[QUOTE]
[b]Bigfish wrote:[/b]
[b] it just doesn´t grab you like those 70´s ballads do[/b]
[/QUOTE]
No, it just doesn't grab 'you' like those 70's ballads do. Not everyone feels the same way. Hehehe.
john bodega
Thread
Posts in chronological order
Sebastian
Amazon, I beg to differ about:
- [i]We Will Rock You:[/i] It's just a beat with pentatonic melody. Nothing special... the song's legendary but on purely musical terms it's not more creative or original than [i]Wannabe[/i]. And on that note...
- Spice Girls: They're way better than most people give them credit for. Most of the music wasn't written by them, so? The final result's good anyway. The fact they're pop and the fact they sold more by their image and marketing than by their music doesn't mean the latter is bad.
- I definitely would go to a concert where Brian only sang and didn't play any instrument.
Otherwise, great post. Not something I entirely agree with, but good way to express your opinion and to fight prejudices.
- [i]We Will Rock You:[/i] It's just a beat with pentatonic melody. Nothing special... the song's legendary but on purely musical terms it's not more creative or original than [i]Wannabe[/i]. And on that note...
- Spice Girls: They're way better than most people give them credit for. Most of the music wasn't written by them, so? The final result's good anyway. The fact they're pop and the fact they sold more by their image and marketing than by their music doesn't mean the latter is bad.
- I definitely would go to a concert where Brian only sang and didn't play any instrument.
Otherwise, great post. Not something I entirely agree with, but good way to express your opinion and to fight prejudices.
john bodega
[QUOTE]
[b]Yara wrote: [/b]
Hi folks!
How are you?
[/QUOTE]
Oh God here we go.
[b]Yara wrote: [/b]
Hi folks!
How are you?
[/QUOTE]
Oh God here we go.
Amazon
[QUOTE]
[b]Sebastian wrote: [/b]
Amazon, I beg to differ about:
- [i]We Will Rock You:[/i] It's just a beat with pentatonic melody. Nothing special... the song's legendary but on purely musical terms it's not more creative or original than [i]Wannabe[/i]. And on that note...
- Spice Girls: They're way better than most people give them credit for. Most of the music wasn't written by them, so? The final result's good anyway. The fact they're pop and the fact they sold more by their image and marketing than by their music doesn't mean the latter is bad.
- I definitely would go to a concert where Brian only sang and didn't play any instrument.
Otherwise, great post. Not something I entirely agree with, but good way to express your opinion and to fight prejudices.
[/QUOTE]
Thanks Sebastian. Regarding Brian, I love his voice and I also would go to a concert where he only sings, but he's more recognised as a guitarist who sings rather than a singer/guitarist. Regarding the Spice Girls, I think they're fun, but I was making the point that pop music isn't just the usual suspects, and that it also contains genuine artists. People have their own views on what makes an artist, but for me, a pop artist is just as much of an artist as a jazz or classical artist. Regarding WWRY, I actually do think it is truly special. I don't think that art is solely determined by how difficult it is. So, whilst WWRY is not musically complexed, I do think that based on the performances, the writing, and yes, the actual concept, I think it is real art. But, again thanks for the kind words.
P.S. If there are anything else which you completely disagree with, please don't hold back. I can take it. :D
[b]Sebastian wrote: [/b]
Amazon, I beg to differ about:
- [i]We Will Rock You:[/i] It's just a beat with pentatonic melody. Nothing special... the song's legendary but on purely musical terms it's not more creative or original than [i]Wannabe[/i]. And on that note...
- Spice Girls: They're way better than most people give them credit for. Most of the music wasn't written by them, so? The final result's good anyway. The fact they're pop and the fact they sold more by their image and marketing than by their music doesn't mean the latter is bad.
- I definitely would go to a concert where Brian only sang and didn't play any instrument.
Otherwise, great post. Not something I entirely agree with, but good way to express your opinion and to fight prejudices.
[/QUOTE]
Thanks Sebastian. Regarding Brian, I love his voice and I also would go to a concert where he only sings, but he's more recognised as a guitarist who sings rather than a singer/guitarist. Regarding the Spice Girls, I think they're fun, but I was making the point that pop music isn't just the usual suspects, and that it also contains genuine artists. People have their own views on what makes an artist, but for me, a pop artist is just as much of an artist as a jazz or classical artist. Regarding WWRY, I actually do think it is truly special. I don't think that art is solely determined by how difficult it is. So, whilst WWRY is not musically complexed, I do think that based on the performances, the writing, and yes, the actual concept, I think it is real art. But, again thanks for the kind words.
