Dusta
Really good stuff! One of the reasons I joined Queenzone was for posts like this! Thanks for taking the time to share.
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thunderbolt 31742
I'm still very excited about this find. I honestly believe this could re-write the history of Queen that we all know, and I strongly believe this--not Truro--could be the first Queen show. So many pieces fall into place, but here's another key piece of evidence (circumstantial though it is) that I failed to notice both for my first reply here and the e-mail I just sent to another member of this forum discussing the implications of this gig:
Smile was a replacement band here. Sour Milk Sea was contracted to play but broke up beforehand. The fact that Tim Staffell's band stepped in to cover for Freddie Mercury's ex-band is NOT a coincidence, period. I'm sure Tim, Brian and Roger were approached (probably by Freddie himself) and told about the circumstances of this show needing a replacement band to help Freddie out of the bind he'd have likely found himself in if no band showed up at all.
Being that Tim Staffell already had other priorities at this point (i.e., Humpy Bong), it's entirely possible that Brian and Roger were very keen on the idea of taking the gig, but Tim was unavailable. Reading the ad, one almost gets the feeling that Smile playing this show was a last-second arrangement to begin with, and Tim may well have had other plans. In that instance, who would they logically ask to step in and sing other than Freddie, who was certainly familiar with their music and had planned on being there that night anyway?
Initially, I thought that the May 9, 1970 Smile show would be key to this one. If Tim Staffell was singing there, Freddie almost certainly would not have been the lead singer here--why would Tim quit the band then come back for one show when he's already recording with Humpy Bong? Now, I'm not so sure that a Freddie-led May 9 show is necessary. The advert for the May 9th show looks like a bill that was set a long time in advance, and is not covered by a disclaimer that any replacement bands are playing. Maybe Tim was perfectly happy to finish out the already-contracted Smile shows, but was unavailable to take this one on at the last second. In that situation, having Tim back on lead vocals for the May 9 Smile show would not in any way rule out the possibility that Freddie was on lead vocals for this show.
The more I think about it, the more apparent it seems to me that there's a very strong chance that this, and not the June show in Truro, was the first "Queen" concert. Sure, Truro was the first one after Freddie, Brian and Roger decided to rename the band and tour together, but based on the implications of the "replacement band" line in this advert, I'm slowly becoming more and more suspicious that April 17, 1970, was the first time Freddie Bulsara performed a show as the lead vocalist of a band that had Brian May on guitar and Roger Taylor on drums.
To the Queen fan who found this ad and posted it here (I'd address you by name, but "QueeninCornwall" doesn't exactly roll off the tongue), THANK YOU for getting the wheels of my mind spinning, and getting me more excited about Queen than I've been in quite some time. The possibility that Freddie fronted Smile *before* the June Truro show has me absolutely giddy. I'd like to ask, though, if you've been able to look a few days ahead in the microfilms and see if there are pictures or a review of the show--anything which could answer definitively the now very-real question at hand:
Who was the lead singer of Smile on April 17th and 18th, 1970?
Smile was a replacement band here. Sour Milk Sea was contracted to play but broke up beforehand. The fact that Tim Staffell's band stepped in to cover for Freddie Mercury's ex-band is NOT a coincidence, period. I'm sure Tim, Brian and Roger were approached (probably by Freddie himself) and told about the circumstances of this show needing a replacement band to help Freddie out of the bind he'd have likely found himself in if no band showed up at all.
Being that Tim Staffell already had other priorities at this point (i.e., Humpy Bong), it's entirely possible that Brian and Roger were very keen on the idea of taking the gig, but Tim was unavailable. Reading the ad, one almost gets the feeling that Smile playing this show was a last-second arrangement to begin with, and Tim may well have had other plans. In that instance, who would they logically ask to step in and sing other than Freddie, who was certainly familiar with their music and had planned on being there that night anyway?
Initially, I thought that the May 9, 1970 Smile show would be key to this one. If Tim Staffell was singing there, Freddie almost certainly would not have been the lead singer here--why would Tim quit the band then come back for one show when he's already recording with Humpy Bong? Now, I'm not so sure that a Freddie-led May 9 show is necessary. The advert for the May 9th show looks like a bill that was set a long time in advance, and is not covered by a disclaimer that any replacement bands are playing. Maybe Tim was perfectly happy to finish out the already-contracted Smile shows, but was unavailable to take this one on at the last second. In that situation, having Tim back on lead vocals for the May 9 Smile show would not in any way rule out the possibility that Freddie was on lead vocals for this show.
