Hot space album is actually not bad

Never in my life did I think I'd pull this counter out on a Queen forum, BUT....

> It is absolutely and completely impossible to say anything truly objective about anything, least of all a work of art

>>So, is 2+2=4 subjective? For the record I'm not saying it is, and I'm not saying it isn't, but I'm interested in your take on it.

Well, that's assuming you're using the more common decimal system of mathmatics, which is base 10. The less-common, but scientifically valid Ternary (base 3) numeral system would read more like:

2 + 2 = 11 

Sometimes, everything is not as it seems, huh? :-)

And indeed that was quite the answer I was looking for. However, it's still an objective answer. In decimal system, 2+2=4, full stop. In binary system, 1+1=10, full stop. In hexadecimal, 9+2=b (IIRC), full stop.

Some things [i]are[/i] black or white.

Things like 'is [i]Hot Space[/i] a good album?' or 'was it a good decision?' are subjective and there are no right or wrong answers.

Things like 'who wrote more songs for [i]Hot Space[/i]?' and 'did Deacy have more performing input than Brian?' are measurable and [i]do[/i] have right or wrong answers.

Which leads me to my main point: something loads of people mistakenly believe is that [i]Hot Space[/i] was a John + Freddie thing. And it wasn't: while Freddie was the dominant songwriter and he probably had a lot to do with the style (shocking) swerve, John had [i]less[/i] input on the album (physically speaking, not in metaphysical ambiguous terms) than Brian or Roger. And that [i]can[/i] be measured.

We've got one Brian-less song vs no Roger-less songs vs two John-less songs; one song with little playing from Brian vs no songs with little playing from Roger vs two/three songs with little playing from John; we've got no songs without guitar vs three songs without human bass. And so on.

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[b]master marathon runner wrote: [/b]

Hot Space is a delightful little album, never understood the bemoaning. I'm continually shocked by criticism of 'The Works' on Queenzone, always regarded it as Queen at a very high standard .' Radio Ga Ga,' ' Keep passing the open Windows', 'Machines' ,' Is This the World we Created', a track performed live to the world ! , .Sorry, but Queen were comfortably coasting here.Perhaps it proves i am truly a Queen fan.

Master Marathon Runner 
[/QUOTE]
The works isn't as bad as queenzoner's make it out to be......Radio Ga ga and break free has stood the test of time...it's a hard life is a personal favorite of mine.  Hammer to fall is good, though live it's much better.  machines is pretty good...keep passing the open windows I alway's liked.  Is this the world we created?....very nice, both studio and live.  that leaves me with 2 songs I don't like,  man on the prowl, and tear it up.  A freddie and brian song, that's very rare for me.   Of course the album isn't on par with the golden era. (the first 8 albums) or Innuendo,  but it's still pretty good.

The last two or three years, Hot Space has been the Queen record I've listened to most. It's a lot of fun!

>>Seb: So, because I disagree with you I'm 'locked'? I completely respect your POV and have absolutely no interest in making you change it, as there's nothing wrong with it.



 

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I do respect your opinion and always have, despite disagreeing with it on certain points. One reason I come in hard sometimes is that not as many people have thought their positions out and because our points of view differ in places, it's of benefit, particularly to new fans, to see all views intelligently. Too many posts here are of the "it sucks!" or "it rocks!" type, which is boring. Please excuse me if I seemed to be picking a fight. You do present a position worth considering and I hope you and others think the same of my posts.

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[b]Sebastian wrote: [/b]

Multitracking existed since mid-50's. It was not new.

[/QUOTE]
The first multitrack - recorders were invented in the mid to late fifties. But it took more than a decade until they had reached a certain standard and found their ways into the recording studios. Even the Beatles recorded most of their stuff on 4 track. It was in 1968, that EMI slowly upgraded to 8-track. And this was a leading studio in England!
So whether you like it or not, multitracking in the way Queen and many of their contemporaries made use of
wasn't possible before.

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[b]DanCorson wrote: [/b]

The last two or three years, Hot Space has been the Queen record I've listened to most. It's a lot of fun!
[/QUOTE]





I find myself blasting hot space on long drives.

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[b]rhyeking wrote: [/b]

Never in my life did I think I'd pull this counter out on a Queen forum, BUT....

> It is absolutely and completely impossible to say anything truly objective about anything, least of all a work of art

>>So, is 2+2=4 subjective? For the record I'm not saying it is, and I'm not saying it isn't, but I'm interested in your take on it.

Well, that's assuming you're using the more common decimal system of mathmatics, which is base 10. The less-common, but scientifically valid Ternary (base 3) numeral system would read more like:

2 + 2 = 11 

Sometimes, everything is not as it seems, huh? :-)[/QUOTE]
Not necessarily. "2+2=4" is subjective, in that it depends on the point of view of the observer (subject). Numerous conditions exist where 2+2 do not equal 4. Non-decimal systems, as you propose, are one approach, non-linear (for example, logarithmic) series are another. An entirely different, but equally valid, approach from a purely logical standpoint is to write that "2+2=22", as that avoids the creation of a new sign ex nihilo, and is thus technically simpler.

> Even the Beatles recorded most of their stuff on 4 track.

And on 4 track, multi-tracking was possible.

> It was in 1968, that EMI slowly upgraded to 8-track. And this was a leading studio in England!

Trident had done it before.

> So whether you like it or not, multitracking in the way Queen and many of their contemporaries made use of  wasn't possible before.

