Keep Yourself Alive (Long Lost Re-take)

When the official Deluxe Editions were announced for the first 5 albums, in another thread I pointed out that "Keep Yourself Alive (Long Lost Re-Take)" appears on the "A Night At The Opera" disc and is dated on this edition as from "June 1975."

I decided to make this its own thread, and so as not to retread, here are the important points brought up in that discussion:

The "Long Lost Re-take," until now, has been associated with the Queen 1 recording session, between June and November of 1972. The "Long Lost Re-Take" also goes by the name "Long Lost Original Version" on the Crown Jewels Promo CD single, whose liner notes say: "Here is a collector's edition sampler of all versions, including the rediscovered original version, of Queen's first single 'Keep Yourself Alive.'"

Further, in a 1983 interview for BBC Radio One, Brian said the following:

"Brian May: The first recording of it ever was in De Lane Lea when we did it ourselves and I’ve still got that recording and I think it’s very good and has something which the single never had. But THEY pressurised us very strongly to redo all the tracks and we redid ‘Keep Yourself Alive’ with Roy and it was pretty awful, actually. I thought it was terrible and I was very unhappy about it and I thought the De Lane Lea one was better and I eventually managed to persuade Roy that it was better as well. So, we went back in and did it again in a way that was a bit more true to the original. But there is no way that you can ever really repeat something. I have this great belief that the magic of the moment can never be recaptured and, although we ended up with something that was technically in the playing and perhaps even in the recording a bit better than the De Lane Lea thing. I still think that the De Lane Lea one had that certain sort of magic, so I was never really happy. As it turned out no one else was ever really happy either and we kept remixing it. We thought that it’s the mix that’s wrong, we kept remixing and there must have been, at least, seven or eight different mixes by different groups of people. Eventually we went in and did a mix with Mike Stone, our engineer, and that’s the one that we were in the end happiest with. That’s the one we put out."

My understanding is that the De Lane Demo was obviously recorded first, but that Roy Thomas Baker had them record KYA for the album and that version was what is now called the "Long Lost Re-Take." But the band didn't like it and recorded the song again, and mixed it seven or eight times. Mike Stone's mix was the best and that became the album and single version. This theory suits the facts as given.

I also postulate that the now-promoted "June 1975" date for the "Long Lost Re-Take"  is a mistake, that the date ought to read: "June 1972." Some circumstantial support for this is the fact that "Mad The Swine" on the Queen 1 Deluxe Edition is given as "June 1972," which by all other accounts is correct.

I further speculated that the 1972-recorded "Long Lost Re-take" might have been later planned for a 1975 US single release, to capitalize on their growing popularity, but at some point the LLRT was changed to the standard US Single Edit, which DID see a July 1975 release.

The responses to my posts were of the "I can't believe such a mistake could be made" variety, or "you could be mistaken and this is either another version or the LLRT we all know WAS recorded in 1975." Defense of the former comes from the fact that it's a pretty whopping mistake if that's the case. Defense of the latter comes from the belief that if the first RTB version (recorded after the DLL Demo) was so bad, Brian never would've let it out ever.

My thoughts are that Queen Productions and related releases do contain honest to goodness mistakes. It happens. As to Brian never wanting the RTB version released, well, the interview was in 1983 and the LLRT only officially appeared on the Hollywood Records Queen 1 re-issue in 1991, so maybe Brian mellowed in 8 years. He DOES endorse the LLRT as it appears on the HR Queen 1 release, quoted in the liner notes: "This is a complete re-make of 'Keep Yourself Alive.' This version never surfaced anywhere. It contains many new ideas and quirks, as well as reproductions of some of the old ones."

Now, some new info has surfaced. Here is a quote from the press release for the forthcoming 'Stormtrooper In Stilettos" 7" single:

"Featuring two tracks recorded in the early 70’s, ‘Keep Yourself Alive (Long Lost Retake)’ (the original version taken from ‘Queen’) and ‘Stone Cold Crazy’ (from ‘Sheer Heart Attack’), the single is released to coincide with the exhibition ‘Stormtroopers in Stilettos’ which runs at Old Truman Brewery on Brick Lane in London for two weeks from Friday 25th February 2010."

