Cataloguing Unreleased Material

Ok, firstly let me deal with the points raised.

I added Carousel as it was included on the BBC Session recently shared by John and Peter. It was on the BBC master tape owned by John.

I wasn't aware of The Miracle Medley, I had always had them as separate tracks. Of course we can included the medley, we just need someone to share it.

There are a few questions I need answered before we can start to put something together to upload.
1) Do we want to include demos that have been released? In other words Butterfly and The Hitman.
2) Have the multitracks I mentioned been shared? I know they are widespread but I don't know if they are freely available.
3) Has the 'demo' of Machines ever been shared? I can't find it if it has.
4) Some demos seem to be know by other names. There is an instrumental jam that has been described as Dragon Attack and Comming Soon. Does anyone know what is actually is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEzI6AltuH4
5) The demos called Feelings and Feelings Feelings are considered by some to be different versions of the same track. The lyrics are similar, is everyone happy we catalouge this way?

1) I think we should include released demos, but instead of a download link, provide a link to purchase the item. If it is something very rare and of a limited number (The Hints of Innuendo Tape for example) then I believe it is acceptable to offer it for download.

2) Multitracks should be included in a section of their own, but not linked to from the site, as Brian was unhappy to see them out in the open. They are widely available on torrent and download sites, but again they should not be linked to.

3) I have a so-called Machines demo, although it is rather short and uninteresting. It will definitely have been shared somewhere, as I am relatively new to collecting Queen demos. If it is nowhere on this site I will upload it.

4) I am also curious as to the identity of this track, although I think Coming Soon is probably our best bet. It is almost certainly not Dragon Attack, as Queenvault provides a description completely different to the track in hand.

5) I think that "Feelings is perhaps just a jam that went on to inspire the song, or alternately, it is just a regular jam with Freddie utilising some of the lyrics from "Feelings Feelings". One interesting point is that the final chord of "Feelings" is the beginning of the "Silver Salmon" demo, and this is why I would catalogue it as from the NOTW sessions.

Just my feelings.

Thank you for that very thoughtful reply Ginja. I've always treated 'Feelings' and 'Feelings Feelings' as separate tracks, and I think I will continue to do so.

I am happy to share The Hitman, and I have a much better version that commonly circulates from my copy of Hints Of Innuendo; but I don't want to get anyone (Particulary me) in trouble.

No need to share the Machines demo, I have it and I will upload with the rest of the collection.

I've always considered "Feelings" and " Feeling Feelings" as two different, independent compositions (regardless of the state of completion). The only thing they share is a similar name and that they're both demos. "Feeling Feelings" from the NOTW sessions sounds much more complete, with coherent lyrics and a pretty polished backing track. In fact, it could well have been issued as a B-side as is, in my opinion.

I also think the fact that they have similar names, coupled with the fact that at one time (and still in dark corners of the internet) "Feelings" is quite erroneously refered to as "Silver Salmon Version 2," has resulted in a good many fans getting quite confused about the origin of these tracks.

I know there are fans who believe that the leaked demo of "Silver Salmon" hails from NOTW and I'm not going to try to change anyone's mind on that.

Here's my opinion:

"Feelings" ( likely 1972, Queen 1 sessions) (also, in no way related, musically, to "SS" or "FF")
"Silver Salmon" (likely 1972 Queen 1 sessions)
"Feeling Feelings" (pretty certainly NOTW session) 

Okay, that's my two-cents on that issue.

I'm still stuck on this "Carousel" track. Are we refering to the carousel music Brian used to intro Brighton Rock on SHA? If so, no matter who shared it with what other files, it's still not technically a Queen track. Nor is it unreleased. It's rare, I suppose, but if we insist on including it, it shouldn't be coupled with unrelated BBC session tracks. I'd classify it independanty, noting its "significance" clearly.

Regarding "The Miracle Demos Medley," my understanding of this track is that it was compiled by someone at Queen Productions and played at a Fan Club Con in the '90s. It is a selection of demos from The Miracle (obviously) and is cleverly mixed together. The ending of the leaked verion cuts out part way into "Chinese Torture" and no one knows if that's how the original QP mix ended, or if the leaked version got cut somewhere down the line.

I'll try to upload it, but no garauntees, as I've never tried to upload anything on QZ. If I fail, I'll at least make it a YouTube post and provide the link. Actually, it may already be up there somewhere.

Once you hear it, you may agree that keeping the Medley intact is wiser than using the individual, incomplete tracks. I know I prefer to hear it all together, but that may just be me.

Okay...a little help here...

I'm trying to upload The Miracle Demos Medley and when I select "Upload" it tells me: "Please select at least one Text file".

What does THAT mean? I've tried added a rtf and doc file to the upload, but I still get the same thing, nothing happens when I click "Upload". Is this a website glitch? I seem to be doing everything correctly.

Help!

Okay, let's try this...

This is my first torrent upload ever. I hope it works.

Here are some details:

Title: The Miracle Demos Medley
Recorded: various Miracle sessions, circa 1988
Length: 14 minutes, 10 seconds

Many of the partial demos like "My Baby Loves Me" and "I Guess We're Falling Out" are edited from this. To the best of my knowledge this was compiled by someone in Queen Productions, played at a Fan Club Con (in the '90s?) and that master was subsequently leaked. 