P.S. If there are anything else which you completely disagree with, please don't hold back. I can take it. :D
Yara
Hi, Amazon!
How are you? I hope you had a good day!
First of all, thank you for the thoughtful, well-argued and very well-written reply. It's endearing, and a great honor, to see a smart person devoting part of the time, this all too scarce resource for all of us!, to give the points I raised a thought and reply to them with care and respect.
For that, I'm deeply grateful. The fact you passionately disagree with me has turned out to be wonderful because it prompted you to write such a beautiful, well-argued and detailed post. I'm thrilled, your post was a delight to read.
By writing it you made me happy and also contributed a lot to the community. So thanks. :-)))
For sure we have very different outlooks on music in general. I feel we've come to a divide I just can't, and don't pretend to, bridge - it's that kind of point we may argue about forever without getting to a common denominator. :op
Plus, your post was very interesting and the best way I can do justice to it is thinking about it, reading it again, giving it the attention it deserves. You make so many interesting arguments and raise so many interesting points and tackle such different aspects of the issue that I just can't answer to it.
I just wanted you to know that, yes, I read your post carefully, twice as of now, and was really delighted by it. I love to let my mind go astray, in a positive sense, and keep thinking about these issues.
You gave me food for thought and brought me joy by addressing in such a thorough way the points I raised. It's a gift to me.
You're not alone in disagreeing with me: I'm often criticized by all sides and end up arguing with all those who are taking part in the thread! lol It's fun, I learn a whole lot. If time allows, and you feel like doing it, I guess you'd have some fun reading the huge discussion over the "Sun City" issue: it was "Yara vs Queenzone". Hehehe.
The result? Queenzone 10 vs 0 Yara [knocked out on the floor!] But I learn so much here and the interaction helps me see how limited my understanding of things are and how much I need to improve. It's great.
-----
Now, what we agree on! :op
Ah, I also love We Will Rock You! It's so amazingly recorded, as you pointed out, and the idea is so clever. The song sounds all too powerful and "in your face". I love this song so much that I can't avoid writing about it, I hope I don't come across as too boring or stupid. :op
It features amazing, gorgeous vocals by Freddie in a pristine, clear and round baritone tone and a quite interesting play with unisons, monophonic textures and clever chord resolutions.
Freddie starts singing the song in D3 and soon goes up to E3. He stays in this key for most of the song, eventually dropping the tune again to D3. The way his singing cleverly gravitates around both keys is wonderful. It's powerful minimalism too! What's amazing is that, by the time of the intro to the refrain, he goes down to D3 and then begins to drop the tune wildly in a jaw-dropping way: "all" (B2) "over the" (A2-G2-E2) "place" (E2)! The refrain has him singing then in...G3 and the quality of his tone remains absolutely the same. It's brutal.
All this is done in an unison-based monophonic texture which suddenly and quickly runs through patterned leaps to higher (in this case, 5ths: from the home key he starts in to the fifth) notes - he's keeping himself between D3 and E3 and then sudden leaps to A3 (MAN-some day/WORLD-some day). It's a beautiful, rounded and brutal, though subtle in the way it sounds, quick move to a tune 5 notes up, and the same interval is resumed over and over again and he lands beautifully, always, on one of the prevailing keys.
Even though the chordal structure is based on very simple inversions - (A-D-A-D-A-Asus-D...), there's a clever C power chord harmonizing the A major and making the song sound tighter. and much more strong.
The result is great. Thunderous guitar effects, a haunting chorus going down the scale in thirds from G3 to E3, eventually dropping to D3 again (WILL...) to resolve the bar on the right key on the last moment!, setting the stage for a quasi-liturgical celebration of Rock: Freddie's powerful baritone singing in unisons reminds me of a Gregorian chant of sorts and the refrain comes in as a celebration of what that strong, lonely voice had been "praying".
To my humble taste, it's amazing. But then anyway, News of The World is my favorite Queen album by a far margin.
Have you heard Freddie performing this beauty at Hammersmith Odeon in 1979 while he's on top of the superman? lol It's SERIOUSLY GOOD. His tone is so pristine and muscular, and he manages to go to such low notes and manages to nail the higher ones so beautifully, that it sends chills down my spine!
