By the way, [b]'Good Vibrations[/b]' also predates Queen's multi-tracking efforts.
[/QUOTE]
You got them! Haha! Brian Wilson was multi-tracking things before the members of Queen lost their virginities.
Sebastian · Member since
TBF, considering Roger's looks, he'd probably nailed more than one Cornish bird by the time he was fourteen (i.e. three years before 'Good Vibrations'). And Fred could've had a Catholic priest babysitting him too.
Winter Land Man · Member since
[QUOTE]
[b]Sebastian wrote: [/b]
TBF, considering Roger's looks, he'd probably nailed more than one Cornish bird by the time he was fourteen (i.e. three years before 'Good Vibrations'). And Fred could've had a Catholic priest babysitting him too.
[/QUOTE]
Haha, that's true. I did give it a good second thought when I realized that they aren't that much younger than Brian Wilson.
Amazon · Member since
[QUOTE]
[b]mooghead wrote: [/b]
[QUOTE]
[b]rhyeking wrote: [/b]
What inspired this direct in the band?
[/QUOTE]
Another One Bites The Dust is to blame.
[/QUOTE]
That's fine by me. AOBTD is IMO a masterpiece and one of Queen's best songs; I don't care which direction it inspired as long as Queen made it. :D
Soundfreak · Member since
[QUOTE]
[b]Sebastian wrote: [/b]
> Oh well...you don't want to understand it...
Of course I do. I understand the following:
* Queen still used loads of multi-tracking in [i]Hot Space[/i], rendering your 'Multitracking was no longer exciting' comment incorrect.
* Multi-tracking existed long before Queen, rendering your 'multitracking in the way Queen and many of their contemporaries made use of wasn't possible before' comment incorrect.
> But it took a more then a decade, until the first studios owned these machines
Sure, but when they did (mroe than a decade after Les Paul) it was still long before Queen.
> and it took even more years until multitracking became an art form and bands started to make heavy use of it.
Which still doesn't mean it was new. Beatles multitracked loads of things, so did the Beach Boys and several others, long before Queen even debuted.
> In the 60s for example multitracking was even seen by many artists as a betrayal as it could not be reproduced live on stage.
It still happens a lot in the 2010's. So? Queen weren't an act that cared about whether other people saw something as betrayal or not.
> I recommend you the book "Good Vibrations" by Mark Cunningham. It's a fantastic voyage into the history of recording.
By the way, 'Good Vibrations' also predates Queen's multi-tracking efforts.
[/QUOTE]
And yet you don't want to understand....
Between Les Paul and Brian May you won't find famous people in rock-music who multitracked one instrument dozens of times. And Les Paul also did the same treatment to Mary Fords voice.
People in rock music started to double track voices from Buddy Holly onwards - like the Beatles and the Beach Boys, but one singer building a complete choir was a thing of the 70s. You could not have done "Bohemian Rhapsody" or 10cc's "I'm not in love" in the 60s with four track. Impossible!
But anyway.....to end this fruitless discussion - believe what you like ;-)
mike hunt · Member since
[QUOTE]
[b]GratefulFan wrote: [/b]
[QUOTE]
[b]mike hunt wrote: [/b]
funny stuff..."[b]dogged them the rest of the decade[/b]" you know that some of queen's most popular songs were in the 80's don't you?.....you know Queen won best band of the 80's in england don't you?....you know most of their 80's albums peaked at #1 don't you?....Not bad for average music i must say, or maybe some people, or a lot of people actually think the 80's stuff is better than average....you know that is a possibility don't you?.....
[/QUOTE]
Yeah. It was late-ish and I was trying to wrap up the point and probably could have taken more care with that final part of it. I used 'popular perception' because in my head that made it different from 'critical perception' (because the critics pretty much always thought they were crap), but you're right - that does seem to dismiss the popularity/success of the music at the time in parts of the world.
However popular doesn't mean great, and better than average isn't much of a match against time. I think most of the 80's work was good in the same way that all kinds of music is good: slick, catchy, radio friendly - and ultimately destined to be nostalgia pieces languishing in collections, largely unplayed 10 years on. 20 or 25 albums hit number one every year and we don't keep piling them on top of an ever growing list of classics we can't imagine music history without. We filter and refilter and filter again, and the Queen songs that nobody would question have truly endured (by any measure) are virtually all from work that preceded Hot Space (always excepting the brilliant Under Pressure). Hot Space was the beginning of all that would eventually be judged as good, but not great, by processes and forces of the future.[/QUOTE]
It's funny that people alway's say 80's music is crap, but why is it still played 10, 25 years on?.....More popular today than it was back then......I think radio ga ga and who want to live forever?...... has stood the test of time really well....also, every band has a prime. the who was losing steam towards the end, the same for Zep. It's Just the way it is. It's not the musical direction the band took, except for maybe hot space. The fact is if they made another a day at the races in 1984 it wouldn't have worked. For one the band already did it, so they would have been copying themselves. Queen were also naturally changing, it wasn't forced...And it shows...Compare the normal sounding rock songs put out the fire,,,tear it up with tie your mother down and stone cold crazy. Not even close. Again...Compare "life is real" with Anything freddie did in the 70's. IF you keep doing the same thing over and over it gets stale. The best thing they did was change.
mike hunt · Member since
[QUOTE]
[b]rhyeking wrote: [/b]
[QUOTE]
[b]mooghead wrote: [/b]
[QUOTE]
[b]rhyeking wrote: [/b]
What inspired this direct in the band?
