john bodega
Maybe you've met more promoters than I have, but I personally wouldn't place more faith in them than I had to ... I guess that's down to personal experience though!
Thread
Posts in chronological order
YourValentine
They are businessmen, right? Not the mafia. They cannot possibly force an artist to do concerts if he does not want to (or needs to due to money problems). The only concert promoter I ever met in person was a music fanatic who simply loved the bands he promoted but he was an old guy from the 70s/80s, so no - I have no personal experience with promoters. All I am saying is that there are no such simple cause-and-effect descriptions of peoples' lives. Many events were responsible for the early death of MJ and you cannot just pick one of them.
john bodega
[QUOTE]
[b]YourValentine wrote: [/b]
They are businessmen, right? Not the mafia.
[/QUOTE]
Ask a mafioso what he is and he'll probably say 'businessman'. Heh.
[b]YourValentine wrote: [/b]
They are businessmen, right? Not the mafia.
[/QUOTE]
Ask a mafioso what he is and he'll probably say 'businessman'. Heh.
ParisNair
[QUOTE][b]YourValentine wrote:
[/b]A lot of judgement in this post....
How can you say that Freddie brought his death on himself at a time when nobody knew about AIDS and the worst thing you could get by unprotected sex was syphilis which was easily treatable. We do not know how he would have behaved if he had known about AIDS in the late 70s/early 80s but it's easy to put a verdict 20 years later. [/QUOTE]
My apologies if my comments sound offensive or disrespectful. I love our Freddie as much as anyone else on this forum. I became a fan of Queen after Freddie died, infact I did not know Queen existed in 1991. In a way I'm thankful for that becuase I'm a very emotional person and if Michael Jackson's death shook me and go numb for a few days, our Freddie's death would have made me go into deep depression.
Probably you are right in saying that my post is judgemental, but I saw it as fact. I'm sure I have read somewhere that in the mid-80s when AIDS was becoming "popular" as a deathly disease inflicting the gay people Freddie made the comment "I'm f*ing everyone and anyone" in the context that he was not taking any extra precautions or safety measures to avoid getting infected. And also, that often he would have a panic attack in the bathroom after a session and then scrub himslef vigorously, as if he could wash away the virus if it was in him. I'm 100% sure I read these things through some credible source, and I'd say he did not particularly try not to catch the virus. Anyway, if anyone is responsible for our Freddie's early departure from earth, its God and Freddie himself.
[/b]A lot of judgement in this post....
How can you say that Freddie brought his death on himself at a time when nobody knew about AIDS and the worst thing you could get by unprotected sex was syphilis which was easily treatable. We do not know how he would have behaved if he had known about AIDS in the late 70s/early 80s but it's easy to put a verdict 20 years later. [/QUOTE]
My apologies if my comments sound offensive or disrespectful. I love our Freddie as much as anyone else on this forum. I became a fan of Queen after Freddie died, infact I did not know Queen existed in 1991. In a way I'm thankful for that becuase I'm a very emotional person and if Michael Jackson's death shook me and go numb for a few days, our Freddie's death would have made me go into deep depression.
Probably you are right in saying that my post is judgemental, but I saw it as fact. I'm sure I have read somewhere that in the mid-80s when AIDS was becoming "popular" as a deathly disease inflicting the gay people Freddie made the comment "I'm f*ing everyone and anyone" in the context that he was not taking any extra precautions or safety measures to avoid getting infected. And also, that often he would have a panic attack in the bathroom after a session and then scrub himslef vigorously, as if he could wash away the virus if it was in him. I'm 100% sure I read these things through some credible source, and I'd say he did not particularly try not to catch the virus. Anyway, if anyone is responsible for our Freddie's early departure from earth, its God and Freddie himself.
ParisNair
[QUOTE][b]YourValentine wrote[/b]:
It was not the fault of the organizers of the London shows that Michael Jackson was bankrupt. It's their job to organize concerts and to make money from them. Also, Michael Jackson did not die from facing 50 London concerts, he died from an overdose of narcotics which should not have been given to him at home. Certainly MJ was surrounded by lots of people who wanted to take advantage of him but his death was the result of a many unfortunate events and you really cannot lay the blame on concert promoters.
