Maybe they were a bit inspired by "The Sweet". In 1974 they had recorded "Fox on the Run" for an album in a quite rough version. The record company saw the potential of this song and advised them to re-record that track and add a synthesizer and more harmonies. And it became one of their biggest hits also in the US. So maybe that's what they also tried but finally they noticed that the re-recording wasn't that different. And with all the financial and contract- trouble they focussed on recording "A night at the Opera", which by then - according to some interview - could have been their last album....
Anyway, we can speculate a lot, but as long as no one really knows when this retake was recorded, it's just a guess....
rhyeking · Member since
That's why my hope is that the Deluxe Edition's liner notes reveal more details, such as the studio used, the exact dates in June and the engineers present.
rhyeking · Member since
Sorry to repeat from the Opera Review thread, but I figured for archive purposes, let's tie up the loose ends on this dedicated thread, so anyone looking this in the future will have the most complete picture.
The Deluxe Edition of A Night At The Opera didn't have the treasure trove of information I was hoping for, but it did have a good detail about this track: "Keep Yourself Alive" Long Lost Re-Take was engineered by Gary Lyons and produced by Roy Thomas Baker.
This is important because Gary Lyons is not on record as having any involvement with the debut album. He did do additional engineering on Opera, meaning he was part of the tech staff for Queen's studio work in 1975.
(Thanks to Soundfreak for that detail)
Also revealed at the Stormtrooper In Stilettos exhibit, the box containing the master tape for the Long Lost Re-take (and the edited Short Lost Re-Take) carries a date of 2/7/75 = July 2nd, 1975.
(Thanks to GinjaNinja for spotting that detail)
Comparing this to the other information, such as the "June, 1975" date proclaimed on the Deluxe Opera sleeve, it fits that the LLRT was recorded at the end of June and likely mastered and/or mixed on July 2nd, 1975. This version was not used that month for the US single, as the original US Single Edit was instead re-issued in July, 1975.
This means that greater evidence now points to the Long Lost Re-Take being recorded at the end of June, 1975, and having been mastered and/or mixed July 2nd, 1975, then shelved until 1991.
Questions we're left with include:
Is there still a first, unused, unheard Roy Thomas Baker recording of "Keep Yourself Alive" sitting in the vault? This recording would have come after the De Lane Lea Demo and before the Album Version (the Mike Stone mix).
Do the seven or eight unused, pre-Stone mixes of the Album Version still exist or would Queen or Trident have scrapped them after Stone's mix was finalized?
How could the Crown Jewels producers make the mistake of claiming the LLRT as the "Original Version"? It seems they might have made the same mistake I did, assuming the LLRT was the lost 1st, unused RTB recording.
Thanks to everyone for helping clear that up. We'll keep an eye out for future details.
The Real Wizard · Member since
rhyeking wrote:
Do the seven or eight unused, pre-Stone mixes of the Album Version still exist or would Queen or Trident have scrapped them after Stone's mix was finalized?
=============
That I would like to know myself..
Excellent work compiling all that information, Rhyeking.
rhyeking · Member since
Thanks, SirGH!
Sebastian · Member since
I think it's settled that (i.e. we can be 99.99% sure about) the re-take comes from June 1975, considering:
* Brian's cited comment from the Dutch mag. * Liner notes (2011 ones, that is). * Lyons' involvement. * Arrangement. * Lyrical changes. * Track sheet.
The Jewels info may have simply been a case of whoever wrote them putting 1 and 1 together and getting 3. Wouldn't be the first or last time such thing happens.
rhyeking · Member since
Summary of Facts & Evidence regarding "Keep Yourself Alive (Long Lost Re-Take)"
December, 1971 (Post Edited) Queen record five demo tracks at De Lane Lea Studios, including “Keep Yourself Alive”. These tracks are recorded by Louie Austin.
1st Recording: De Lane Lea Demo
June, 1972 Queen are asked by Roy Thomas Baker to re-record their five demo tracks (from De Lane Lea studios) for the album. “Keep Yourself Alive” would prove among the toughest, as the first version recorded for the album does not live up to the band’s standards. Not satisfied, the band re-record the song and try to get it closer to the De Lane Lea sound. This 2nd version is re-mixed a reported seven or eight times, before engineer Mike Stone mixes it as best he can to the band’s satisfaction. This becomes the official album version and mix, as well as their first single.
