The new remix of See What A Fool I've Been uses some of the 2nd. vocal take unveiled by Brian in his site some years ago.
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He actually posted the song, or just mentioned it? What exactly did he say?
Penetration_Guru · Member since
I'd like to propose two additions to this list.
1. Now I'm Here (Top Of The Pops version) 2. Good Old Fashioned Lover Boy (Top Of The Pops version)
Both were re-recorded for the BBC, ergo they are "BBC tracks"
GinjaNinja · Member since
Wasn't Seven Seas Of Rhye also re-recorded? Or at least remixed?
Also, would the original TOTP video version of We Are The Champions qualify? I seem to remember it included an alternate guitar part at the end.
Here's what Brian said about the SWAFIB multitrack:
"Well, the good hot news is we DID find the original BBC one-inch 8 track of the song. I thought I remembered carrying it out of the door one night !!! It's exciting because it HAD got neglected because it didn't have a BBC label on it ... it must have been a tape we brought in ... or someone else did ...So soon we can get to grips with this little piece of history. It will be a nice opportunity for me to give credit to the guys who did the song which inspired mine ... Sonny Terry and Brownie McGhee. It was only recently that a friend (made on this website) helped me to find this original track ... We'll convert it into a nice Protools file and get to work!! It's interesting that we also found a BBC stereo mix of the track from the original session and it DOES have a "straight" vocal on it .... curiouser and curiouser ... Of course all versions will have some interest. ..more later.Love bri"
rhyeking · Member since
I see your point, but I have those classified in my collection as Top Of The Pops versions. Feel free to add them to your list.
Maybe I'm compartmentalizing a bit too much, but when I think BBC recordings, in this context, I'm thinking of those recorded for radio broadcast on shows like John Peel or Janice Long. Other artists who's BBC recordings I own tend to record 3 or 4 song per session, maybe some interview snippets and I tended to organize them by session, which generally a single date.
The TOTP recordings, for me, are slightly different. They're a single song performances done for television, to promote the current single (like a music video) not to showcase the band in a wider context. The radio sessions are more involved, with 15 or 20 minutes of music, designed to give a rounded view of the artists' work, where a single TV appearance, whether on the BBC or Saturday Night Live or the Tonight Show, as I perceive it, is somewhat more flash in the pan publicity, mainly because TV is a visual medium. On the radio, the listen has to think about the music alone.
Yes, they're worth cataloging too, but I plan to keep them separate.
rhyeking · Member since
I just compared the BBC Versions against the album versions again and I don't believe certain BBC Versions, in fact, use the album masters. Listening carefully, their are significant differences in the actual performances, though some are very, very close in performance to the album recordings, particular Session 1.
Here's what I believe, based on what I hear, is present in the BBC Recordings:
Session #1 My Fairy King - new recording Keep Yourself Alive - new recording Doing Alright - new recording Liar - new recording
Session #2 See What A Fool I've Been - new recording Liar - Session 1 backing with new vocals, possibly some new instrumentation in places Son And Daughter - new recording Keep Yourself Alive - Session 1 backing with new vocals
Session #3 Ogre Battle - new recording Great King Rat - new recording Modern Times Rock And Roll - new recording Son And Daughter - new recording
Session 4 Modern Times Rock And Roll - new recording The March Of The Black Queen - Album Edit, no new material Nevermore - new recording White Queen (As It Began) - new recording
Session 5 Now I'm Here - album backing with new vocals and guitar Stone Cold Crazy - album backing with new vocals and guitar Flick Of The Wrist - album backing with new vocals and guitar Tenement Funster - album backing with new vocals and guitar
Session 6 Spread Your Wings - new recording It's Late - new recording My Melancholy Blues - new recording We Will Rock You - "Stomp, Stomp, Clap" album backing, otherwise new recording
I'm sure someone with, perhaps, a better ear might correct me, but I gave it a fair amount of attention for each and this is honestly what I'm hearing. I'm interested, as always, in the truth, so if the album tracks were being used, I'd be among the first to want to know.
Soundfreak · Member since
Don't be fooled by the fact, that some of those BBC versions play on bootlegs etc. with slightly different speed. You can easily sync most of the early session songs with the regular versions. Then you can easily hear what they have in common and what is different. "Keep yourself alive" for example is always the same backing. Same with "Liar". You could never do that with the "true" sessions that brought tracks like "Ogre Battle" and "White Queen" which also have the typical dry BBC-sound. And very little overdubbing.
It was common practice in the late 60s/ early 70s that bands would send alternate mixes of their studio recordings to the BBC instead of really recording there. There are dozens of examples and there are even shows existing, when the radio host announces a "BBC live version" of a well known track and then you hear a slight remix with just removed strings or a different lead vocal. Never forget that the reason behind these recordings had no artistic background, it was a union issue. Radio stations in those days were only allowed to play a certain amount of records, the so called "needle time". If they wanted to play more of the new artists they had to invite them to the station to play live or record there. The unions idea was to keep musicians employed instead of being replaced by records. But those bands who had little time sent tapes with remixes instead and everyone pretended that it was a BBC Session.....