What I love about this song, as many others from Queen, is the way it's delivered on stage: while Freddie was at his peak, he kept hammering the same note during the verses without missing a single one or straying away even a tiny bit - he's so in tune that he's able to elicit the very same note and make it sound exactly like he wants over and over again, and managing to resolve the verses squarely using either of the two notes which fight for the status of prevailing key. :-) That adds such a groove and wonderful sense of balance to the vocals, it's beautiful.
But the most important to me, as a girl, is seeing and listening to him sing this song during his prime - it is so absolutely SEXY!!! :-)))) Gosh...really, it resonates with my hormones.
It's such a powerful, confident, round, clear and muscular singing coming from such a sexy figure...oh my!!!!
[fainting]
I hope you have a great day and all goes well with you!
Thanks and I wish you the best of the best! :-))
Yara
How are you? I hope you had a good day!
First of all, thank you for the thoughtful, well-argued and very well-written reply. It's endearing, and a great honor, to see a smart person devoting part of the time, this all too scarce resource for all of us!, to give the points I raised a thought and reply to them with care and respect.
For that, I'm deeply grateful. The fact you passionately disagree with me has turned out to be wonderful because it prompted you to write such a beautiful, well-argued and detailed post. I'm thrilled, your post was a delight to read.
By writing it you made me happy and also contributed a lot to the community. So thanks. :-)))
For sure we have very different outlooks on music in general. I feel we've come to a divide I just can't, and don't pretend to, bridge - it's that kind of point we may argue about forever without getting to a common denominator. :op
Plus, your post was very interesting and the best way I can do justice to it is thinking about it, reading it again, giving it the attention it deserves. You make so many interesting arguments and raise so many interesting points and tackle such different aspects of the issue that I just can't answer to it.
I just wanted you to know that, yes, I read your post carefully, twice as of now, and was really delighted by it. I love to let my mind go astray, in a positive sense, and keep thinking about these issues.
You gave me food for thought and brought me joy by addressing in such a thorough way the points I raised. It's a gift to me.
You're not alone in disagreeing with me: I'm often criticized by all sides and end up arguing with all those who are taking part in the thread! lol It's fun, I learn a whole lot. If time allows, and you feel like doing it, I guess you'd have some fun reading the huge discussion over the "Sun City" issue: it was "Yara vs Queenzone". Hehehe.
The result? Queenzone 10 vs 0 Yara [knocked out on the floor!] But I learn so much here and the interaction helps me see how limited my understanding of things are and how much I need to improve. It's great.
-----
Now, what we agree on! :op
Ah, I also love We Will Rock You! It's so amazingly recorded, as you pointed out, and the idea is so clever. The song sounds all too powerful and "in your face". I love this song so much that I can't avoid writing about it, I hope I don't come across as too boring or stupid. :op
It features amazing, gorgeous vocals by Freddie in a pristine, clear and round baritone tone and a quite interesting play with unisons, monophonic textures and clever chord resolutions.
Freddie starts singing the song in D3 and soon goes up to E3. He stays in this key for most of the song, eventually dropping the tune again to D3. The way his singing cleverly gravitates around both keys is wonderful. It's powerful minimalism too! What's amazing is that, by the time of the intro to the refrain, he goes down to D3 and then begins to drop the tune wildly in a jaw-dropping way: "all" (B2) "over the" (A2-G2-E2) "place" (E2)! The refrain has him singing then in...G3 and the quality of his tone remains absolutely the same. It's brutal.
All this is done in an unison-based monophonic texture which suddenly and quickly runs through patterned leaps to higher (in this case, 5ths: from the home key he starts in to the fifth) notes - he's keeping himself between D3 and E3 and then sudden leaps to A3 (MAN-some day/WORLD-some day). It's a beautiful, rounded and brutal, though subtle in the way it sounds, quick move to a tune 5 notes up, and the same interval is resumed over and over again and he lands beautifully, always, on one of the prevailing keys.
Even though the chordal structure is based on very simple inversions - (A-D-A-D-A-Asus-D...), there's a clever C power chord harmonizing the A major and making the song sound tighter. and much more strong.
The result is great. Thunderous guitar effects, a haunting chorus going down the scale in thirds from G3 to E3, eventually dropping to D3 again (WILL...) to resolve the bar on the right key on the last moment!, setting the stage for a quasi-liturgical celebration of Rock: Freddie's powerful baritone singing in unisons reminds me of a Gregorian chant of sorts and the refrain comes in as a celebration of what that strong, lonely voice had been "praying".
To my humble taste, it's amazing. But then anyway, News of The World is my favorite Queen album by a far margin.
