Brian May to become Vegan!!!!!!!!!!!

Hi QNut
But it is true that too much meat can be a problem, as it is well known that it can cause excessive amounts of inflammation in the body. Too much of a good thing you could say. Its just not true that it is bad for us in reasonable amounts cos its not. Its got all the essential aminos, iron and Vitamin B12 etc. Like with so many things, it is a matter of balance. Too much is bad. Not enough can also be bad. And yes,I agree that vegos and vegans are usually a lot more health conscious and that the prevalence of omnivores that don't eat a healthy diet (which may include too much meat) , can very much mask the healthy state of the omnivores that do eat a balanced diet. It is the more natural diet for our bodies. That much is certain.

great thread...
well i just want to say that i have been a vegetarian for 24 years, and that is the best thing i have done in my life.
when i was eating meat i never thought about the animals, i just thought it was a natural thing to do.
but then i came into a bit of a searching period, for the meaning of life, the answers to the big existential questions.
and the one who convinced me the most, talked about vegetarianism, that it was the ethical thing to do, and the most healthy also.
i liked eating meat, but becoming a vegetarian, was still surprigsingly easy... i have never longed for eating meat again.
many vegetarian products, are quite similar to meat in taste, so i guess that has helped the process.
but maybe it's not right to say it tastes like meat, cause meat don't taste that much itself, if you don't put salt and pepper on it and other spices.

i don't like to preach about this and tell others what to do, but i do feel sorry for all meat eaters, and think the world would become a much, much better place, without that diet, there are many good arguments for that.

the one i have read who have inspired my change of diet, says that he rather dines with a tolerant meat eater than an intolerant vegetarian, so as always, the best thing is to be friends, even though we have different meanings.

Eating meat *is* a natural thing to do, and thoroughly ethical in it's purest form. Some of our methods of raising meat for food on the other hand are neither particularly natural nor ethical, but that is a separate issue. While I absolutely respect individual choice and specifically admire the commitment and discipline of vegetarians and vegans on one level, I frankly feel sorry for anybody that could come up with the phrase "I do feel sorry for all meat eaters". It's so typical of the depth of the egocentrism that it seems to me is so frequently at the heart of the matter when it comes to vegans, vegetarians and hard core animal rights activists.

see next post!

I think it's unethical to eat meat, because it is not something we need to do. We can change it for vegetables, helping both the environment, and feeding the world, and probably we are healthier off as well.
AND the animals don't have to suffer anymore, and have their precious lifes shortened.

and talking about meat eating as a natural thing to do, i wonder how many would continue eating meat, if they had to slaughter the animals themselves, and prepare it...

Does this mean we will be able to eat Brian May now?

[QUOTE] [b]Heavenite wrote:[/b]

Like with so many things, it is a matter of balance. [/QUOTE]

Yea, balance is what it's about. An all meat diet would be just as bad as an all plant diet not because meat itself is bad, but because it would neglect many important nutrients that plant foods provide. There's no doubt that an omnivorous diet is the natural one.

[QUOTE] [b]Q NUT wrote:[/b]
There's no doubt that an omnivorous diet is the natural one.[/QUOTE]

Yes, at the moment.

There's also no doubt that evolution could create a new natural diet. If generations of people didn't eat food from an animal, we would evolve to be able to function without it and ultimately reject it.

[QUOTE] [b]mick_g wrote:[/b]

I think it's unethical to eat meat, because it is not something we need to do. We can change it for vegetables, helping both the environment, and feeding the world, and probably we are healthier off as well.
AND the animals don't have to suffer anymore, and have their precious lifes shortened.

and talking about meat eating as a natural thing to do, i wonder how many would continue eating meat, if they had to slaughter the animals themselves, and prepare it... [/QUOTE]

I live in Canada, and when you live in Canada but not in Toronto, Montreal or Vancouver it's wonderfully, blessedly difficult to escape the realization that human beings are part of a stunning and sometimes cruelly beautiful natural system with almost unfathomable widsom in it's every breath. And we *are* part of the natural world, not an invasive species as many modern urban philosophs would have it, bad human behaviour notwithstanding. We're not "superior" to the "lower" animals any more than a fox is "superior" to a "lower" rabbit. That is a fallacious indulgence of people who as far as I can tell are projecting a model for sorting things that begins with their own obnoxious and thoroughly misplaced sense of their own superiority. Humans are apex predators, just like lions and grizzlies and crocodiles and where we interact directly with the natural world through activities like hunting humans play a vital role in the health of ecosystems. I don't personally hunt, and never would, but hunters are my family, coworkers and friends. I don't suffer under the kind of delusions that Brian May does about the characters of those who hunt wild game, or inexplicably cast the eating of venison as "frivolous" as has been done here. If anything the deep respect hunters have for the animals they kill is far more profound and reality based than your average badger hugger or self-fascinated vegan.

Agriculture is not strictly predation, and we mostly do it badly right now, but we do it badly in addressable ways. Comparisons have been made here between the treatment and consumption of animals and past treatment of women and black people. We were always wrong to devalue the humanity and potential of anybody based on things like race or gender or class. Always wrong. Deeply wrong. Similarly there is a growing recognition that we have always been wrong where we have failed to adequately see animals as fully sentient beings whose physical, mental and emotional experience is important, particularly when that experience includes drastically reduced quality of life and needless suffering. But that is a completely different concept than whether or not they should be taken for food. When did that become wrong? Certainly it's not wrong when other animals do it. It's wasn't wrong in times past when alternate means to meet nutritional requirements were unknown or otherwise out of reach. Few but the most virulent of animal rights nutcases would argue it's wrong today in remote communities like the Canadian Arctic region where food flown in to already impoverished communities costs anywhere from two to four and more times that of food in downtown Toronto. Of course Brian May would likely tell them to move, like he tells farmers to farm something else, with absolutely no regard for personal history, values or experiences outside his own. Somebody here said it "might" be okay to hunt deer around cities, in some special cases that made sense their head. So consuming animals then does not fit with the absolute moral position of we've come to with regard to things like slavery and inequality. People still want to use it though, taking all the emotional power of the argument and none of the burden of rationality or logic.