Back to topic: if I were a fan of MJ I would definitely go and see the movie and I would not care who makes money out of it. Since I am not a fan I am not interested to see the movie and that is all there is to it. Let his fans enjoy the movie, they did not have many opportunities to see MJ in the last years, anyway.[/QUOTE]
Michael might have died from a drug overdose, but that's like saying a man stabbed in the heart dies of cardiac-arrest.
My point was that for sure the mpvie wil have to show that Micheal was very enthusiastic about the concerts and could not wait to get on the stage in London. Probably they'd have some interviews to prove it too. However, the reality may be somehting different, and the makers of this movie cannot afford to show this.
It was not the fault of the organizers of the London shows that Michael Jackson was bankrupt. It's their job to organize concerts and to make money from them. Also, Michael Jackson did not die from facing 50 London concerts, he died from an overdose of narcotics which should not have been given to him at home. Certainly MJ was surrounded by lots of people who wanted to take advantage of him but his death was the result of a many unfortunate events and you really cannot lay the blame on concert promoters.
Back to topic: if I were a fan of MJ I would definitely go and see the movie and I would not care who makes money out of it. Since I am not a fan I am not interested to see the movie and that is all there is to it. Let his fans enjoy the movie, they did not have many opportunities to see MJ in the last years, anyway.[/QUOTE]
Michael might have died from a drug overdose, but that's like saying a man stabbed in the heart dies of cardiac-arrest.
My point was that for sure the mpvie wil have to show that Micheal was very enthusiastic about the concerts and could not wait to get on the stage in London. Probably they'd have some interviews to prove it too. However, the reality may be somehting different, and the makers of this movie cannot afford to show this.
mike hunt
[QUOTE]
[b]Mr.Jingles wrote: [/b]
Part of me is extremely curious to see this, and the other part of me finds that it would be wrong to fill in the pockets of AEG executives even more, after they pushed Michael Jackson to play 50 dates when he wasn't physically capable to do so, and only took advantage of his humongous debt. Now they are trying to capitalize on the gigantic global interest on MJ after his death, and they will do anything to squeeze every single penny from his fans.
Don't get me wrong, I will admit that Michael Jackson was possibly the one who was the most to blame for getting himself into so much debt and the whole drug addicting mess that ended his life. However, I also believe that a lot of people exploited him when he was put in a weak position, and that's just wrong.
[/QUOTE]
It's his own fault for letting those leaches into his life!....michael and mike tyson share the same type of stories. Tyson admits he's the one too blame because he let in those leaches who sucked everything out of him. Also, let's not make michael out to be a saint. He loved spending money, and in the end it bit him in the fanny........ What did freddie say?...."all my mistakes are on me" pretty much sums it up.
[b]Mr.Jingles wrote: [/b]
Part of me is extremely curious to see this, and the other part of me finds that it would be wrong to fill in the pockets of AEG executives even more, after they pushed Michael Jackson to play 50 dates when he wasn't physically capable to do so, and only took advantage of his humongous debt. Now they are trying to capitalize on the gigantic global interest on MJ after his death, and they will do anything to squeeze every single penny from his fans.
Don't get me wrong, I will admit that Michael Jackson was possibly the one who was the most to blame for getting himself into so much debt and the whole drug addicting mess that ended his life. However, I also believe that a lot of people exploited him when he was put in a weak position, and that's just wrong.
[/QUOTE]
It's his own fault for letting those leaches into his life!....michael and mike tyson share the same type of stories. Tyson admits he's the one too blame because he let in those leaches who sucked everything out of him. Also, let's not make michael out to be a saint. He loved spending money, and in the end it bit him in the fanny........ What did freddie say?...."all my mistakes are on me" pretty much sums it up.
john bodega
Right on. I think MJ had the odds against him when you look at his formative years but ultimately one's life is their own business and if they don't fix it themselves, you can't blame anyone else.
[/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]Though you can certainly call the hangers-on and yes-men on the bullshit that they do...[/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]Though you can certainly call the hangers-on and yes-men on the bullshit that they do...[/QUOTE]
Mr.Jingles
[QUOTE]
[b]Lisser wrote: [/b]
There are a group of fans that claim they were close to him during the last few weeks of his life, gathering outside of the rehearsals, etc. They claim he talked to them and brought them inside to watch and they all say how frail and thin he was. They also say he did not want to do 50 shows at all and he said it was "killing him." They even have a website called "This is not it." I read their testimonies but you just don't know what you can and can't believe. I choose to just listen to the music and watch him perform. It's all you can do as a fan....I don't judge.[/QUOTE]
Given that Michael was such a reclusive individual, I find it hard to believe that anyone would be allowed to come in during rehearsals. Unless of course they are fans who knew him on a personal level way before.
