your interest on my posts, and I've never thought you're 'picking on (me)'. My 'cyber-stalking' comment was directed at those people who meddle in conversations I'm having with others without any constructive addition but only to come up with disrespectful uncalled-for remarks; or to those who are so obsessed with me they use out-of-context comments I've made months or years ago labelling them 'totally ridiculous'; or to those who behave like mates privately but then in public spread rumours about me copying and pasting from Wikipedia (which would indeed be 'totally ridiculous' if you compared both sources).

And you've done none of the above, so there'd be no valid reason (for my part) to make a storm in a teacup.

>>> I love WWTLF. Granted, I don't love it quite as much as the average person (great performances from all band members but it's not even my favourite song on AKOM) however I do think it's a great song.

Speaking of nitpick, I've got one for you - John Deacon doesn't perform on WWTLF, unless you mean his performance as the band's financial advisor ;)

>>> I think it's better than most songs on The Works, but my problem with AKOM is that for every WWTLF, POTU and FWBF (which I'm probably the only person who loves), there's alot of dreadful stuff like OYOL and DLYH.

Yes, it's a matter of taste. Myself, I don't like [i]Friends Will Be Friends [/i]but I love [i]One Year of Love [/i](the song, not the recording, as with [i]Hammer to Fall[/i]).

>>> I think that The Works is alot more consistent.

I think I may have a personal reason to loathe [i]Ga Ga[/i] and [i]Magic[/i] and it's the fact that I 'blame' them for Queen's shift into unoriginal trendy music. 'Queen II' was influenced by 'Dark Side of the Moon' and IMO there's nothing to envy from one another; songs like [i]Ga Ga[/i] or [i]Magic[/i] could fit well with Boy George or Wham, and while I'm not saying they're 'bad', they're way way way below Pink Floyd IMO. For that reason, I may 'double-hate' 'The Works', more so than 'Hot Space' or 'Magic'. But then again, us humans can never be 100% unbiased.

>>> As for The Game, I think it's a masterpiece anyway, even putting aside [i]Save Me[/i].

I think it's a very good album, a bit underrated because it was the first 'single collection' in a way.

>>> Really? Granted, as you said, pop is rather subjective, but why do you consider KYA to be pop? I've always regarded it as a rock song verging on hard rock. Why do you consider it to be pop rock?

Basically, because it's got some the main elements of pop music, which are:

- A short catchy chorus done a lot of times in the song (often on variants) mentioning the title.
- A repetitive and relatively short lead melody.
- An upbeat optimistic refrain.
- A static backing track for repeating sections (as opposed to songs using a big crescendo like [i]Stairway to Heaven[/i]).

Of course, there are also some non-pop aspects:

- The melody in the verses and break is a bit too 'bluesy' for most pop music (e.g. Spice Girls wouldn't do that, or BSB).
- Long instrumental intro and solos emphasising a band (rather than a singer or group of singers) label.
- Lyrics aren't about love. They're about themselves though, which is the second most poppy topic (e.g. NSYNC's [i]Pop[/i]).

Then again, all those 'signals' are still vague, and we can't consider a song to be or not to be pop even if all the 'conditions' are fulfiled (or not). For instance, [i]I Want It All[/i] isn't pop, although the chorus is catchy, its progression is done for almost all the song, it mentions the title and is optimistic; but the fact backing track keeps growing remains a very 'rock' aspect (as opposed to [i]KYA[/i]).

Likewise, [i]I Want It That Way[/i] (Backstreet Boys) has rock-like appoggiaturas, a non-static backing track, clever section variants and the chorus is much less repeated that on [i]I Want It All[/i] (the one by Queen, not the one in High School Musical). But I wouldn't count [i]IWITW[/i] as a rock song...

My main point is, sometimes people (and I'm not saying you're one of them) think that anything with electric guitar is 'rock' (or even 'hard rock' for that matter), and that all pop is like Madonna or Britney Spears. And there's a lot more to it than that... for me, [i]Keep Yourself Alive[/i] has enough poppy elements (especially the way singers take turns a la Take That) and enough rock elements to be 'rock-pop' or 'pop-rock', but of course by that I don't mean it's [i]less[/i] than a non-pop song; not at all.

>>> I'm going to be honest. I do think that the instrumentation on KPTOW were less than superb. But what makes it a masterpiece IMO is the writing and Freddie's vocals. Aside from the 'love is all you need' lyrics, I think it's one of the best written songs on The Works and I think that Freddie's vocals were the equal best, along with Machines.

Again, I could be biased: 'love is all you need' is as clichéd as it can be, and that's perhaps why it puts me off. I've always been a very romantic person, but I'm not into seeing love as a magical solution to everything... a song with such line (same for the one by The Beatles using the same five words but in different order) instantly bothers me; I prefer a more creative message such as 'spread your wings', 'keep yourself alive' or 'don't stop me now', however naïve or gay (as in 'upbeat', not 'homosexual' sense) they may be.