[/QUOTE]
Another One Bites The Dust is to blame.
[/QUOTE]
Well, yes, but there were other factors involved too. Freddie was doing the gay disco thing in Munich, which seemed to influence his pop-dance bent on this and Mr. Bad Guy. The band was in and out of the studio between South American tours for a year, which probably resulted somewhat in "Las Palabras." The band's relationship with Billy Squier almost certainly influenced them; listen to "Emotions In Motion" and tell me it doesn't have a resemblance to Hot Space material. Freddie's work with Michael Jackson can be traced to this period (and with the band, it was even earlier, as he pushed them to release "Dust" as a single). And most obviously, working with Bowie likely influenced them, even after he finished work on "Under Pressure." Bowie was between his Scary Monsters and Let's Dance albums, the latter being very pop-dance-funk laced.
[/QUOTE]
Let's not get in to this "freddie fault" bullshit. Of course freddie was a big part of the band, but the others had a say. John was obviously into it. roger alway's loves the new wave, dance stuff. for some reason people see roger as the rocker of the band, He was more new wave in the late 70's and 80's. Brian?....the rocker, though those rockers were getting stale in the early 80's. Also, keep in mind if it wasn't for freddie during the hot space era there wouldn't be a Queen. From what I heard freddie was the one who kept things going. The others were more occupied with the family, kids and all that.
rhyeking · Member since
Mike, nowhere in my post did I say it was "Freddie's fault". Besides, that implies a wrong doing which is exactly NOT my point. My point is I'm looking at factors which influenced the band during the period of '81-'82, when Hot Space was recorded. For the record, I like Hot Space. I recognize it wasn't their most commercial success, despite producing a #1 hit in the UK ("Under Pressure"), but I accept it for what it is and for me it represents yet another facet of a multi-talented band. By asking (among other questions in that original post) what influenced the band, I'm simply trying to broaden people's awareness of what goes into an album. Two ways you can appreciate an album (or and any piece of art) are a) what is the final product, knowing little to nothing about its history and creation? And b) what is its history, what influences did the artist expolore, exploit and experiment with? There are any number of other ways too, but those are two I use most often.
Amazon · Member since
[QUOTE]
[b]GratefulFan wrote: [/b]
[QUOTE]
[b]Amazon wrote: [/b]
I think that the Works is a good, but not great, album. [b]It has IMO one of Queen's best songs of the 80's in Keep Passing The Open Windows[/b], it has several other great songs.
[/QUOTE]
Except that Joe Jackson called that song Steppin' Out and did it way better 4 years earlier. ;)
[/QUOTE]
I just listened to Steppin' Out and I have to say that I disagree. I think that KPTOW is superior. It's not a perfect song, by any means (the whole 'love is all you need' isn't very original which has always really surprised me*), but I do think it's a terrific pop song.
Regarding whether or not Queen became an average group during the 80's, I think it's interesting as I agree and I disagree. I agree in the sense that I don't think Queen were as inventive in 1982-1989 as they were from 1973 to 1980. When I think of Queenian creativity and experimentation, I think of the 70's, rather than the 80's. However, I disagree because IMO the 80's still produced its fair share of classics. Excluding The Game, which until the 90's, was arguably Queen's last masterpiece, the 80's albums produced IMO the following classics:
Hot Space produced Staying Power, Put Out the Fire and Las Palabras de Amor, as well as Under Pressure which IMO is extremely overrated but is still a very good, if not great, song. I also think that Dancer is extremely underrated.
The Works produced KPTOW, Radio Gaga, I Want To Break Free, Hammer To Fall, Machines and Is This The World We Created.
A Kind of Magic produced Friends Will Be Friends, Who Wants To Live Forever (another extremely overrated song IMO) and Princes of the Universe.
The Miracle produced I Want It All and Was It All Worth It. One could also add Breakthru.
Not all of these songs are masterpieces, and one could debate where they stand against the best of Queen's 70's work, but when I look at the 80's (post-The Game), I think of these songs, and based on these songs, Queen during the 80's were IMO still extraordinary.
*This is off-topic, but the reason I remain surprised by the fact that 'love is all you need' in KPTOW isn't particularly original is because IMO Queen were among the greatest and most original lyricists of all time. Queenpedia made a comment that their lyrics were never anything to write home about. I passionately disagree with this.
rhyeking · Member since
Just throwing this out there, but "Keep Passing The Open Windows" was written for the film version of John Irving's "The Hotel New Hampshire." The lyrics are references to the book and its themes.
mike hunt · Member since
What's this joe jackson song?...is he saying freddie's song ripped his off?....I like KPTOW....The lryics except "love is all you need" I also like it musically, piano, drums, Guitar all sound nice.
rhyeking · Member since
"Stepping Out" by Joe Jackson is a good song. I especially like the piano. Before someone brought it up here, I never considered any similarities between "Windows" and "Stepping Out". Frankly, I still don't see any similarities beyond the superficial use of instruments. It's the same with people saying "The Invisible Man" sounds like Ray Parker, Jr.'s "Ghostbusters," which other people say sounds like "I Want A New Drug" by Huey Lewis And The News. Where does it end? Enough talented people write enough music, you'll get the odd passing similarity, I guess.