[b]Lisser wrote: [/b]
There are a group of fans that claim they were close to him during the last few weeks of his life, gathering outside of the rehearsals, etc. They claim he talked to them and brought them inside to watch and they all say how frail and thin he was. They also say he did not want to do 50 shows at all and he said it was "killing him." They even have a website called "This is not it." I read their testimonies but you just don't know what you can and can't believe. I choose to just listen to the music and watch him perform. It's all you can do as a fan....I don't judge.[/QUOTE]
Given that Michael was such a reclusive individual, I find it hard to believe that anyone would be allowed to come in during rehearsals. Unless of course they are fans who knew him on a personal level way before.
Mr.Jingles
[QUOTE]
[b]YourValentine wrote: [/b]
They are businessmen, right? Not the mafia.
[/QUOTE]
Many times businessmen operate like the mafia. I mean, look at AIG!
I'm don't want to stereotype by saying that all heads of corporations and business managers are greedy, corrupt, and sleazy, but the truth is that many of them want to profit at the sole expense of their own benefit, and they are willing to exploit anyone to get their way.
I mean, look at the history of artists who have been robbed by their management, and that includes Queen's experience with Trident. The reason why artists fall into the trap is because they know nothing about business.
[b]YourValentine wrote: [/b]
They are businessmen, right? Not the mafia.
[/QUOTE]
Many times businessmen operate like the mafia. I mean, look at AIG!
I'm don't want to stereotype by saying that all heads of corporations and business managers are greedy, corrupt, and sleazy, but the truth is that many of them want to profit at the sole expense of their own benefit, and they are willing to exploit anyone to get their way.
I mean, look at the history of artists who have been robbed by their management, and that includes Queen's experience with Trident. The reason why artists fall into the trap is because they know nothing about business.
YourValentine
[QUOTE]
[b]ParisNair wrote: [/b]
[QUOTE][b]YourValentine wrote:
[/b]A lot of judgement in this post....
How can you say that Freddie brought his death on himself at a time when nobody knew about AIDS and the worst thing you could get by unprotected sex was syphilis which was easily treatable. We do not know how he would have behaved if he had known about AIDS in the late 70s/early 80s but it's easy to put a verdict 20 years later. [/QUOTE]
My apologies if my comments sound offensive or disrespectful. I love our Freddie as much as anyone else on this forum. I became a fan of Queen after Freddie died, infact I did not know Queen existed in 1991. In a way I'm thankful for that becuase I'm a very emotional person and if Michael Jackson's death shook me and go numb for a few days, our Freddie's death would have made me go into deep depression.
Probably you are right in saying that my post is judgemental, but I saw it as fact. I'm sure I have read somewhere that in the mid-80s when AIDS was becoming "popular" as a deathly disease inflicting the gay people Freddie made the comment "I'm f*ing everyone and anyone" in the context that he was not taking any extra precautions or safety measures to avoid getting infected. And also, that often he would have a panic attack in the bathroom after a session and then scrub himslef vigorously, as if he could wash away the virus if it was in him. I'm 100% sure I read these things through some credible source, and I'd say he did not particularly try not to catch the virus. Anyway, if anyone is responsible for our Freddie's early departure from earth, its God and Freddie himself.
[/QUOTE]
First of all there is no need to apologise for voicing your opinion. It's funny how you suggest that the drug overdose was not the immediate cause of MJ's death ( I agree that many other events added up leading
to Michael's death) but you are so sure about Freddie being responsible for his illness and consecutive death. It's obvious that Freddie had probably not contracted HIV had he not been gay. The fact that he had numerous sexual contacts increased the danger to get the virus. However, it was not his fault that he caught the virus at a time when the general public was totally unaware of the dangers of unprotected sex. Let's not forget that AIDS is a viral infection with a retro virus that takes up to ten years to develop the first symptoms. At the time when the first tests were available (1985) sexually active gay men were either unlucky or lucky, i.e. infected (Freddie) or not infected (Elton John). I have witnessed people die of AIDS and they did not have the choice. They caught a vicious virus at a time when nobody was aware of it and they were not irresponsible, reckless people - they were just unluckily living between the time when AIDS had not yet spread and the time when the public was well informed and able to protect themselves.