For the vocals, I agree - they're great. But there are also many Queen songs with equally great vocals [b]plus[/b] much better instrumentation [b]plus [/b]less clichéd lyrics [b]plus[/b] much better arrangements [b]plus [/b]much wiser structure, etc. For 'The Works', it's one of the best; for some of their 70's albums, it'd probably be on third division.

well, we're all in agreement that passing windows is a good song, but also the one line "love is all you need" brings it down a bit. Not enough to ruin the song comeplety though.   I don't get the whole thing with it's a hard life. people complain that queen changed and didn't do their usual style, but when they do something that could have been on a day at the races the same people complain that their ripping themselves off..... make up your freakin mind people!...every band that's been around for 20 years are gonna repeat themselves.  Bob dylan once said that every songwriter only truly writes 4 or 5 songs in his career.   the works isn't nearly as good as the game.  The game was the one 80's album that truly was solid. easily their best in that decade. Even though the second side loses a little steam.

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[b]Sebastian wrote:[/b]

Now, what I dislike about 'The Works' is that you've got the same bloke who wrote [i]Prophet's Song [/i]contenting himself with [i]Tear It Up[/i] (which btw is not pop at all); even my favourite song in the album, [i]It's a Hard Life[/i], is to [i]Bohemian Rhapsody[/i] as a VW Beetle is to a Ferrari.

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No way!  


[/QUOTE]The thing about It's a Hard Life is that it's what Bohemian Rhapsody would've been if Freddie hadn't thrown in the mock opera and the rock section.  The laid back approach to It's a Hard Life's middle section has actually grown on me a lot.[/QUOTE]
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[/QUOTE]I also can't fathom people who compare the song to "Play the Game" just because one phrase in the chorus sounds the same.  [/QUOTE]

it's a hard life is nothing like bo rhap. no opera section, no heavy part.  The middle section is great, love the piano and the guitar solo is vintage brian. I have no complaints at all with this song.  Who want to live forever?...is another 80's song that rivals the 70's....Those 2 songs are Just as brilliant as most of their 70's stuff.

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[b]Sebastian wrote: [/b]

Things that make [i]IAHL[/i] as classic Queen as it gets:

- Backing track of piano, bass and drums in a similar way to [i]Bo Rhap, Jealousy[/i], etc.
- Deliberately [i]Bohemian Rhapsody[/i]-esque guitar solo
- Guitar harmonies in a very 70's way
- Powerful backing vocals... loads of them
- No synths
- Sad, yet hopeful, love-lyrics (think about[i] Love of My Life[/i], for instance)
- Flat-side keys: B-Flat Major, E-Flat Major... both very reminiscent of the golden era
- First verse is preceded by a piano motif played twice over the Bb chord, exactly like [i]Bo Rhap[/i]
- Intro doesn't re-appear anywhere in the song, like [i]Bo Rhap[/i]
- The lift progression is basically the same as [i]Good Old Fashioned Lover Boy[/i] (chorus), and in the same key
- Andalusian cadence (before the solo), which Fred hadn't used since [i]Great King Rat [/i]and [i]Liar[/i] (modified)
- Relatively long melody content (as opposed to their contemporary singles like [i]Break Free[/i] or [i]Body Language[/i])
- While not complicated, it's still well-thought in terms of harmony and arrangements, like most Fred's piano ballads.
- Three choruses, but they're all different, just like [i]Killer Queen[/i]
[/QUOTE] I see what your getting at Seb and while the Hard Life should be applauded as an attempt to do old-style Queen during the 80´s (sounds like Fred put a lot of work into it) it just doesn´t grab you like those 70´s ballads do and no amount of technical explanation can give you that special formula. I WANT TO BREAK FREE is not a favourite of mine - it just follows a E/B/A plod with a predictable bridge but the melody just grabs you. In HARD LIFE  all the attributes are there but a chicken, an onion and bucket of water don´t make chicken soup, if you get my meaning.  Also if you listen to the chorus you can hear a retread of PLAY THE GAME.

If you took the opera and rock sections away from [i]Bo Rhap[/i] and leave it as a ballad (with a cappella intro and fanfare) it'd be very similar to [i]A Hard Life[/i], but still - IMO - a hell of a lot better.

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[b]Sebastian wrote: [/b]

If you took the opera and rock sections away from [i]Bo Rhap[/i] and leave it as a ballad (with a cappella intro and fanfare) it'd be very similar to [i]A Hard Life[/i], but still - IMO - a hell of a lot better.
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Absolutely right. People forget, with all it´s wizardry, Bo Rap has a really beautiful melody in the Ballad section and it´s a gorgeous delivery from Fred too.

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[b]Sebastian wrote: [/b]



Speaking of nitpick, I've got one for you - John Deacon doesn't perform on WWTLF, unless you mean his performance as the band's financial advisor ;)


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I'm embarassed; I had no idea. I really should pay more attention next time.

BTW, that was a fantastic post!

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[b]Zebonka12 wrote: [/b]



No way!  


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I also can't fathom people who compare the song to "Play the Game" just because one phrase in the chorus sounds the same.


Me neither. Those two songs are nothing alike. IAHL is alot more operatic, for one thing. The only song on The Works which reminds me of a song on The Game is MOTP which obviously reminds me of CLTCL.

Actually, [i]It's a Hard Life[/i] is only operatic during its first ten seconds. After that, it's a very nice ballad, but not operatic at all. It's indeed quite similar to [i]Play the Game[/i] in terms of backing track, style, form, sustained high note near the end. I do prefer [i]Hard Life[/i] since it's got more (and more interesting) harmonies, both guitar and vocals, and the bass-line is better too IMO.