Shortly afterwards, fans/collectors started editing the individual songs, taking the Medley apart piece by piece.

The songs/demos featured are:

"My Baby Loves Me"
"I Guess We're Falling Out"
"Fiddly Jam (the basis for Hang On In There)"
"A New Life Is Born"
"I Want It All (guitar demo)"
"Chinese Torture (partial)"

Enjoy!

If you're making a torrent, you've got to seed the file for long enough so that other users can fully download it. Would t be simpler just to use Mediafire or Megaupload?

It's seeding now (again)...I think.

Who the fuck designed torrents to be so fucking user-unfriendly? There's NO feature on BitTorrent that simply says "Seed torrent."

For that matter, why the fuck is it such a goddam pain to get a torrent posted on QZ? I read the entire "How to..." thread and followed the instructions and the motherfucker still didn't fucking do jack fucking shit!

Can you tell I'm pissed?

:-)

Preach it sistah!! (or brother)

Torrents ain't my thing either, but perseverance will triumph!

For the record: Carousel was NOT or ever was part of the BBC session.

It was the just next track on my mini-disc master of my alternative 'Sheer Heart Attack' mixes/remixes and out-takes.
Because the BBC session was divided into tracks of John Peel's commentary and music, I programmed one too many tracks to be copied - this is how it ended up on Pitrek's CD.

Thanks, John, for 'officially' confirming what I was saying about "Carousel".

Someone is downloading the Medley, so I guess it's working now.

It was still too freakin' complicated for its own good getting it up and going.

I download the medley, and I am seeding.

Thank you for this share. I agree it makes more sense to have it as medley, now I know why 'I Guess We're Falling Out' starts with the 'My Baby Loves Me' drum beat.

Now we have to decide who we get these up on the web.

rhyeking wrote:

"Was there a thread here I missed where the case was made and proven for the NOTW era origin?"

There was, but it was a few years back.  The search function here is of no help.

Silver Salmon was originally from the early days, but the recording we have is from 1977.  I can be 100% sure.  Here's the supporting evidence:

1) Queen decided to strip down their sound for News Of The World after the bombast of the last two albums.  Silver Salmon was an older track they revisited, but it ultimately took a pass.

2) The drum kit used on all three tracks in question (including the so-called "Feelings" jam) is identical.  It contains timbales, which Roger used ONLY on the NOTW album.

3) Roger's drum style is greatly evolved on these three tracks.  He didn't use the "slightly open hi-hat with snare" technique in the early days like he did by 1977.

4) Freddie's voice is greatly developed.

5) The sound on Feelings Feelings and Silver Salmon is identical - mix, EQ, everything.

6) The two songs leaked at the same time.  They're from the same tape.

There is not a chance that any of these tracks are from 1971 or 1972.  There has never been any evidence suggesting these tracks are from any year but 1977, other than folklore.

An afterthought...

The list of "demos" is great, but demos need to be distinguished from actual studio takes.  But unfortunately there is very little such information available.  Here's all the info I have about the studio takes that are available:

1972 - Great King Rat (takes 1 and 4)
1973 - Funny How Love Is (take 4)
1973 - The March Of The Black Queen (takes 3-5)
1976 - Somebody To Love (takes 1-5)
1977 - Feelings Feelings (take 6)
1982 - Staying Power (January 27, unknown take)
1982 - Life Is Real (February 7, unknown take)

I'm just going by what I've read, as I'm no expert of the band in the studio.  And quite frankly, I don't think anyone is, because it doesn't seem the information has ever been compiled into one place, like it has been for The Beatles, for example.  There's a day by day book of the Beatles' studio work, and it's an incredible read.

Sir GH, re:

>>1) Queen decided to strip down their sound for News Of The World
after the bombast of the last two albums.  Silver Salmon was an
older
track they revisited, but it ultimately took a pass.

Ihave a hard time believing that they would bother to revisit something
THAT old and which, unlike "Hangman", never made it any further.  You
say that they revisited the track in 1977 - what evidence is that that
this is true?  Is it just an assumption on your part?  (Please don't
take that as an accusation - just interested to know.)

>5) The sound on Feelings
Feelings and Silver Salmon is identical
- mix, EQ, everything.

To me, the two tracks are from exactly the same tape, absolutely.  The
high pitched guitar chord at the end of "Feelings Feelings" goes
straight into the chord played at the start of the "Silver Salmon"
track.  When burnt to disc with no track break, it's evident that this is a splice out of a session reel.

Now, if this is from 1977, how do you account for Freddie saying
"I know he doesn't know it" in the version with studio chatter
preceding the track?  That, to me, sounds like it's come from a tape of
an early session with John finding his way around material that Queen
have been playing around with.

In this regard, it appears to me, given the above and the "innocent"
pitch of Freddie's voice, that all of this comes from whatever session
"Polar Bear" emerged from.  Freddie's voice was W A Y too mature in 1977
for "Feelings Feelings" or "Silver Salmon" to have come from the NOTW
sessions.