Now a lot has been said about Freddie's sexual activities post 1985 when he could have known that he was probably a danger for other people. There has been a lot of finger pointing about who gave the virus to whom - mainly by people who have no business whatsoever except for being curious about the scandal in the life of a celebrity. Most likely there was careless behaviour between Freddie and his post 1985 lovers but they were all adults and it was their own business and IMO not for us or anyone else to pass judgment on them after over 20 years. It is well possible that they closed their eyes and did not face the unspeakable until they really had to.
[b]ParisNair wrote: [/b]
[QUOTE][b]YourValentine wrote:
[/b]A lot of judgement in this post....
How can you say that Freddie brought his death on himself at a time when nobody knew about AIDS and the worst thing you could get by unprotected sex was syphilis which was easily treatable. We do not know how he would have behaved if he had known about AIDS in the late 70s/early 80s but it's easy to put a verdict 20 years later. [/QUOTE]
My apologies if my comments sound offensive or disrespectful. I love our Freddie as much as anyone else on this forum. I became a fan of Queen after Freddie died, infact I did not know Queen existed in 1991. In a way I'm thankful for that becuase I'm a very emotional person and if Michael Jackson's death shook me and go numb for a few days, our Freddie's death would have made me go into deep depression.
Probably you are right in saying that my post is judgemental, but I saw it as fact. I'm sure I have read somewhere that in the mid-80s when AIDS was becoming "popular" as a deathly disease inflicting the gay people Freddie made the comment "I'm f*ing everyone and anyone" in the context that he was not taking any extra precautions or safety measures to avoid getting infected. And also, that often he would have a panic attack in the bathroom after a session and then scrub himslef vigorously, as if he could wash away the virus if it was in him. I'm 100% sure I read these things through some credible source, and I'd say he did not particularly try not to catch the virus. Anyway, if anyone is responsible for our Freddie's early departure from earth, its God and Freddie himself.
[/QUOTE]
First of all there is no need to apologise for voicing your opinion. It's funny how you suggest that the drug overdose was not the immediate cause of MJ's death ( I agree that many other events added up leading
to Michael's death) but you are so sure about Freddie being responsible for his illness and consecutive death. It's obvious that Freddie had probably not contracted HIV had he not been gay. The fact that he had numerous sexual contacts increased the danger to get the virus. However, it was not his fault that he caught the virus at a time when the general public was totally unaware of the dangers of unprotected sex. Let's not forget that AIDS is a viral infection with a retro virus that takes up to ten years to develop the first symptoms. At the time when the first tests were available (1985) sexually active gay men were either unlucky or lucky, i.e. infected (Freddie) or not infected (Elton John). I have witnessed people die of AIDS and they did not have the choice. They caught a vicious virus at a time when nobody was aware of it and they were not irresponsible, reckless people - they were just unluckily living between the time when AIDS had not yet spread and the time when the public was well informed and able to protect themselves.
Now a lot has been said about Freddie's sexual activities post 1985 when he could have known that he was probably a danger for other people. There has been a lot of finger pointing about who gave the virus to whom - mainly by people who have no business whatsoever except for being curious about the scandal in the life of a celebrity. Most likely there was careless behaviour between Freddie and his post 1985 lovers but they were all adults and it was their own business and IMO not for us or anyone else to pass judgment on them after over 20 years. It is well possible that they closed their eyes and did not face the unspeakable until they really had to.
YourValentine
[QUOTE]
[b]Mr.Jingles wrote: [/b]
[QUOTE]
[b]YourValentine wrote: [/b]
They are businessmen, right? Not the mafia.
[/QUOTE]
Many times businessmen operate like the mafia. I mean, look at AIG!
I'm don't want to stereotype by saying that all heads of corporations and business managers are greedy, corrupt, and sleazy, but the truth is that many of them want to profit at the sole expense of their own benefit, and they are willing to exploit anyone to get their way.