2nd Recording: Unused 1st Roy Thomas Baker Version 3rd Recording: 7 or 8 rejected pre-Stone mixes, plus Mike Stone’s Album Mix
February 5, 1973 Queen record their first BBC session at Langham I Studio, including “Keep Yourself Alive”.
4th Recording: 1st BBC Version
July 6, 1973 Queen release the 7” single “Keep Yourself Alive” in the UK. This is the Mike Stone Album Mix.
July 13, 1973 Queen is released in the UK, including the “Keep Yourself Alive” Album Mix.
July 25, 1973 Queen record their second BBC session at Langham I Studio, including “Keep Yourself Alive”. This version re-uses the 1st BBC Version’s backing track and adds new vocals.
5th Recording: 2nd BBC Version
October, 1973 Elektra releases the 7” single “Keep Yourself Alive” in the US. This version is an edit of the Album Mix:
“Keep Yourself Alive (US Single Edit)”
1971 to 1975 Played live, “Keep Yourself Alive” follows the structure first recorded on the De Lane Lea Demo, that of beginning with the guitar, then percussion, then the riff and then the drums.
Late-June,1975 According to the sleeve and promotional material for the 2011 Deluxe Edition of “A Night At The Opera,” Queen record a new version of “Keep Yourself Alive” for a planned US single release. This recording, produced by Roy Thomas Baker and engineered by Gary Lyons, will later be named the “Long Lost Re-Take” and “Lost Lost Original Version”.
July 2nd, 1975 At the Stormtrooper In Stilettos exhibit, the box containing the Long Lost Re-Take master tape is dated 2/7/75 and is likely the mixing and/or mastering date for the recording. An edit of this version is also made, the so-called "Short Lost Re-Take".
July, 1975 The planned US single release of the Long Lost Re-Take is cancelled and replaced with a re-issue of the US Single Edit.
August to November, 1975 Gary Lyons provides additional engineering for Queen’s work during the sessions for “A Night At The Opera.” This is Lyons' only documented work with Queen on an album of theirs to this point.
1975 to 1981 Queen alters live performances of “Keep Yourself Alive” to what more closely resembles the Long Lost Re-Take. The opening now begins with the drums, followed by the guitar, then the riff. The ending now features the new lyric “Get it, get it, get it, boy, keep yourself alive!” This new live version can be heard on the Dec. 24th, 1975 Hammersmith Odeon concert through to the 1979 Live Killers recording, as well as the Queen Rock Montreal, Nov. 24/25th, 1981 concert, though there the ending is absent as the song segued into the percussion solo.
June, 1991 Hollywood Records re-issues Queen’s first 13 studio albums, including bonus tracks on each. The debut album includes the Long Lost Re-Take, the first example of this name for this recording. A liner note by Brian has him call this recording a complete re-working of the song, with both new and old ideas.
1998 A promo CD single is issued for the forthcoming Crown Jewels in the US, it contains the following: “Keep Yourself Alive (Long Lost Re-Take)” * “Keep Yourself Alive (1st BBC Version) “Keep Yourself Alive (Live Killers)” “Keep Yourself Alive (Album Version – Unremastered)” “Keep Yourself Alive (Album Version – 1998 Remastered Version)”
* The “Long Lost Re-Take” here is identified as the “Long Lost Original Version” and the liner notes incorrectly claims it’s the Unused 1st Roy Thomas Baker Version, which contradicts other evidence that the Long Lost Re-Take was recorded in 1975.
Feb. 27th, 2011 To promote the Stormtrooper In Stilettos Queen Exhibit, the band releases a 7” and Digital single of “Keep Yourself Alive (Long Lost Re-Take)” (with the B-side of “Stone Cold Crazy”).
March 15th, 2011 The Deluxe Edition of “A Night At The Opera” is released in the UK, featuring the Long Lost Re-Take, with the sleeve listing it as being from June, 1975, produced by Roy Thomas Baker and engineered by Gary Lyons.
In conclusion, unless new, compelling evidence surfaces to cause us to re-evaluate the facts, it’s safe to say at this point that the recording of “Keep Yourself Alive (Long Lost Re-Take)” is indeed from late June, 1975, and was mastered and/or mixed July 2nd, 1975.
Questions arising:
Does the 1st Roy Thomas Baker Version exist? Brian claims it was terrible, so it's possible it was scrapped or recorded over, possibly by the next version, the one that became the Album Mix. It's equally possible it's sitting in a vault somewhere.
Do the seven or eight unused, pre-Stone mixes of the 2nd album-recording still exist? It's also possible these too were scrapped or recorded over, though it's just as possible some or all are in the vaults too.