...and...

" ‘Keep Yourself Alive’ was the first single Queen ever released back in 1973 and is now poignantly released on their 40th Anniversary. This is the only Queen single that ever failed to chart in the UK mainly because Radio One rejected it claiming it took long to get going! This new 2011 remaster is a long-lost retake of the track recorded in 1975 for a USA single that never saw the light of day. The original version is taken from Queen’s debut album, Dave Grohl’s favourite album of all time."

So now it appears, if this same "Long Lost Re-Take" as found on the 1991 HR Queen 1 re-issue and the Crown Jewels promo, that Queen Productions' official position is that it dates from 1975 as an unreleased (at the time) US single.

Questions now are:

Is QP compounding a mistake by promoting it as fact? I'm not calling anyone a liar, but mistaken facts do get repeated, even from official sources.

Is QP 100% correct? If so, the "Long Lost Re-Take" we know and love IS from 1975 and we should adjust notes and collections accordingly.

Is this newly-toted "Long Lost Re-Take" the same as the track by the same name which appears on the 1991 HR Queen 1 and Crown Jewels Promo CD single? We'll have to wait and hear. If 'yes,' the earlier 2 questions apply. If 'no,' then this is yet another recording of the song, genuinely from 1975.

If the HR Q1 LLRT aka CJ LLOV are indeed from 1975, the Roy Thomas Baker Version first recorded for the album and rejected by the band is still in the vault, unheard by many. 

Thoughts?

I may be missing something, but why do we need to wait to hear?   The songs that will be released are already posted online via the stormtroopersinstilettos site.  Aren't they? http://soundcloud.com/purplepr

Are they?

Are we certain those are lifted for the Deluxe Edition Remasters?

EDIT: Just listened to the tracks posted, so if those are the tracks to appear on single and in the case of KYA, on the Deluxe Ed. "Opera," tt would appear they are in fact claiming that the "Long Lost Re-Take" previously issued on the 1991 HR Queen 1 Remaster and the Crown Jewels Promo is from 1975.

I still think, given the available evidence, that it's up for debate as to whether it was *recorded* in 1975 or 1972.

It certainly seems to imply so: http://www.stormtroopersinstilettos.com/new-single-release/

The updated press release posted by GT in the other thread is a little bit abstruse as well.  It first references the songs (and specifically the re-take as well) as being recorded in the 'early 1970's', then later makes the 1975 claim.  It would not be typical to refer to mid decade as the 'early 1970's', but not entirely inaccurate either.  One would think it shouldn't be this hard to have these kind of facts with some level of clarity.

Agreed.

And that's why I rarely take official sources at face value with something like this. If I hear something or read something from an official source that appears inconsistent with other information, I investigate as best I can, part of which involves getting the thoughts of other Queen fans on here. 

As noted, another official release, the Crown Jewels Promo CD single seems to flatly contradict the claim of the LLRT being from 1975, while directing us to believe it's the Long Lost Original Version, both in title and liner notes.

We basically have two claims (it was from 1972 and it was from 1975) and one must be wrong.

Below a comment I did post earlier in the annoucement about the "deluxe" albums:

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The fact that Hollywood records did release Keep Yourself Alive (Long Lost Retake) wasn't a big suprise for me, since Brian already talked about it in a interview I read long way back in 1978.

So I digged in my archive an this is what I found...since it is in Dutch I give a small translation:
The interview was taken by Kees Baars (Dutch DJ and pop journalist) for Muziekkrant Oor in between the 2 concerts at the Ahoy 19/20 april 1978 and was published 14 june 1978.
Translation:
First Brian talks about Queen II, that it is the most important Queen album for him and he would like to re-recorded it....but there many reasons to do it not. Than he says "Last Year" we have re- recorded Keep Yourself Alive for the American market, but due to the fact that "We are the champions" was a big sucess, we have left it on the shelf. Maybe we will release it sometime or put it on an album because it is a pretty good take which strenght me the idea that the production of the first album wasn't good.  
I don't know how serious we need to take the words "Last Year" which means that KYA was re-recorded in 1977... but I think Brian was wrong or was misunderstood.  