Have you heard Freddie performing this beauty at Hammersmith Odeon in 1979 while he's on top of the superman? lol It's SERIOUSLY GOOD. His tone is so pristine and muscular, and he manages to go to such low notes and manages to nail the higher ones so beautifully, that it sends chills down my spine!
What I love about this song, as many others from Queen, is the way it's delivered on stage: while Freddie was at his peak, he kept hammering the same note during the verses without missing a single one or straying away even a tiny bit - he's so in tune that he's able to elicit the very same note and make it sound exactly like he wants over and over again, and managing to resolve the verses squarely using either of the two notes which fight for the status of prevailing key. :-) That adds such a groove and wonderful sense of balance to the vocals, it's beautiful.
But the most important to me, as a girl, is seeing and listening to him sing this song during his prime - it is so absolutely SEXY!!! :-)))) Gosh...really, it resonates with my hormones.
It's such a powerful, confident, round, clear and muscular singing coming from such a sexy figure...oh my!!!!
[fainting]
I hope you have a great day and all goes well with you!
Thanks and I wish you the best of the best! :-))
Yara
i-Fred
[QUOTE]
[b]Sebastian wrote: [/b]
Amazon, I beg to differ about:
- [i]We Will Rock You:[/i] It's just a beat with pentatonic melody. Nothing special... the song's legendary but on purely musical terms it's not more creative or original than [i]Wannabe[/i]. And on that note...
- Spice Girls: They're way better than most people give them credit for. Most of the music wasn't written by them, so? The final result's good anyway. The fact they're pop and the fact they sold more by their image and marketing than by their music doesn't mean the latter is bad.
- I definitely would go to a concert where Brian only sang and didn't play any instrument.
Otherwise, great post. Not something I entirely agree with, but good way to express your opinion and to fight prejudices.
[/QUOTE]
Spice girls??????? eheheh They were all hand picked. Auditions took place, they were not a group of girls who were friends and got together. They were selected, packaged, and put together.
[b]Sebastian wrote: [/b]
Amazon, I beg to differ about:
- [i]We Will Rock You:[/i] It's just a beat with pentatonic melody. Nothing special... the song's legendary but on purely musical terms it's not more creative or original than [i]Wannabe[/i]. And on that note...
- Spice Girls: They're way better than most people give them credit for. Most of the music wasn't written by them, so? The final result's good anyway. The fact they're pop and the fact they sold more by their image and marketing than by their music doesn't mean the latter is bad.
- I definitely would go to a concert where Brian only sang and didn't play any instrument.
Otherwise, great post. Not something I entirely agree with, but good way to express your opinion and to fight prejudices.
[/QUOTE]
Spice girls??????? eheheh They were all hand picked. Auditions took place, they were not a group of girls who were friends and got together. They were selected, packaged, and put together.
Sebastian
Yes, they were selected, packaged and put together, and they made good music.
i-Fred
[QUOTE]
[b]Sebastian wrote: [/b]
Yes, they were selected, packaged and put together, and they made good music.
[/QUOTE]
was it really them?? I dont think so. They didnt put the tunes together. It was the "producers" that made the music. And it was only the first album that really was any good.
If were talking Live? well they could perform no doubt. But I wouldn't place all the credit on the girls. Lots of corporate fat cats really pushed it.
[b]Sebastian wrote: [/b]
Yes, they were selected, packaged and put together, and they made good music.
[/QUOTE]
was it really them?? I dont think so. They didnt put the tunes together. It was the "producers" that made the music. And it was only the first album that really was any good.
If were talking Live? well they could perform no doubt. But I wouldn't place all the credit on the girls. Lots of corporate fat cats really pushed it.
Sebastian
They did contribute to some of the tunes, and even if they didn't, it doesn't mean they're not musicians. Loads of great artists don't write what they sing or play, and it doesn't make them 'bad' at all. Were Emma et al virtuoso singers? No. Were they musicians on the same level as Annie Lennox or even Susanna Hoffs? No. But, were they musicians? Yes. Did they make good music? Yes (even if not by themselves, but nearly nobody has 100% of their product, Beatles had Martin, Queen had producers, and it doesn't make them less brill than they were).
i-Fred
[QUOTE]
[b]Sebastian wrote: [/b]
They did contribute to some of the tunes, and even if they didn't, it doesn't mean they're not musicians. Loads of great artists don't write what they sing or play, and it doesn't make them 'bad' at all. Were Emma et al virtuoso singers? No. Were they musicians on the same level as Annie Lennox or even Susanna Hoffs? No. But, were they musicians? Yes. Did they make good music? Yes (even if not by themselves, but nearly nobody has 100% of their product, Beatles had Martin, Queen had producers, and it doesn't make them less brill than they were).