The Real Wizard · Member since
Looks good to me! Except perhaps for one thing - as far as I know, the De Lane Lea demos were recorded in September 1971.... most likely on the 18th.
rhyeking · Member since
(scratching my head in mild confusion)
I have that September 18th, 1971, date in my notes as well, SirGH, and believed that to be the date, but the announcement on QueenOnline.com for the Deluxe Ed. bonus tracks lists the following:
Bonus Tracks 1. Keep Yourself Alive (De Lane Lea Demo, December 1971) 2. The Night Comes Down (De Lane Lea Demo, December 1971 3. Great King Rat (De Lane Lea Demo, December 1971) 4. Jesus (De Lane Lea Demo, December 1971) 5. Liar (De Lane Lea Demo, December 1971) 6. Mad The Swine (June 1972)
I made an additional note to myself to look into this, and attempted to, but it seems there's no further info one way or the other. Now that the DEs are out, perhaps someone with the Queen 1 set can look at the liner notes and tell us if there are more or fewer details there.
When compiling the summary last night, I thought about it and decided to go with the official date, taking it at face value, over the September 18th date, which I only read about on these Forums. What exactly do we know of the of the Sept. 18th date, can anyone clarify the source?
Also, some of my other notes indicate Brian was in Tenerife, working on his thesis, from September to October that year. It's still possible he did so after September 18th, however.
Thoughts?
ferdy · Member since
rhyeking wrote: Summary of Facts & Evidence regarding "Keep Yourself Alive (Long Lost Re-Take)"
December, 1971 Queen record five demo tracks at De Lane Lea Studios, including “Keep Yourself Alive”. These tracks are produced by Louie Austin.
1st Recording: De Lane Lea Demo
June, 1972 Queen are asked by Roy Thomas Baker to re-record their five demo tracks (from De Lane Lea studios) for the album. “Keep Yourself Alive” would prove among the toughest, as the first version recorded for the album does not live up to the band’s standards. Not satisfied, the band re-record the song and try to get it closer to the De Lane Lea sound. This 2nd version is re-mixed a reported seven or eight times, before engineer Mike Stone mixes it as best he can to the band’s satisfaction. This becomes the official album version and mix, as well as their first single.
2nd Recording: Unused 1st Roy Thomas Baker Version 3rd Recording: 7 or 8 rejected pre-Stone mixes, plus Mike Stone’s Album Mix
February 5, 1973 Queen record their first BBC session at Langham I Studio, including “Keep Yourself Alive”.
4th Recording: 1st BBC Version
July 6, 1973 Queen release the 7” single “Keep Yourself Alive” in the UK. This is the Mike Stone Album Mix.
July 13, 1973 Queen is released in the UK, including the “Keep Yourself Alive” Album Mix.
July 25, 1973 Queen record their second BBC session at Langham I Studio, including “Keep Yourself Alive”. This version re-uses the 1st BBC Version’s backing track and adds new vocals.
5th Recording: 2nd BBC Version
October, 1973 Elektra releases the 7” single “Keep Yourself Alive” in the US. This version is an edit of the Album Mix:
“Keep Yourself Alive (US Single Edit)”
1971 to 1975 Played live, “Keep Yourself Alive” follows the structure first recorded on the De Lane Lea Demo, that of beginning with the guitar, then percussion, then the riff and then the drums.
Late-June,1975 According to the sleeve and promotional material for the 2011 Deluxe Edition of “A Night At The Opera,” Queen record a new version of “Keep Yourself Alive” for a planned US single release. This recording, produced by Roy Thomas Baker and engineered by Gary Lyons, will later be named the “Long Lost Re-Take” and “Lost Lost Original Version”.
July 2nd, 1975 At the Stormtrooper In Stilettos exhibit, the box containing the Long Lost Re-Take master tape is dated 2/7/75 and is likely the mixing and/or mastering date for the recording. An edit of this version is also made, the so-called "Short Lost Re-Take".
July, 1975 The planned US single release of the Long Lost Re-Take is cancelled and replaced with a re-issue of the US Single Edit.
August to November, 1975 Gary Lyons provides additional engineering for Queen’s work during the sessions for “A Night At The Opera.” This is Lyons' only documented work with Queen on an album of theirs to this point.