I mean, look at the history of artists who have been robbed by their management, and that includes Queen's experience with Trident. The reason why artists fall into the trap is because they know nothing about business.
[/QUOTE]
I agree with your general opinion about the music business. I just think that the concert promoters surely tried to make a lot of money with the MJ concerts and had little sympathy for the artist but they definitely did not kill him.
[b]Mr.Jingles wrote: [/b]
[QUOTE]
[b]YourValentine wrote: [/b]
They are businessmen, right? Not the mafia.
[/QUOTE]
Many times businessmen operate like the mafia. I mean, look at AIG!
I'm don't want to stereotype by saying that all heads of corporations and business managers are greedy, corrupt, and sleazy, but the truth is that many of them want to profit at the sole expense of their own benefit, and they are willing to exploit anyone to get their way.
I mean, look at the history of artists who have been robbed by their management, and that includes Queen's experience with Trident. The reason why artists fall into the trap is because they know nothing about business.
[/QUOTE]
I agree with your general opinion about the music business. I just think that the concert promoters surely tried to make a lot of money with the MJ concerts and had little sympathy for the artist but they definitely did not kill him.
ParisNair
[QUOTE][b]YourValentine wrote:[/b]
First of all there is no need to apologise for voicing your opinion. It's funny how you suggest that the drug overdose was not the immediate cause of MJ's death ( I agree that many other events added up leading
to Michael's death) but you are so sure about Freddie being responsible for his illness and consecutive death. It's obvious that Freddie had probably not contracted HIV had he not been gay. The fact that he had numerous sexual contacts increased the danger to get the virus. However, it was not his fault that he caught the virus at a time when the general public was totally unaware of the dangers of unprotected sex. Let's not forget that AIDS is a viral infection with a retro virus that takes up to ten years to develop the first symptoms. At the time when the first tests were available (1985) sexually active gay men were either unlucky or lucky, i.e. infected (Freddie) or not infected (Elton John). I have witnessed people die of AIDS and they did not have the choice. They caught a vicious virus at a time when nobody was aware of it and they were not irresponsible, reckless people - they were just unluckily living between the time when AIDS had not yet spread and the time when the public was well informed and able to protect themselves.
Now a lot has been said about Freddie's sexual activities post 1985 when he could have known that he was probably a danger for other people. There has been a lot of finger pointing about who gave the virus to whom - mainly by people who have no business whatsoever except for being curious about the scandal in the life of a celebrity. Most likely there was careless behaviour between Freddie and his post 1985 lovers but they were all adults and it was their own business and IMO not for us or anyone else to pass judgment on them after over 20 years. It is well possible that they closed their eyes and did not face the unspeakable until they really had to.[/QUOTE]
While I understand the above comments, my point of view is that our Freddie paid the price (unknowingly, ofcourse) for the lifestyle he chose for himnself (I'm talking about his promiscuity, not homosexuality), of his own free will. MJ, on the other hand, was a victim of circumstances. I guess that's what I've been trying to say all along.
First of all there is no need to apologise for voicing your opinion. It's funny how you suggest that the drug overdose was not the immediate cause of MJ's death ( I agree that many other events added up leading
to Michael's death) but you are so sure about Freddie being responsible for his illness and consecutive death. It's obvious that Freddie had probably not contracted HIV had he not been gay. The fact that he had numerous sexual contacts increased the danger to get the virus. However, it was not his fault that he caught the virus at a time when the general public was totally unaware of the dangers of unprotected sex. Let's not forget that AIDS is a viral infection with a retro virus that takes up to ten years to develop the first symptoms. At the time when the first tests were available (1985) sexually active gay men were either unlucky or lucky, i.e. infected (Freddie) or not infected (Elton John). I have witnessed people die of AIDS and they did not have the choice. They caught a vicious virus at a time when nobody was aware of it and they were not irresponsible, reckless people - they were just unluckily living between the time when AIDS had not yet spread and the time when the public was well informed and able to protect themselves.
