Why Mr. Bad Guy was a flop?

Zebonka12 wrote:

 I think Mr. Bad Guy stands as a solid reminder that *at that time*, Freddie would've been no good without Queen.  Earlier than that, or later (if he hadn't had AIDS), who knows what he would have been capable of.

The record shows that his first solo album wasn't very good, for whatever reason.  It had interesting ideas, but so did TCR.  It's not Brian/Roger fan jealousy to say that Freddie didn't do so well on his own because on his first album that was true.  And on his second album there was a lot more collaborating going on.




I think, at least in the 80's, that Freddie benefited more from creating with others than he did by himself.

[/QUOTE]  Well, Queen's first album was not that good either. Though he had already composed Liar. Hehe.
 
No Freddie bigotry here, but I think it's a bit unfair to pass this judgement on someone who barely had the time to experience a solo career.

I think many of the work he left and, of course, Barcelona, points out that he was a very promising solo artist: he was creative, had good ideas and, what's even more important, was wise about whom he'd like to collaborate with at that point.

His choices were by not means flawless, but Barcelona does stand out as a very creative and impressive work by someone who was learning one of the basic conditions to be a good solo artist: collaborating with the right people!

I think benefiting from collaborations with good artists is a very important part of most solo careers. For sure Bowie is great, for instance, but one of the things that made him such a legendary artist was his intelligence for picking up the right people to work with him in different periods of his career depending on what kind of sound he was trying to get at.  
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Mr Bad Guy: Fred said he wanted to make disposable pop. Well done Fred, you achieved your aim. Mr Bad Guy takes its place alongside Debbie Gibson and Rick Astley in the realms of lightweight, disposable crap from the 80s. Barcelona is not a solo album and so can't be judged by quite the same standards (e.g. Fred + Brian May wouldn't be a solo album).Given the direction Fred's songwriting and interests were taking him, there's no reason to beleive any more of his solo albums would've been any good (the Great Pretender single was awful: horribly oversung, and a really crappy, unimaginative video). Using synths for the orchestra parts shows how lazy he got in the 80s. Brian and Roger's solo stuff is a lot more polished and interesting.As someone mentioned though, a Fred solo career beginning in the early 70s might've been a lot more interesting -- back when he had something to prove.

I stand by what I wrote. I think Mr. Bad Guy, despite all its flaws and problems, showcased a promising solo career - for a debut, it was quite decent. Songs such as "I Was Born To Love You", "There Must Be More To Life Than This", "Living on my own", "Made In Heaven" would become quite successful. It's not as if it were sketches or vague ideas, but good songs on their own, which had a great potential and proved to be surprisingly successful later. Given a different remix, "Living On My Own" came to peak at #1 - despite being a remix and having been issued after Freddie's death, well, it's still the only song by a Queen member originally released as a solo effort to peak at #1. The title track itself is quite amusing and, frankly, the album sounds very promising and as an interesting debut to me. 

I can't agree with Barcelona not being credited as part of his solo work - it was a solo project in the sense that it was something he had a massive input on - as songwriter, producer and performer - and Queen was not part of. 

And, again, Barcelona shows how creative and inventive he was. The simple fact that he had the idea of engaging in such a project is a sign of how visionary he could be - if he didn't have anything worthy to come up with, neither Mike Moran nor Montserrat would have accepted working with him, and yet both recognized in him a great composer and talent on his own. Had Freddie not died, Barcelona could have become the song theme for the Olympics.
 
He became aware of his illness about the mid-80's and that for sure was a dramatic change. I can't take this factor out of the equation and say: "Well, Freddie without Queen couldn't go much far either...".

It's not a fair argument, to my mind - he barely had time to develop a solo career. Later on he'd devote most of his energies to Queen, so, who knows?

About the direction his interests were taking...he was so versatile. He could compose a track such as "Princes of Universe" or "The Miracle" or something as simple as "Delilah". He could change directions. I still think he could have had a very good, solid solo career, but he barely had time to. 

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But my main point is: Mr. Bad Guy was a debut. Barcelona was a great project. Who knows what he could have achieved? Saying that Mr. Bad Guy sucks is one thing; saying that "he couldn't go far without Queen" is a very dubious claim: he barely had the time to learn his way as a solo artist. When he did give it a try, he released a promising debut album which would provide songs for Made In Heaven and conceived a very original and inventive musical project and partnership with a world-reknown Soprano. 

 

Hmm... amazing how two people can view the same thing and come to opposite conclusions.

For me, the mix, production, and over-use of synths really overwhelms any positive aspects. Some songs are okay, some catchy, but there's nothing particualrly special about anything. I haven't listened to the album for as long as I can remember. Really can't stand that 80s sound.

As for Barcelona, it's not Queen but it's not a solo artist efort either: it's as much a Monserrat album as it is Fred's.

Holly2003 wrote:

As for Barcelona, it's not Queen but it's not a solo artist efort either: it's as much a Monserrat album as it is Fred's.

No, you're wanting to sound tough now. : -) It was a solo effort in the sense that he embarked on a project on his own, as Freddie Mercury, without Queen. He conceived the project, he wrote Barcelona and he would take the songs for Montserrat to listen to - he had something to offer her and asked her if he she wanted to work with him. She listened to the demos. She agreed - he was asking her to work with him as Freddie Mercury, not Queen or whatever else: Freddie+ something.