1975 to 1981 Queen alters live performances of “Keep Yourself Alive” to what more closely resembles the Long Lost Re-Take. The opening now begins with the drums, followed by the guitar, then the riff. The ending now features the new lyric “Get it, get it, get it, boy, keep yourself alive!” This new live version can be heard on the Dec. 24th, 1975 Hammersmith Odeon concert through to the 1979 Live Killers recording, as well as the Queen Rock Montreal, Nov. 24/25th, 1981 concert, though there the ending is absent as the song segued into the percussion solo.
June, 1991 Hollywood Records re-issues Queen’s first 13 studio albums, including bonus tracks on each. The debut album includes the Long Lost Re-Take, the first example of this name for this recording. A liner note by Brian has him call this recording a complete re-working of the song, with both new and old ideas.
1998 A promo CD single is issued for the forthcoming Crown Jewels in the US, it contains the following: “Keep Yourself Alive (Long Lost Re-Take)” * “Keep Yourself Alive (1st BBC Version) “Keep Yourself Alive (Live Killers)” “Keep Yourself Alive (Album Version – Unremastered)” “Keep Yourself Alive (Album Version – 1998 Remastered Version)”
* The “Long Lost Re-Take” here is identified as the “Long Lost Original Version” and the liner notes incorrectly claims it’s the Unused 1st Roy Thomas Baker Version, which contradicts other evidence that the Long Lost Re-Take was recorded in 1975.
Feb. 27th, 2011 To promote the Stormtrooper In Stilettos Queen Exhibit, the band releases a 7” and Digital single of “Keep Yourself Alive (Long Lost Re-Take)” (with the B-side of “Stone Cold Crazy”).
March 15th, 2011 The Deluxe Edition of “A Night At The Opera” is released in the UK, featuring the Long Lost Re-Take, with the sleeve listing it as being from June, 1975, produced by Roy Thomas Baker and engineered by Gary Lyons.
In conclusion, unless new, compelling evidence surfaces to cause us to re-evaluate the facts, it’s safe to say at this point that the recording of “Keep Yourself Alive (Long Lost Re-Take)” is indeed from late June, 1975, and was mastered and/or mixed July 2nd, 1975.
Questions arising:
Does the 1st Roy Thomas Baker Version exist? Brian claims it was terrible, so it's possible it was scrapped or recorded over, possibly by the next version, the one that became the Album Mix. It's equally possible it's sitting in a vault somewhere.
Do the seven or eight unused, pre-Stone mixes of the 2nd album-recording still exist? It's also possible these too were scrapped or recorded over, though it's just as possible some or all are in the vaults too.
another fact to add at this excellent KYA review. The single was due to be released June 15th.. I have recently discovered a demo single proving that. check this link:
This was immediately pulled out cause still not happy with mix .. this is what I've been told from the journalist who I got this copy from who did some publicy for EMI back in 73
Sebastian · Member since
Besides the whole September/December thing, there's a slight mistake on the previous long (and very useful) message:
> These tracks are produced by Louie Austin.
I'm almost entirely sure it's Louis (pronounced 'Louie', just one more to the list of misspelt names on the liner notes of that album), and he did not produce, he was the in-house engineer (not the same thing). Credits are clear there 'Night Comes Down recorded by Louie (sic) Austin.' Likewise, the Flash Gordon orchestra was recorded by Eric Tomlinson, but produced by May/Mack.
rhyeking · Member since
My old 1973 US edition of Queen (1) credits him as Louie Austin. As does the 1991 Hollywood Records re-issue. I'm sure Louis is his proper first name, but I stuck with his published credit in this case.
And yes, it does say recorded, not produced. I misread my own note. Sorry.
Sebastian · Member since
They also say Ted Sharpe (it's Sharp), Dave Siddel (it's Siddle) and Deacon John.
rhyeking · Member since
And Mike Oldfield is usually addressed as "Michael" by his friends and family. One album is even credited "Michael Oldfield" (that would be his last Virgin Records album, Heaven's Open).
Josh Macrae is alternately credited as "Josh Macrae" and "Joshua J. Macrae."
John Williams is credited as "Johnny Williams" on Lost In Space (and is called "Johnny" by his friends, watch any interview with George Lucas or Steven Speilberg).
Inconsistencies abound in this industry. I'm not trying to sound like a jerk, believe me, but Louie is not a typo or spelling mistake. It's a legit name. No offense, but I'm keeping it as listed on the sleeve. Besides, he's pretty inconsequential to the article.
Sebastian · Member since
Some cases ARE spelling mistakes. John Williams can be Jack or Johnny, not Jon. Brian May can be Bri, not Bryan. Freddie Mercury can be Fred or Frederick, not Fredy. And so on.
