IMPORTANT DISCOVERY REGARDING EARLY CONCERTS

Thanks for all the great info.  Your work is incalculable.

Historical Stuff!!... what a find! Thank you for sharing that here.

That is soo awesome. Its also great to hear all the tidbits involved here... Sour Milk Sea was supposed to have played???.... SOOOOOOOOOOOOOFA KiNG amazing!

this is great. thank u.

So perhaps we don't have Freddie playing with Brian and Roger before Truro, but we have another amazing bit of information in that Mike Grose played bass for Smile, at least for a short while. We have 3/4 of what would become the first incarnation of Queen onstage together much earlier than previously thought.

Like Sir GH, I'm curious as to why Mike Grose left the band after only, what, three shows? He was the co-owner of PJ's apparently, did that play into it? Or was there a difference of opinion between Mike and one or more band members at some point?

And, again, another huge question that's dogged the Queen community (and since you seem to have a way of getting in touch with Mike Grose, I'll ask it)...when Freddie, Brian, Roger and Mike played at Truro on June 27, 1970, were they playing as "Queen," or as "Smile"?

I think that question is as relevant now as it ever was. Sure, they were billed as Smile in the newspaper ad, but when they walked onstage, did they introduce themselves as "Smile," "Queen," or some hybrid of the two (these guys used to be called Smile, but now we're called Queen, etc.)? We know that gigs had been booked using the Smile name previously, and some venues were surprised to find a band named "Queen" setting up their gear after they'd booked a different group. Previously, I had taken it as fact that the guys called themselves Smile, at least for the first show. However, since it appears Smile ended on a sour note with Tim leaving in early 1970, resulting in his either being talked into playing a few last shows or those last shows being scrapped entirely, maybe Brian and Roger wanted to put the Smile name behind them, and even though they still used it to book shows (as Smile was fairly well-known on the club/college circuit back then), they introduced themselves onstage as "Queen" from the very beginning.

In such a way, the people who've insisted that the band was billed as Smile at their first show would be correct--but so would Ken Testi, who's insisted that they presented themselves as Queen from the very start!

QueenInCornwall (or Rupert, as the case may be?), I can't thank you enough for the detective work you've put into this. It's absolutely amazing to see the earliest chapters of the Queen story being written right now through the work you're doing, almost forty years to the day after the band's first gig. Thank you, thank you so much for your efforts! If they ever put the Queen Archivist position to a public vote, I'll write your name on the ballot. ;)

I think the crucial person here is Freddie.

Once it was decided he'd be the new singer it sounds like they'd decided they needed a new name and went with one that Freddie was keen on.

The point about the gig at the City Hall in Truro was it was the first one that Freddie sang in as lead singer. It was also at a point when the name had been decided.

How they announced  themselves is an intriguing question and one of those things that may have been forgotten. The other issue for me is whether Roger would have used the drum skin with Staffells big Smile face on it...

But based on what people down here have told me the band were very clear about their change of name and change of image and had discussed the look of the new band and so on too.

So I think Roger, who like Freddie was conscious of the importance of presentation, would have changed the skin on his bass drum and the band would have announced themselves as Queen.

But I will try and get some clarification on this...

I can not thank you enough for this information. I do have a question though {if it's not a burden on you} that's slightly off this topic. Milke Grose played bass with Freddies previous band Wreckage correct?
Does he know anymore information on the songs freddie wrote for their band {wreckage}?
We know Green exists currently, does he know the names or perhaps the origins of other Wreckage or Ibex songs?
I would greatly appreciate it, if it's not too much to ask :]
And again thank you for filling in the gaps of Queen history.

Gooday to you sir!

It was Mike Bersin who played with Freddie in Wreckage, and not Mike Grose. You are confusing them.

BTW, QueeninCornwall, your blog and your work is amazing.

this is superb stuff!! but I can't seem to access your blog?

My mistake, sorry for that minor error. Then who am I thinking of who taped the Liverpool show in 1969?
I apologize i'm abit rusty with my Queen knowledge. Lately i've been dusting the cobwebs off my cranium, just don't have the time these days to store all this information on my favorite band as much anymore.

It was Geoff Higgins.

I remember reading that Roger's mother used to book gigs for them early on.   Is she still living?  Hope so.

yes is the answer to both those queries!

So here's what I'm taking away from all this:

There is no clear delineation between Smile and Queen, as we'd previously thought. Queen is not a band that rose from the ashes of Smile; it's an evolution of Smile. We can see the pieces fall into place from Tim Staffell's departure earlier than thought to Mike Grose playing with them at PJ's. Maybe, perhaps Freddie sang lead vocals with them at a show or two in April/May.

We also know that Queen played shows that had originally been booked as Smile shows--in effect, Queen took over the final shows for Smile. Knowing what we either know or can easily surmise based on this new information, there was no hard, fast moment in time where Smile ended and Queen began. Pending the outcome of what Mike Grose remembers about the first show, I'd say it's now very likely that they were booked as Smile, they were advertised as Smile, and when they took the stage, Freddie introduced them as Queen. Even at their first Queen show, they still existed in a kind a limbo--they may have even still had the Smile face on the bass drum!

We may not have something as spectacular as proof that Freddie sang lead vocals at a Smile show before the June 27th Truro show, but we do have a new picture of the earliest days of the band. I personally have a completely new understanding of how Queen came to be. We have a much more detailed catalog of Smile shows, and we even have a couple of new early Queen shows at PJ's to add to the mix.

Again, QueenInCornwall, thank you for your hard work. It's just infinitely cool to watch this play out, and speculate about where it may end up.

I wonder if when smile transitioned into Queen in the beginning when Freddie sang lead vocals what songs they played?
Did they play smile songs or Wreckage songs? Was any new songs written at the time?
Does Mike Grose remember what songs that he played with Queen when he was in the band?
That's also a very big piece of history that is unknown?

According to queenlive.ca, the first Queen show consisted of Stone Cold Crazy as the opening number and then a lot of covers.

Now, "covers" here is a debatable term, as I'd wager that they played at least a couple of Smile songs. Freddie was very familiar with the band's music, and Brian and Roger certainly knew how to play their own songs. Mike probably remembered just enough to squeak by.

That said, when a band adds two new members, they typically don't unleash their entire catalog at the first show. My guess would be that the setlist consisted of Stone Cold Crazy, Doin' All Right, a few blues covers and Jailhouse Rock. Nothing too daring for the first show.

But that's pure speculation. Here's hoping Mike Grose can shed some light on this for us.