Livestock are so much more than just dumb beasts waiting around inertly to be murdered by humans. They are a vital part of sustainable agriculture through their conversion of sunlight to food and their cycling of nutrients back to the land, for example. And they are infinitely valuable just in the wonder of their being, a fact not changed by the fact that their lives do not end naturally. It's a complete arrogance for vegans and vegetarians and militant animal rights people to imagine that they alone have the market cornered on compassion and respect for animals. I guarantee I don't have an ounce less regard for any animal on the planet than any of you, though I convert my own experiences and feelings into different conclusions. The personal rejection of meat eating is a perfectly reasonable response to our human capacity for empathy and compassion, but so is a response of wonder, gratitude, acceptance and humility in the face of a biological reality that death, even our own death, begets life in the almost impenetrably wise and complex natural system we are part of.

Get over yourselves. Really. You're far less important than you think and far less equipped to convert your personal and thus necessarily limited set of experiences and beliefs into a moral panacea for the rest of the world you imagine to be based on any kind of objective truth. It's not. It's completely subjective, and a dangerous type of subjective as it so easily sweeps people and ideas in almost exclusively on the emotional appeal. Witness the sorry state of the UK badger cull debate for a painfully current example.

The Real Wizard wrote:

Q NUT wrote:
There's no doubt that an omnivorous diet is the natural one.

Yes, at the moment.

There's also no doubt that evolution could create a new natural diet. If generations of people didn't eat food from an animal, we would evolve to be able to function without it and ultimately reject it.

Hi The Real Wizard
That much is true. But we all know how long evolution takes. I think science would be the more realistic answer for those like yourself who don't want to miss out nutritionally. At least as far as science and vegetarian/vegan sources can do that.

Just on Vitamin B12, do you know the product Vegemite? Its made out of yeast and is a rich source of it. Australians love it as a rule, but it hasn't caught on that much around the world. It strikes me that eating that stuff would be as close as possible to getting a non animal replacement for Vitamin B12, which even The Vegan Society say is effectively essential for good health.

[QUOTE] [b]The Real Wizard wrote:[/b]

Yes, at the moment.

There's also no doubt that evolution could create a new natural diet. If generations of people didn't eat food from an animal, we would evolve to be able to function without it and ultimately reject it.[/QUOTE]

This assumes that the new diet would have no bad consequences which is questionable.

Vegetarian diets can be detrimental to many
people (yea, vegetarians ignore them) and certainly to most if no supplementation is taken. If there is an optimal diet for everyone it certainly isn't vegetarianism. To suggest that everyone can survive on a vegetarian diet ignores a mass of data to the contrary. If one chooses to live that way then they have to be very careful especially with a child.

Vegetarians constantly mislead others and many are in denial about the deficiencies in their diet and as a result many people have suffered. Not very ethical if you ask me.

[QUOTE] [b]Q NUT wrote:[/b]

[QUOTE] [b]The Real Wizard wrote:[/b]

There's also no doubt that evolution could create a new natural diet. If generations of people didn't eat food from an animal, we would evolve to be able to function without it and ultimately reject it.[/QUOTE]

This assumes that the new diet would have no bad consequences which is questionable.[/QUOTE]

As opposed to the current omnivore diet adhered to by most, which leads to clogged arteries, heart disease, colon cancer and type 2 diabetes?

As opposed to all that prescription medication that kills more people worldwide than all the hard drugs combined?

As opposed to the alcohol that kills 10x more people than hard drugs?

And we're talking about how eliminating meat and dairy from your diet can potentially cause health problems? I don't mean to be argumentative, but where are our priorities?

A vegan diet can be done properly. It requires much effort and research in order to receive adequate nutrition - nobody's denying that. But to unequivocally say it's unhealthy and inferior to eating meat and dairy? There is no factual evidence to support that.

Much of what we hear about these diets being healthy is propaganda from the meat and dairy industry. As the number of vegetarians and vegans increase, the propaganda machines are upping their game, as there is money to be lost. It's becoming more and more difficult for the average person to discern fact from fiction. The latest myth is that soy lowers your sperm count.

[QUOTE] [b]Heavenite wrote:[/b]

That much is true. But we all know how long evolution takes. I think science would be the more realistic answer for those like yourself who don't want to miss out nutritionally. At least as far as science and vegetarian/vegan sources can do that.

Just on Vitamin B12, do you know the product Vegemite? Its made out of yeast and is a rich source of it. Australians love it as a rule, but it hasn't caught on that much around the world. It strikes me that eating that stuff would be as close as possible to getting a non animal replacement for Vitamin B12, which even The Vegan Society say is effectively essential for good health.

[/QUOTE]

I'll have to look into Vegemite. Thanks for that !

You're welcome Wizard. We love it in Australia on toast. But we eat if from an early age, so maybe we're used to it. Most others don't seem to like it, but I certainly do!