In the RAR you can't find the complete interview (In Dutch :-( ) and the snippet were here talks about KYA.
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The plot thickens.

Below a comment I did post earlier in the annoucement about the "deluxe" albums:

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The fact that Hollywood records did release Keep Yourself Alive (Long Lost Retake) wasn't a big suprise for me, since Brian already talked about it in a interview I read long way back in 1978.

So I digged in my archive an this is what I found...since it is in Dutch I give a small translation:
The interview was taken by Kees Baars (Dutch DJ and pop journalist) for Muziekkrant Oor in between the 2 concerts at the Ahoy 19/20 april 1978 and was published 14 june 1978.
Translation:
First Brian talks about Queen II, that it is the most important Queen album for him and he would like to re-recorded it....but there many reasons to do it not. Than he says "Last Year" we have re- recorded Keep Yourself Alive for the American market, but due to the fact that "We are the champions" was a big sucess, we have left it on the shelf. Maybe we will release it sometime or put it on an album because it is a pretty good take which strenght me the idea that the production of the first album wasn't good.  
I don't know how serious we need to take the words "Last Year" which means that KYA was re-recorded in 1977... but I think Brian was wrong or was misunderstood.  

In the RAR you can't find the complete interview (In Dutch :-( ) and the snippet were here talks about KYA.
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rhyeking wrote:

As noted, another official release, the Crown Jewels Promo CD single seems to flatly contradict the claim of the LLRT being from 1975, while directing us to believe it's the Long Lost Original Version, both in title and liner notes.

We basically have two claims (it was from 1972 and it was from 1975) and one must be wrong.

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That just about summarises it exactly. 

If the two versions (Crown Jewels version and this new 'Deluxe' ANATO version) are in fact the same, we need to have definitive proof (studio logs, photos etc..) to say whether it is 1972 or 1975.  The fact is, whichever it is, someone at some point has cocked up.  My personal opinion is that it's 1972 , purely after asking myself the question as to why would they re-record an old, very basic song when they had already moved onto writing material like Seaside Rendevous, Bo Rhap, The Prohets Song etc... etc (without even considering the leap from Queen to Queen II and SHA)?

> That just about summarises it exactly.

Not quite: we've got three claims now: '72, '75 and '77. Two of them are wrong (or maybe all three).

> My personal opinion is that it's 1972 , purely after asking myself the question as to why would they re-record an old, very basic song

The reason's already been explained: they'd become more popular (in fact, IIRC, the first two albums reached their chart peak in '75), and wanted to give that song another try in the States. Going back to basics was not rare for the band: remember News of the World? Even the two 'golden' albums have some basic material in them (e.g. I'm in Love with My Car, Long Away).

> when they had already moved onto writing material like Seaside Rendevous, Bo Rhap, The Prohets Song etc... etc

Maybe they hadn't moved onto that yet. They could've recorded it in January '75, February '75, March '75, April '75, May '75, June '75, July '75, early to mid August '75... 'A Night at the Opera' sessions began on the year's 236th day. If the song comes from '75, there's a 64.38% chance they recorded it BEFORE Bo Rhap, Prophet's Song, etc. had even been demo'd.

I'm fascinated by the 1978 Dutch interview. The plot does indeed thicken.

So, to summarize, here is the 'evidence' for each position (not all of which is hard proof, some is circumstantial):

In favour of it being recorded in 1972:

- the 1983 BBC Radio One interview has Brian identify three different recordings associated with "Queen 1", two of which we are 100% certain about: 1)The De Lane Lea Demo, 2) Roy Thomas Baker Version, 3) standard Album Version.

