Regarding the "Golders Green Hippodrome" concert

I can't find the link to the thread I downloaded it from, but it was titled something like "SQ decoding in Adobe Audition 3.0" and required an additional phase shift plug-in. I think it's the "first" complete script available (of two that I know of). I modified it slightly because the original could only decode 96 kHz files. My reference is the web page http://www.quadraphonicquad.com/
regards
teddi2002

That should be:
http://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/showthread.php?7939-SQ-Decoding-with-Adobe-Audition-for-New-Converters-Start-Here
That is a perfect script. You can also achieve excellent (and, perhaps, faster) results with SQdecode 1.2:
http://www-user.rhrk.uni-kl.de/~junglas/SQdecode/SQdecode.html
Anyway, please bear in mind that the SQ-encoded audio should have not been tempered with if you want to extract the maximum amount of surround information from it.

The only thing I did to the files was to decode them, and I don't think pittrek's "remastering" injured any sq information.
Regarding the different decoding methods, I think that the scripts for Audition features greater seperation than anything else that I've tried, since most decoders use the "passive method", featuring a seperation of 3 db, while the script for audition features a "logic method" (although not similiar to dolby's pro logic).

kind regards

teddi2002

The sample is certainly an improvement.

Out of curiosity I converted both versions to mono, and after evening out the levels they sounded identical.  So in short, is this a shifting around of the channels or is it phase removal?  Or phase removal via channel shifting?  In headphones the phase effect is gone in GinjaNinja's version.. it's a much more stable stereo sound.

So, I guess what I'm asking is... have you guys managed to create four separate channels out of a single stereo recording?  How is this physically possible?

teddi2002 wrote: I think that the scripts for Audition features greater seperation than anything else that I've tried, since most decoders use the "passive method", featuring a seperation of 3 db, while the script for audition features a "logic method"
Hmmm... not quite... Also remember that "F/R separation" is not exactly the same as "surround information extraction".

Pittrek's remastering COULD BE very detrimental to SQ-encoded information - that depends on what he did. Obviously any kind of phase correction will probably wipe most of such data, but also tiny little things like adjunting the relative levels of each channel or the DC offset will affect the results when decoding.

@ SirGH

I did it using phase adjustment in Audacity. I'm not quite sure how it works, but I'll tell you the process.

I duplicated the track, then swapped around the stereo channels in one. I then adjusted the Phasing by 90 degrees. After merging these tracks with the originals, this gave me the "front" (as Teddi2002 named them) channels. These lacked the panned guitar and the levels was noticeably lower.

I wasn't quite sure how to obtain the "rear" channels, to be able to properly mix, so I re-imported the original, and just mixed this in with the "front" channels.

If anyone wants the rest of the tracks doing, I'll give it a go. Whether it will work better with Teddi's SQ files, I'll have a listen.

Hope I explained that clearly :)

You did... thanks.  Now I just have to internalize it.. this concept is pretty new to me.. :-)

Wilki Amieva wrote: By the way, it seems there were quite a bunch of quad broadcasts between 1973 and 1977:
http://keepontrackin.bravepages.com/quadradio.htm#1973
Queen it's not listed in it, but there are lot of well-known names (artists and also programmes).
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Ironically enough, I downloaded one of those Alice Cooper concerts yesterday that someone has unpicked and put on a DVD-A.
Funny how two concerts have appeared at the same time when before very few people knew they were Quad!

Vocal restoration is up http://www.queenzone.com/forums/1255580/announce-golders-green-hippodrome-vocal-restoration.aspx

I've used the same technique as with Ogre Battle for all of the tracks, some came out better than others. Enjoy!

[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Wilki Amieva wrote:[/QUOTENAME] teddi2002 wrote: I think that the scripts for Audition features greater seperation than anything else that I've tried, since most decoders use the "passive method", featuring a seperation of 3 db, while the script for audition features a "logic method"
Hmmm... not quite... Also remember that "F/R separation" is not exactly the same as "surround information extraction".

Pittrek's remastering COULD BE very detrimental to SQ-encoded information - that depends on what he did. Obviously any kind of phase correction will probably wipe most of such data, but also tiny little things like adjunting the relative levels of each channel or the DC offset will affect the results when decoding. [/QUOTE]

I have done nothing, I just joined the best available sources together. Remastering of the main source was done by stark, and I don't remember from memory what has he done :-)

Indeed. He did the remastering.

Interesting topic!

A while ago I got hold of the Bootleg "As it began" with the most complete version of this concert I heard so far. But it was obvious that there was something wrong with the guitar in the mix, as it was widened by phase-reversing.
As no radio-soundman would do something like that nor Queen ever used that effect I always wondered, where it came from.
 I somehow doubt that this concert was broadcast in Quad, cause then it would have been mentioned in the talk of the radiospeaker hosting this show. And they might have played with the echo unit in Son & Daughter, which would have been a highlight for a Quad-broadcast. Also I remember that in those days "dummyhead stereo" was more attractive in Radio as more listeners could make use of  it. Who owned a radio that could receive quadrophonic signals in the early 70s when even stereo was quite rare? 

I also tried to reduce the phase mistake by creating a third track with reversed phase so it would erase most of the "wrong" guitar track. This in the end brought the guitar to a slightly lower level and more natural sound. But it didn't help too much to bring Freddie up to the front. Which probably is impossible as there is too much "room" on his voice. It's like an audience recording from the back row. You can add some EQ but you can't get "nearer"...

Thanks for this "Ogre Battle" version, different from my result but also a good way to go. 

Hope one day the mystery around this recording can be solved.

The "phase issues" are consistent with SQ encoding.

Quote: The "phase issues" are consistent with SQ encoding.
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Depending on what kind of encoding is used it might make sense.
But an absolute rule in public radio was and still is, that every format has to be compatible with mono. Which does not work with this recording being "a nightmare" in mono and also in stereo.
So it's hard to imagine, that they broadcast something, that was only audible for a handfull of people while the majority heard a concert with the singer in another room..;-)

Both SQ and QS were labeled (an marketed) as "stereo-compatible" and "mono-compatible". That means that you CAN hear them in stereo or mono, but obviously there WERE issues.

From Wikipedia:
"The early SQ decoders could not produce more than 3dB of separation from front to back. Early "Logic" circuits were introduced to enhance separation to 20dB, but provided poor performance, very noticeable gain-pumping and an unstable 'swaying' soundfield. The SQ system also faced resistance from broadcasters since, while essentially a two-channel system and totally stereo-compatible, it could have substantial mono compatibility problems, which posed serious problems with all televisions and monophonic radios of the era. [...]"

Apparently, the SQ format met the BBC standards - as there were a lot of broadcasts in that format. Some of them are just reported as such, but there are also a lot of them that were announced as such at the time. Eventually, the issues in stereo and mono compatibilty, prompted BBC engineers to develop the Matrix H format.