The more I think about it, the more apparent it seems to me that there's a very strong chance that this, and not the June show in Truro, was the first "Queen" concert. Sure, Truro was the first one after Freddie, Brian and Roger decided to rename the band and tour together, but based on the implications of the "replacement band" line in this advert, I'm slowly becoming more and more suspicious that April 17, 1970, was the first time Freddie Bulsara performed a show as the lead vocalist of a band that had Brian May on guitar and Roger Taylor on drums.
To the Queen fan who found this ad and posted it here (I'd address you by name, but "QueeninCornwall" doesn't exactly roll off the tongue), THANK YOU for getting the wheels of my mind spinning, and getting me more excited about Queen than I've been in quite some time. The possibility that Freddie fronted Smile *before* the June Truro show has me absolutely giddy. I'd like to ask, though, if you've been able to look a few days ahead in the microfilms and see if there are pictures or a review of the show--anything which could answer definitively the now very-real question at hand:
Who was the lead singer of Smile on April 17th and 18th, 1970?
QueeninCornwall
Youre right ....its an important as a historical document and its interesting to think what the implications are. I ve sent a copy to Jacky Gunn to see what she makes of it.
I found it late on Saturday when the library was about to close but I should be able to take another look soon. Meanwhile here is a scan of the whole page so you can see it in amongst the other adverts. Its easily missed. In fact I would have missed it, but printed this page because of the other PJs advert (which is for the same gig).
One consideration is that the journey to Cornwall in the sixties particularly was not easy and you can imagine that Tim in London may have opted out of singing in this gig for that reason alone.
I found it late on Saturday when the library was about to close but I should be able to take another look soon. Meanwhile here is a scan of the whole page so you can see it in amongst the other adverts. Its easily missed. In fact I would have missed it, but printed this page because of the other PJs advert (which is for the same gig).
One consideration is that the journey to Cornwall in the sixties particularly was not easy and you can imagine that Tim in London may have opted out of singing in this gig for that reason alone.
Bo Rhap
QueeninCornwall.
Thanks for all of this info.
As you can see you really have opened up a lot of Queen fans imagination.Including mine.I'm kinda wondering what the line-up for those two gigs were too.
Cheers mate.
Thanks for all of this info.
As you can see you really have opened up a lot of Queen fans imagination.Including mine.I'm kinda wondering what the line-up for those two gigs were too.
Cheers mate.
QueeninCornwall
OK I'll admit it but this is a shameless attempt to get you to visit my blog
Its www.queenincornwall.blogspot.com
In the last couple of days I've uploaded some images taken from inside Rogers boyhood home as it is now, and the original advert for the first Queen gig, June 1970, which I don't think has appeared in reproduction before... please feel free to leave messages etc there...
Its www.queenincornwall.blogspot.com
In the last couple of days I've uploaded some images taken from inside Rogers boyhood home as it is now, and the original advert for the first Queen gig, June 1970, which I don't think has appeared in reproduction before... please feel free to leave messages etc there...
QueeninCornwall
I should add, Ive made contact with Pete Bawden of PJs he is reflecting on the significance of the Sour Milk Sea reference in the advert...will report back on this!
thunderbolt 31742
WOW!
I mean, WOW!
We have the closest thing yet to proof that Queen were, for at least the "first" show, billed as Smile.
Dude, you are the best thing to happen to the study of Queen's history since a guy named Martin decided to chronicle every known Queen gig on the internet. Thank you so much!
I mean, WOW!
We have the closest thing yet to proof that Queen were, for at least the "first" show, billed as Smile.
Dude, you are the best thing to happen to the study of Queen's history since a guy named Martin decided to chronicle every known Queen gig on the internet. Thank you so much!
QueeninCornwall
There are lots of people still in Cornwall who remember the Smile gigs and the first Queen gigs. This week I managed to find Mike Grose who was Queens first bassist.
He said that after Tim left Smile he played bass in PJs with them. (There is also a record of Rick Thorning playing with Smile too and one wonders if Rick played the remain London gigs). But Freddie most definitely did not sing with Smile at that stage...
He said that after Tim left Smile he played bass in PJs with them. (There is also a record of Rick Thorning playing with Smile too and one wonders if Rick played the remain London gigs). But Freddie most definitely did not sing with Smile at that stage...
The Real Wizard
From the blog:
"He [Mike Grose] said it was PJ (Pete Bawden - see earlier post below) who persuaded him to pick up the bass and play with Smile at PJs in Truro after Tim Staffell left the band early in 1970. He said they were playing a lot of covers and blues standards so he didn't really have to rehearse beforehand. Also, significantly, with Tim the lead singer having left, that night he remembers sharing the singing duties with Brian and Roger."
Amazing. Tim had left in early 1970, Mike Grose played the PJ's gigs, and there were two more Smile gigs after that, according to queenconcerts.com:
24.04.1970, Eel Pie Island, Twickenham, UK
09.05.1970, Imperial College, London, UK
So we have two possibilities - were the gigs canceled, or did Freddie join them?