Multitracking 'in the wat Queen et al made use of' wasn't EASILY possible before, but it WAS possible. By the way, my point was that multi-tracking already existed, not about multi-tracking on 24 or 32.

It's like somebody saying 'cars were new in 1998'. No, they weren't: they existed for a while before that. 'Whether you like it or not, Ferrari F300 was first used in 1998'. Sure, but it doesn't mean cars did not exist before.

Same here: before early-to-mid 70's, people didn't use 24- or 32-track tapes. But it doesn't mean multi-tracking didn't exist.

> Numerous conditions exist where 2+2 do not equal 4. Non-decimal systems, as you propose, are one approach, non-linear (for example, logarithmic) series are another. An entirely different, but equally valid, approach from a purely logical standpoint is to write that "2+2=22", as that avoids the creation of a new sign ex nihilo, and is thus technically simpler.

Indeed, but then again, in decimal system and having 2+2 as a non-polynomial addition (or having both '2' as units rather than '2E3 + 2E2', for instance), there IS a straight answer. Of course, those factors are already arranged by a subject so you could call them subjective, but the thing is, there IS a straight answer.

For things like 'is [i]Hot Space[/i] good?', there's not a right or wrong answer, as it depends on taste. For 'was [i]Hot Space[/i] released in 1982?', there IS a right answer (once it's established how 1982 is counted and according to which parametres). So, again, Brian DID participate a lot on that album as ALL of the songs have guitars (unless of course you're using a different language where 'guitar' means 'trumpet'), while THREE songs (unless you count in binaries, in which case it's 11) have no real (human) bass.

I've just thrown up in my own mouth.

LOL
  I have given my opinion on several topics on queens sinking popularity from hot space till the reemergance of their iconic status in 92 here in the states, first off hot space was an experimental (thats me being kind describing in my opinion ) album it did have a few stellar moments put out the fire life is real basically side two, you see here in the states in the 80s and 90s rock music was catagorized unlike in great britain ive heard broadcasts of capital one radio
during a block of music in london i had heard a human league song than immediatly following that an iron maiden song
that was unheard of here in the states you would have current rock metal stations and new wave punk new romantic stations and pop top 40 stations that included a poppier  track of all geners
  queen built their reputation here in the states as a rock band that was the best live band on the planet which stands true to this very day, and disco in 82 was dead but the funny thing was madonna was just about to release her debut self titled album and my sister had purchased the LP and i heard her playing it and screamed what the fuck disco is that
she said its not disco its "dance music"  to me it sounded like a disco collection from the late 70s and still does
  now rock fans especially queens fans loved queen for their sheer live performances and even in 82 they sold out most their rock n america tour they certainly did here in LA i went to two of their four shows in the greater LA area
and if they would of toured to support the works in america im certain it would of exceeded the hot space tour and have assisted the works to be in the top five albums in billboard
and by the way THE WORKS IS A BRILLIANT ALBUM

Someone raised a good point a while back that simply changing the running order of Hot Space would've made for a better album. I agree with that, to a point. However, the album's main failing isn that it doesn't have any stand-out songs like Somebody To Love. It's Late, Liar etc.* It's all pretty average stuff, and in any event, others were doing the funk thang much better than  Queen..

*Under Pressure is probably the one song that has the Queen mojo. Staying Power's a distant second place.

I'm coming to accept that arguing over the merits of Queen's various albums in this fourm can be like arguing over who has the best imaginary friend. No matter how we try to qualify and quantify our positions, they just aren't going to see it.

And that's fine.

I think Hot Space is cool and The Works has enough balls to still kick ass after we're gone.

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[b]USQUEENFAN wrote: [/b]

LOL
  I have given my opinion on several topics on queens sinking popularity from hot space till the reemergance of their iconic status in 92 here in the states, first off hot space was an experimental (thats me being kind describing in my opinion ) album it did have a few stellar moments put out the fire life is real basically side two, you see here in the states in the 80s and 90s rock music was catagorized unlike in great britain ive heard broadcasts of capital one radio
during a block of music in london i had heard a human league song than immediatly following that an iron maiden song
that was unheard of here in the states you would have current rock metal stations and new wave punk new romantic stations and pop top 40 stations that included a poppier  track of all geners
  queen built their reputation here in the states as a rock band that was the best live band on the planet which stands true to this very day, and disco in 82 was dead but the funny thing was madonna was just about to release her debut self titled album and my sister had purchased the LP and i heard her playing it and screamed what the fuck disco is that
she said its not disco its "dance music"  to me it sounded like a disco collection from the late 70s and still does
  now rock fans especially queens fans loved queen for their sheer live performances and even in 82 they sold out most their rock n america tour they certainly did here in LA i went to two of their four shows in the greater LA area
and if they would of toured to support the works in america im certain it would of exceeded the hot space tour and have assisted the works to be in the top five albums in billboard
and by the way THE WORKS IS A BRILLIANT ALBUM[/QUOTE]


Wow, a US fan likes the works.  Nice to see.  i'm from NY and remember that time of the 80's,  and it's true. either you loved rock or disco, Not both.  i remember when hot space came out Queen fans couldn't believe they betrayed them.  They wern't crazy about AOBTD, but hot space was betrayal, lol.  Of course most of us as adults don't think like that anymore, so the album for me is a fun listen. nothing more or less.  The Works is overall stronger IMO.  A weaker version of the Game.

I thought The Game was boring. Songs like 'Don't Try Suicide' and 'Dragon Attack' are pretty boring. There's nothing really boring on The Works... but of course that's just my honest opinion.