Now a lot has been said about Freddie's sexual activities post 1985 when he could have known that he was probably a danger for other people. There has been a lot of finger pointing about who gave the virus to whom - mainly by people who have no business whatsoever except for being curious about the scandal in the life of a celebrity. Most likely there was careless behaviour between Freddie and his post 1985 lovers but they were all adults and it was their own business and IMO not for us or anyone else to pass judgment on them after over 20 years. It is well possible that they closed their eyes and did not face the unspeakable until they really had to.[/QUOTE]
While I understand the above comments, my point of view is that our Freddie paid the price (unknowingly, ofcourse) for the lifestyle he chose for himnself (I'm talking about his promiscuity, not homosexuality), of his own free will. MJ, on the other hand, was a victim of circumstances. I guess that's what I've been trying to say all along.
Mr.Jingles
This whole talk about Freddie contracting AIDS made me think of a silly quote from 'Family Guy':
[b]"In 1956 AIDS didn't exist yet. AIDS was invented many years later by the government in order to get rid of the homosexual population"[/b]
Silly as it seems, I wouldn't be surprised if some extremist U.S. government insider (of which there have been many and still we have some) wanted to create a virus to kill homosexuals. I know we can't believe 100% on conspiracy theories, but it makes me wonder why a virus would target specifically homosexuals and not so much a broader heterosexual population.
[b]"In 1956 AIDS didn't exist yet. AIDS was invented many years later by the government in order to get rid of the homosexual population"[/b]
Silly as it seems, I wouldn't be surprised if some extremist U.S. government insider (of which there have been many and still we have some) wanted to create a virus to kill homosexuals. I know we can't believe 100% on conspiracy theories, but it makes me wonder why a virus would target specifically homosexuals and not so much a broader heterosexual population.
mike hunt
[QUOTE]
[b]ParisNair wrote: [/b]
[QUOTE][b]YourValentine wrote:[/b]
First of all there is no need to apologise for voicing your opinion. It's funny how you suggest that the drug overdose was not the immediate cause of MJ's death ( I agree that many other events added up leading
to Michael's death) but you are so sure about Freddie being responsible for his illness and consecutive death. It's obvious that Freddie had probably not contracted HIV had he not been gay. The fact that he had numerous sexual contacts increased the danger to get the virus. However, it was not his fault that he caught the virus at a time when the general public was totally unaware of the dangers of unprotected sex. Let's not forget that AIDS is a viral infection with a retro virus that takes up to ten years to develop the first symptoms. At the time when the first tests were available (1985) sexually active gay men were either unlucky or lucky, i.e. infected (Freddie) or not infected (Elton John). I have witnessed people die of AIDS and they did not have the choice. They caught a vicious virus at a time when nobody was aware of it and they were not irresponsible, reckless people - they were just unluckily living between the time when AIDS had not yet spread and the time when the public was well informed and able to protect themselves.
Now a lot has been said about Freddie's sexual activities post 1985 when he could have known that he was probably a danger for other people. There has been a lot of finger pointing about who gave the virus to whom - mainly by people who have no business whatsoever except for being curious about the scandal in the life of a celebrity. Most likely there was careless behaviour between Freddie and his post 1985 lovers but they were all adults and it was their own business and IMO not for us or anyone else to pass judgment on them after over 20 years. It is well possible that they closed their eyes and did not face the unspeakable until they really had to.[/QUOTE]
While I understand the above comments, my point of view is that our Freddie paid the price (unknowingly, ofcourse) for the lifestyle he chose for himnself (I'm talking about his promiscuity, not homosexuality), of his own free will. MJ, on the other hand, was a victim of circumstances. I guess that's what I've been trying to say all along.[/QUOTE]
I disagree!....Remember michael was a drug addict. popping pills like it's going out of style. Don't you think all those pills have a negative effect on the heart?....has anyone been charged with murder?......In freddie's case, By 1985 people knew about aids. freddie and his friends should have known better. I'm not being Judging, I'm Just being real. All our mistakes come down to us. god knows I'v made some fucking big ones. No Exuses!....
[b]ParisNair wrote: [/b]
[QUOTE][b]YourValentine wrote:[/b]
First of all there is no need to apologise for voicing your opinion. It's funny how you suggest that the drug overdose was not the immediate cause of MJ's death ( I agree that many other events added up leading
to Michael's death) but you are so sure about Freddie being responsible for his illness and consecutive death. It's obvious that Freddie had probably not contracted HIV had he not been gay. The fact that he had numerous sexual contacts increased the danger to get the virus. However, it was not his fault that he caught the virus at a time when the general public was totally unaware of the dangers of unprotected sex. Let's not forget that AIDS is a viral infection with a retro virus that takes up to ten years to develop the first symptoms. At the time when the first tests were available (1985) sexually active gay men were either unlucky or lucky, i.e. infected (Freddie) or not infected (Elton John). I have witnessed people die of AIDS and they did not have the choice. They caught a vicious virus at a time when nobody was aware of it and they were not irresponsible, reckless people - they were just unluckily living between the time when AIDS had not yet spread and the time when the public was well informed and able to protect themselves.