- the Crown Jewels Promo CD Single specifically cited the "Long Lost Re-Take" as the "Long Lost Original Version" twice, on its sleeve and its liner notes.

- The date of "June 1975" has no other precedence for having the band recording. "Opera" sessions proper did not begin until August that year.

- "June 1972" does fit with the period they were recording the first album. 

In favour of 1975:

- Current Deluxe Edition sleeve listings and promotional material, including for the 'Stormtrooper In Stilettos' 7" single.

- There was in fact a US-only 1975 re-issue of the US Single Edit (the edit of the album version) in July of that year, which fits the timeline when accounting for a last-minute change from the LLRT (planned for June) to the US Edit (released in July).

- The 1991 Hollywood Records "Queen 1" re-issue has Brian calling the LLRT "a complete remake."

- The 1978 Dutch interview indicates (date not withstanding) that the band did record a newer version of KYA well after the first album sessions, but says it never got released. We don't know when the interview was given, so a combination of Brian being vague ("last year") and the time between the interview being given and subsequently printed could have been many months, not to mention the interview may have been printed in early 1978, been given mid-1977, referring to "last year" is just a mistake (touring takes it toll and Brian could be mistaken) and Brian is only off by a year.

Like I said, not everything here is hard evidence. It's easy (and perhaps misleading) to speculate too much and some statements from the sources could be up for multiple interpretations. Until further evidence arises, it's a matter of how much weight we put on each piece of evidence.

I'd be very interested in an independent analysis of the sound and instruments used in the recording of the LLRT to see if it fits the "sound" of a particular era of Queen. We may also get in-depth details about where and when the LLRT was recorded in the liner notes of the Deluxe Editions.

> - the 1983 BBC Radio One interview has Brian identify three different recordings associated with "Queen 1"

TBF, considering Brian's flawed memory, that could've also been a mistake to begin with.

> "Opera" sessions proper did not begin until August that year.

True, but it wouldn't be the first or last time the band had an off (or 'bastard') session for a single ... single (A- or B-Side), rather than the album: See What a Fool (February 1974, long after the Queen II album and long before SHA), Under Pressure, Thank God It's Christmas...

> I'd be very interested in an independent analysis of the sound and instruments used in the recording of the LLRT to see if it fits the "sound" of a particular era of Queen.

That's indeed a very interesting project and a wonderful idea.

The February 1974 date for "See What A Fool I've Been" doesn't, I believe, refer to the recording date, but to the release date: February 23rd, 1974. I'm sure SWAFIB was recorded in August of 1973 along with the rest of the Queen II album. Also, by many accounts, the Queen II album was delayed for various reasons (the oil crisis, the fact that Queen 1 was still fairly new...) and the band originally wanted it out in the end of 1973.

I do see your point about one-off recording sessions. Examples like: "God Save The Queen" recorded October 27th, 1974, not for any album (Sheer Heart attack was long finished), but as a closing live anthem for the band. And "Thank God It's Christmas" which was recorded in the summer of 1984, long after The Works was completed (January 1984).

Speaking of GSTQ and KYA, the US-only re-issue single of KYA in 1975 has the original version of "God Save The Queen" on it, which does not feature the fade in as heard later on the album. Also, in July of 1975, when the single came out, "God Save The Queen" was (at the time) a new non-album Queen track ("Opera" was still months away from being recorded). I find that fascinating.

Hi All

Just thought i would add my two pennies worth !

I listened to the LLR of KYA and noticed Freddie changed the lyrics at the end of the track to  "get it get it get it boy keep yourself alive" I have listened to all the versions of KYA i have (live and studio) and the same lyrics seem to appear late 1975, for example Freddie does not sing them in Japan may 75 but he sings them London dec 75 ! You guys may have more live recordings that can be checked. Im sure they were not sung 73-74, so maybe he changed the lyric in the Retake then decided to sing it live too. 

Hope this helps

cheers Dave