Another example is "Blockbuster" by Sweet and "The Jean Genie" by David Bowie, both of whom say it was pure coincidence.
mike hunt · Member since
[QUOTE]
[b]rhyeking wrote: [/b]
"Stepping Out" by Joe Jackson is a good song. I especially like the piano. Before someone brought it up here, I never considered any similarities between "Windows" and "Stepping Out". Frankly, I still don't see any similarities beyond the superficial use of instruments. It's the same with people saying "The Invisible Man" sounds like Ray Parker, Jr.'s "Ghostbusters," which other people say sounds like "I Want A New Drug" by Huey Lewis And The News. Where does it end? Enough talented people write enough music, you'll get the odd passing similarity, I guess.
Another example is "Blockbuster" by Sweet and "The Jean Genie" by David Bowie, both of whom say it was pure coincidence. [/QUOTE]
ok, i remember this song steppin out. A big hit in the 80's. I hear the similarity. Especially in the piano.
Winter Land Man · Member since
[QUOTE]
[b]mike hunt wrote: [/b]
[QUOTE]
[b]rhyeking wrote: [/b]
[QUOTE]
[b]mooghead wrote: [/b]
[QUOTE]
[b]rhyeking wrote: [/b]
What inspired this direct in the band?
[/QUOTE]
Another One Bites The Dust is to blame.
[/QUOTE]
Well, yes, but there were other factors involved too. Freddie was doing the gay disco thing in Munich, which seemed to influence his pop-dance bent on this and Mr. Bad Guy. The band was in and out of the studio between South American tours for a year, which probably resulted somewhat in "Las Palabras." The band's relationship with Billy Squier almost certainly influenced them; listen to "Emotions In Motion" and tell me it doesn't have a resemblance to Hot Space material. Freddie's work with Michael Jackson can be traced to this period (and with the band, it was even earlier, as he pushed them to release "Dust" as a single). And most obviously, working with Bowie likely influenced them, even after he finished work on "Under Pressure." Bowie was between his Scary Monsters and Let's Dance albums, the latter being very pop-dance-funk laced.
[/QUOTE]
Let's not get in to this "freddie fault" bullshit. Of course freddie was a big part of the band, but the others had a say. John was obviously into it. roger alway's loves the new wave, dance stuff. for some reason people see roger as the rocker of the band, He was more new wave in the late 70's and 80's. Brian?....the rocker, though those rockers were getting stale in the early 80's. Also, keep in mind if it wasn't for freddie during the hot space era there wouldn't be a Queen. From what I heard freddie was the one who kept things going. The others were more occupied with the family, kids and all that.
[/QUOTE]
Also, Freddie was in doing the gay scene in New York at the time of Hot Space.
mike hunt · Member since
[QUOTE]
[b]Blue Roses Unlimited wrote: [/b]
[QUOTE]
[b]mike hunt wrote: [/b]
[QUOTE]
[b]rhyeking wrote: [/b]
[QUOTE]
[b]mooghead wrote: [/b]
[QUOTE]
[b]rhyeking wrote: [/b]
What inspired this direct in the band?
[/QUOTE]
Another One Bites The Dust is to blame.
[/QUOTE]
Well, yes, but there were other factors involved too. Freddie was doing the gay disco thing in Munich, which seemed to influence his pop-dance bent on this and Mr. Bad Guy. The band was in and out of the studio between South American tours for a year, which probably resulted somewhat in "Las Palabras." The band's relationship with Billy Squier almost certainly influenced them; listen to "Emotions In Motion" and tell me it doesn't have a resemblance to Hot Space material. Freddie's work with Michael Jackson can be traced to this period (and with the band, it was even earlier, as he pushed them to release "Dust" as a single). And most obviously, working with Bowie likely influenced them, even after he finished work on "Under Pressure." Bowie was between his Scary Monsters and Let's Dance albums, the latter being very pop-dance-funk laced.
[/QUOTE]
Let's not get in to this "freddie fault" bullshit. Of course freddie was a big part of the band, but the others had a say. John was obviously into it. roger alway's loves the new wave, dance stuff. for some reason people see roger as the rocker of the band, He was more new wave in the late 70's and 80's. Brian?....the rocker, though those rockers were getting stale in the early 80's. Also, keep in mind if it wasn't for freddie during the hot space era there wouldn't be a Queen. From what I heard freddie was the one who kept things going. The others were more occupied with the family, kids and all that.
[/QUOTE]
Also, Freddie was in doing the gay scene in New York at the time of Hot Space.
[/QUOTE]
Freddie was in doing the gay scene in the 70's too, lol.