Now a lot has been said about Freddie's sexual activities post 1985 when he could have known that he was probably a danger for other people. There has been a lot of finger pointing about who gave the virus to whom - mainly by people who have no business whatsoever except for being curious about the scandal in the life of a celebrity. Most likely there was careless behaviour between Freddie and his post 1985 lovers but they were all adults and it was their own business and IMO not for us or anyone else to pass judgment on them after over 20 years. It is well possible that they closed their eyes and did not face the unspeakable until they really had to.[/QUOTE]
While I understand the above comments, my point of view is that our Freddie paid the price (unknowingly, ofcourse) for the lifestyle he chose for himnself (I'm talking about his promiscuity, not homosexuality), of his own free will. MJ, on the other hand, was a victim of circumstances. I guess that's what I've been trying to say all along.[/QUOTE]
I disagree!....Remember michael was a drug addict. popping pills like it's going out of style. Don't you think all those pills have a negative effect on the heart?....has anyone been charged with murder?......In freddie's case, By 1985 people knew about aids. freddie and his friends should have known better. I'm not being Judging, I'm Just being real. All our mistakes come down to us. god knows I'v made some fucking big ones. No Exuses!....
ParisNair
[QUOTE][b]mike hunt wrote:
[/b]I disagree!....Remember michael was a drug addict. popping pills like it's going out of style. Don't you think all those pills have a negative effect on the heart?....has anyone been charged with murder?......In freddie's case, By 1985 people knew about aids. freddie and his friends should have known better. I'm not being Judging, I'm Just being real. All our mistakes come down to us. god knows I'v made some fucking big ones. No Exuses!....[/QUOTE]
Didn't Michael and our Freddie's friendship suffer when MJ came to know of the latter's cocaine use?
Michael's addiction was for precription drugs. Michael started taking drugs because of the physical pain he suffered. He started with pain killers after the burn incident in late 80s and then moved on to otehr drugs prescribed by his doctors. Probably by the time he realised his dependencs on these drugs, he was addicted.
You could argue that he was responsible for the addiction himself, and you'd be right. But Michael, IMO, did not have the ability to think straight in regular matters and could not make decisions for himself in life becuase his life was controlled through-out by other people, right from childhood. In the Oprah interview in the 90s he said his father still scared the shit out of him.
On another note, there are some psychiatrists who believe that Michael suffered from a mental illness called "alienation of the existential self" which apparently affects many afro-americans.
I'm with you when you say no excuses can be offered for the screw-ups in our own lives.
[/b]I disagree!....Remember michael was a drug addict. popping pills like it's going out of style. Don't you think all those pills have a negative effect on the heart?....has anyone been charged with murder?......In freddie's case, By 1985 people knew about aids. freddie and his friends should have known better. I'm not being Judging, I'm Just being real. All our mistakes come down to us. god knows I'v made some fucking big ones. No Exuses!....[/QUOTE]
Didn't Michael and our Freddie's friendship suffer when MJ came to know of the latter's cocaine use?
Michael's addiction was for precription drugs. Michael started taking drugs because of the physical pain he suffered. He started with pain killers after the burn incident in late 80s and then moved on to otehr drugs prescribed by his doctors. Probably by the time he realised his dependencs on these drugs, he was addicted.
You could argue that he was responsible for the addiction himself, and you'd be right. But Michael, IMO, did not have the ability to think straight in regular matters and could not make decisions for himself in life becuase his life was controlled through-out by other people, right from childhood. In the Oprah interview in the 90s he said his father still scared the shit out of him.
On another note, there are some psychiatrists who believe that Michael suffered from a mental illness called "alienation of the existential self" which apparently affects many afro-americans.
I'm with you when you say no excuses can be offered for the screw-ups in our own lives.