Of course he collaborated with a lot of people, but these people, just like Mike Moran, would never have accepted doing this album with him if they didn't tought he, Freddie Mercury, Bulsara, had some great ideas and good sketches to work on. :)) 

Come on, give me this point. : -) Just this one. Never mind the "Mr. Bad Guy" point because it's taste and we'll never agree, but this one...you're being to tough on me. : -( 

But anyway: Brian and Roger collaborated with none other than Paul Rodgers and the result was "The Cosmos Rock", which is very so and so. Freddie conceived a project and collaborated with Montserrat and the result was "Barcelona". Isn't Barcelona much more inventive, creative, different? In terms of creativity, I guess it's a much more interesting work. And there's no "Surf's up School's out". Not even in Mr. Bad Guy there's anything remotely like "Surf's Up School's Out". The title track is amusing at least and the rest is quite cool - "I Was Born To Love You", "There Must Be More To Life Than This", "Made in Heaven". And he left such songs as "Time", "In My Defence", and even the silly stuff like "Your Kind of Lover" was different - that dramatic piano-driven ballad begins and soon unfolds into a fake-caribbean dance pop with wonderful vocals. It's upbeat, fun - it was a good debut album. I'm not saying it was brilliant - but as a debut album for someone who had never done a solo work, it was a good start. 

He didn't even have the time to learn his way as a solo artist. He himself said that he was dissatisfied with many of the results but that the record company wanted him to release this or that song no matter what. The Freddie Box Set gives the impression of an artist who had so much potential as a solo artist. It really does. 

All he needed was time, the one thing which he was denied. 

I hope I managed to move you at least. ;-))) Hehehe.  

Okay. This may be a first on an internet forum, but I've listened to your arguments about Barcelona and I now agree with you.

MrBad Guy still sucks though :p

Holly2003 wrote:

MrBad Guy still sucks though :p 

Damn! : -))

Freddie was an amazing talent but he also needed the great minds of others to let him shine....that is way I have not been particularly impressed with his solo material...some of Mr Bad Guy was pretty good....Barcelona was better due to collaboration...when I listen to the Freddie Box set though I think...there are some interesting ideas but he needed to get some in the hands of someone like Brian,Roger, even Mike Moran etc...
Similarly with Brian...he sounded way better with Cozy Powell than some crappy programmed drum machine...and with a vocalist like Freddie he could be great...

Yara wrote:

 



Zebonka12 wrote:



 I think Mr. Bad Guy stands as a solid reminder that *at that time*, Freddie would've been no good without Queen.  Earlier than that, or later (if he hadn't had AIDS), who knows what he would have been capable of.

The record shows that his first solo album wasn't very good, for whatever reason.  It had interesting ideas, but so did TCR.  It's not Brian/Roger fan jealousy to say that Freddie didn't do so well on his own because on his first album that was true.  And on his second album there was a lot more collaborating going on.




I think, at least in the 80's, that Freddie benefited more from creating with others than he did by himself.

 Well, Queen's first album was not that good either. Though he had already composed Liar. Hehe.
 
No Freddie bigotry here, but I think it's a bit unfair to pass this judgement on someone who barely had the time to experience a solo career.

I think many of the work he left and, of course, Barcelona, points out that he was a very promising solo artist: he was creative, had good ideas and, what's even more important, was wise about whom he'd like to collaborate with at that point.

His choices were by not means flawless, but Barcelona does stand out as a very creative and impressive work by someone who was learning one of the basic conditions to be a good solo artist: collaborating with the right people!

I think benefiting from collaborations with good artists is a very important part of most solo careers. For sure Bowie is great, for instance, but one of the things that made him such a legendary artist was his intelligence for picking up the right people to work with him in different periods of his career depending on what kind of sound he was trying to get at.  
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Exuse me?...the first Queen album rules. One of the better debuts in rock history. Just ask axle rose, david lee roth, eddie van halen and many others that think queens first album was among the best.





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Holly2003 wrote:

Hmm... amazing how two people can view the same thing and come to opposite conclusions.

For me, the mix, production, and over-use of synths really overwhelms any positive aspects. Some songs are okay, some catchy, but there's nothing particualrly special about anything. I haven't listened to the album for as long as I can remember. Really can't stand that 80s sound.

As for Barcelona, it's not Queen but it's not a solo artist efort either: it's as much a Monserrat album as it is Fred's.

your trying too be cute now,  barcelona's not a solo album?....that means back to the light isn't a brian may solo album, it's a brian + cozy album. Don't try to be smart, you Just make yourself look dumb.

Grantcdn1 wrote:

Freddie was an amazing talent but he also needed the great minds of others to let him shine....that is way I have not been particularly impressed with his solo material...some of Mr Bad Guy was pretty good....Barcelona was better due to collaboration...when I listen to the Freddie Box set though I think...there are some interesting ideas but he needed to get some in the hands of someone like Brian,Roger, even Mike Moran etc...
Similarly with Brian...he sounded way better with Cozy Powell than some crappy programmed drum machine...and with a vocalist like Freddie he could be great...

true, but what your saying is true for anyone.  Put crappy musicians behind hendrix, would he have gotten far?....put lennon with crappy musicians, would he have gotten far?....elvis, the same thing. so on and so on.

mike hunt wrote:

barcelona's not a solo album?....that means back to the light isn't a brian may solo album, it's a brian + cozy album. Don't try to be smart, you Just make yourself look dumb.

Barcelona is not a solo album.  Freddie may have co-written and produced the entire thing, but, even if one wants to conveniently ignore Montserrat in the artist listing, by definition, this album of duets is not a solo album.

It is a solo project with regards to the Queen umbrella, but not as an album in its own right.

ok, then back to the light isn't a solo album either since cozy powell was on the album. Also, satriani was on it.   some of the songs were also co written.

Yeah, I read that the first time.  Still nonsense.

lol, how is it nonsense?...I love queenzone.  I love the people on this site. they make me laugh.