"He [Mike Grose] said it was PJ (Pete Bawden - see earlier post below) who persuaded him to pick up the bass and play with Smile at PJs in Truro after Tim Staffell left the band early in 1970. He said they were playing a lot of covers and blues standards so he didn't really have to rehearse beforehand. Also, significantly, with Tim the lead singer having left, that night he remembers sharing the singing duties with Brian and Roger."
Amazing. Tim had left in early 1970, Mike Grose played the PJ's gigs, and there were two more Smile gigs after that, according to queenconcerts.com:
24.04.1970, Eel Pie Island, Twickenham, UK
09.05.1970, Imperial College, London, UK
So we have two possibilities - were the gigs canceled, or did Freddie join them?
The Real Wizard
A further question ..
Does anyone know why Mike Grose left the band?
QueeninCornwall, did you meet with Mike? How did it go?
Does anyone know why Mike Grose left the band?
QueeninCornwall, did you meet with Mike? How did it go?
thunderbolt 31742
So we're on to something! Tim Staffell, according to Mike Grose, had left Smile before the shows at PJ's. Freddie Mercury had left Sour Milk Sea, and asked the Staffell-less Smile to fill in for his old band...
The circumstantial evidence is mounting. We need a smoking gun, and QueenInCornwall, I think you're on the trail of it.
Things just fall into place and make sense now. Ken Testi, among others, have claimed that Queen were billed as "Queen" from Truro onwards. Perhaps they were--maybe Truro was the first "Queen" concert, so to speak, but maybe these gigs at PJ's and the Smile gigs afterwards were when Freddie, Brian and Roger first took the stage together as a band.
Maybe, just maybe, Truro was the first show after they'd decided to stick together and make a "new" band from the ashes of the old, but one of these four mystery shows between the first PJ's gig and Truro was when the band that would later be called Queen first took the stage together.
The circumstantial evidence is mounting. We need a smoking gun, and QueenInCornwall, I think you're on the trail of it.
Things just fall into place and make sense now. Ken Testi, among others, have claimed that Queen were billed as "Queen" from Truro onwards. Perhaps they were--maybe Truro was the first "Queen" concert, so to speak, but maybe these gigs at PJ's and the Smile gigs afterwards were when Freddie, Brian and Roger first took the stage together as a band.
Maybe, just maybe, Truro was the first show after they'd decided to stick together and make a "new" band from the ashes of the old, but one of these four mystery shows between the first PJ's gig and Truro was when the band that would later be called Queen first took the stage together.
The Real Wizard
Thunderbolt wrote:
"Freddie Mercury had left Sour Milk Sea, and asked the Staffell-less Smile to fill in for his old band..."
Mmm, does it specifically state that Freddie asked them?
"maybe these gigs at PJ's and the Smile gigs afterwards were when Freddie, Brian and Roger first took the stage together as a band."
It definitely wasn't the PJ's gigs in April, as Mike Grose says he played those ones as a trio with Brian and Roger sharing vocals. So there are only two mystery shows now... April 24 and May 9. My best guess is the gigs were canceled, because they didn't have a bass player.
"Freddie Mercury had left Sour Milk Sea, and asked the Staffell-less Smile to fill in for his old band..."
Mmm, does it specifically state that Freddie asked them?
"maybe these gigs at PJ's and the Smile gigs afterwards were when Freddie, Brian and Roger first took the stage together as a band."
It definitely wasn't the PJ's gigs in April, as Mike Grose says he played those ones as a trio with Brian and Roger sharing vocals. So there are only two mystery shows now... April 24 and May 9. My best guess is the gigs were canceled, because they didn't have a bass player.
QueeninCornwall
I think its possible that Tim was persuaded to play those later gigs even though he had decided to leave the band...Mike Grose said to me that he and Roger had had a minor falling out that weekend in Truro and Tim had gone back to London.
The Real Wizard
Cheers for the reply.
Did Mike specify how many gigs he played with Smile? There are the April 17 and 18 shows in question, and it seems he played at least one of them. If he played only the one, was the other one canceled, and perhaps Tim played the final two on April 24 and May 9?
Did Mike specify how many gigs he played with Smile? There are the April 17 and 18 shows in question, and it seems he played at least one of them. If he played only the one, was the other one canceled, and perhaps Tim played the final two on April 24 and May 9?
QueeninCornwall
Mike didnt play in London with Smile but played that weekend in Cornwall with them. He cant remember if he played one or both of the booked gigs. Tim may have played one but not stayed for the other. He (Tim) was definitely in Cornwall though that weekend.