[/QUOTE]
yeah I see what your saying.. but it was all some one else idea. Yes Queen ect, ect had producers but thats totally different.
I wouldnt say they are Musicians. They are not Musicians. Sorry but to say spice girls are musicians is pretty funny. When yoy argue who is the better drummer or guitar play, some one will say Brian is better than Eddie, or Roger is not as good as Bonam. But you would be fair to say that Brian and Roger and better musicians.
Spice girls dont bare Musicians as a genuine title. Pop Singers, Pop Artists would fit better than Musicians.
[b]Sebastian wrote: [/b]
They did contribute to some of the tunes, and even if they didn't, it doesn't mean they're not musicians. Loads of great artists don't write what they sing or play, and it doesn't make them 'bad' at all. Were Emma et al virtuoso singers? No. Were they musicians on the same level as Annie Lennox or even Susanna Hoffs? No. But, were they musicians? Yes. Did they make good music? Yes (even if not by themselves, but nearly nobody has 100% of their product, Beatles had Martin, Queen had producers, and it doesn't make them less brill than they were).
[/QUOTE]
yeah I see what your saying.. but it was all some one else idea. Yes Queen ect, ect had producers but thats totally different.
I wouldnt say they are Musicians. They are not Musicians. Sorry but to say spice girls are musicians is pretty funny. When yoy argue who is the better drummer or guitar play, some one will say Brian is better than Eddie, or Roger is not as good as Bonam. But you would be fair to say that Brian and Roger and better musicians.
Spice girls dont bare Musicians as a genuine title. Pop Singers, Pop Artists would fit better than Musicians.
Sheer Brass Neck
The Spice Girls should only be mentioned in the same breath as Queen and The Beatles if it was phrased like a Jeopardy question:
[/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]A; They are the polar opposites in talent to Queen and The Beatles.[/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]Q: Who are the Spice Girls?[/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]Catchy pop (in the eye of the beholder) can be great. The Spice girls were 100% contrived, and even if the songs were good, I and others had no emotional attachment as they were singing things that were ultimately other people's thoughts, designed to sell but ultimately it was incredibly vapid music.[/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]A; They are the polar opposites in talent to Queen and The Beatles.[/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]Q: Who are the Spice Girls?[/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]Catchy pop (in the eye of the beholder) can be great. The Spice girls were 100% contrived, and even if the songs were good, I and others had no emotional attachment as they were singing things that were ultimately other people's thoughts, designed to sell but ultimately it was incredibly vapid music.[/QUOTE]
i-Fred
ehehe well said....
Sebastian
Musician is a person whose profession (either by vocation or finance) is music. And Spice Girls are there. They're, for that reason, musicians. Good musicians? Bad musicians? That's subjective. But they are musicians, indeed.
i-Fred
[QUOTE]
[b]Sebastian wrote: [/b]
Musician is a person whose profession (either by vocation or finance) is music. And Spice Girls are there. They're, for that reason, musicians. Good musicians? Bad musicians? That's subjective. But they are musicians, indeed.[/QUOTE]
yeah OK.... I could get some friends together, get some girls, some guys, make a home made porn film... and then sell it...
Now.. am I am porn star????? No.....
I will not accept spice girls as being musicians... and if by any means I am wrong, then they have cheated the word "Musician" and have taken away its respect and charm.
[b]Sebastian wrote: [/b]
Musician is a person whose profession (either by vocation or finance) is music. And Spice Girls are there. They're, for that reason, musicians. Good musicians? Bad musicians? That's subjective. But they are musicians, indeed.[/QUOTE]
yeah OK.... I could get some friends together, get some girls, some guys, make a home made porn film... and then sell it...
Now.. am I am porn star????? No.....
I will not accept spice girls as being musicians... and if by any means I am wrong, then they have cheated the word "Musician" and have taken away its respect and charm.
Sheer Brass Neck
Interesting definition Sebastian. Not disagreeing at all, but I'd differentiate between musicians and singers. To many, Frank Sinatra was the greatest singer of his generation. Or Elvis Presley for rock fans. But I've never, ever heard them (or for old Queen fans generation, Rod Stewart) referred to as great musicians. I'm not talking the pure dctionary definition of musician, but I think most people who are called good musicians are instrument players. Even though singers create "music", I personally wouldn't call Celine Dion, great voice and all, a musician.