I have a nice collection of BBC sessions from the 60s and 70s and believe me, you can really and quite easily identify what has been recorded there.
pittrek · Member since
Soundfreak - a little off-topic question - can you write which 70's BBC sessions you have ?
Soundfreak · Member since
@ pittrek
I'm not good in doing lists. In terms of BBC studio recordings from the 70s I have mainly collected T.Rex, Sweet, Slade, Sparks, Bowie, plus lots of "single" tracks from bands like Roxy Music, Jethro Tull, Free and many more.
rhyeking · Member since
Hi Soundfreak,
I'm not sure if you last post was addressing my list or was speaking generally. If you're were responding to mine, then I assure you I was listening closely to the performance. The instrumentation sounds different in key places.
A few quick examples:
Keep Yourself Alive, BBC #1, has the percussion tapping, marking time, coming in at 7 seconds.
The album version has it come in at 14 seconds.
BBC #2 has it come in at 7 seconds.
Along with other details of the performance, it sounds like they re-used the BBC #1 backing track for the BBC #2 recording.
For Liar, the BBC #1 recording has much softer drums, and it's not just a mix thing. The performance has a lighter, less heavy presence compared to the album version. BBC #2 has the same light feel and to my ear is the same performance as the BBC #1 recording, meaning they used that backing track as well.
On Liar, BBC #1, the drum hit at 1:37 is flat and has almost presence.
On the album version, at 1:37, the drum hit is louder, heavier and has a difference sonic quality to it.
On BBC #2, the hit at 1:38 sounds identical to the BBC #1 recording. The extra second on this recording comes from 1 second of silence at the beginning of my copy, it may differ on other people's copies.
Anyway, those are just a couple examples of what I'm hearing and what I think.
strangefrontier · Member since
Due to time and facilities available at Langham / Maida Vale studios, the BBC sessions were essentially short cuts, started off with album backing tracks / work in progress and over dubbed with vocals and guitar here and there...a mixture of stuff recorded in Trident and the BBC studio.Typically one or two tracks would be done live, with the compromise being adopted for the others. The NOTW sessions is the exception to this rule.
See What A Fool I've Been from session 2 was the most unique recording from the sessions in that it was recorded entirely at Langham studios, and then taken back to trident to be remixed from the 8 track master. Two lead vocals were recorded, the straight BBC session version and the spoof SSOR 'B' side style version.
Has anyone mentioned yet that all the sessions were originally planned for release by QPL as indicated on the Let Me Live 'red' CD2 release which states 'taken from the forthcoming album, Queen at the BBC'.
Dean
rhyeking · Member since
The Queen At The BBC release referred to was the US re-issue of the Queen At The Beeb, issued by Band Of Joy Records in the UK in 1989. Queen At The BBC was released in 1995 in the US by Hollywood Records. The album artwork advertised for Queen At The BBC on the "Let Me Live" single is that of the Hollywood Records release.
And judging by my own study of the BBC tracks, more were original recordings than one or two per session. As noted in my list, the only tracks to re-use material were Session 2's KYA and Liar, Session 4's entire "Black Queen," Session 5's entire backing tracks and the "Stomp, Stomp, Clap," of WWRY on Session 6 (and the spoken-word quote between the slow and the fast segments, but that wasn't from Queen).
The rest are original recordings, near as I can hear.
strangefrontier · Member since
rhyeking you are correct with the US BBC disc...I was completely forgetting it's release date...but it's still strange to promote it's release on a uk cd single!
Regarding what I said earlier, this was actually what Brian had said in an article in Record Collector regarding the BBC sessions etc. I know he can get confused with details at times and that we can pick out obvious new recodings / vocal over dubs etc which blow his comments out the water somewhat!!
Link to the article form June 2001 from the excellent QUEENCUTTINGS
I seriously doubt that Let Me Live would have been advertising the US-only release of the same old BBC album...
Sure it's got the same name, but it was hardly a "forthcoming" release when it had appeared more than a year before the single.
Soundfreak · Member since
And judging by my own study of the BBC tracks, more were original recordings than one or two per session. As noted in my list, the only tracks to re-use material were Session 2's KYA and Liar, Session 4's entire "Black Queen," Session 5's entire backing tracks and the "Stomp, Stomp, Clap," of WWRY on Session 6 (and the spoken-word quote between the slow and the fast segments, but that wasn't from Queen). The rest are original recordings, near as I can hear. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
You are trying to re-write history, sorry to say, but you are hearing wrong. They used the original backing tracks, which in case of Faiy King even have an edit, but they are the same. Apart from the obvious differences they could never play new backing tracks at the BBC, that were 100% in sync with their studio recordings and even sound the same....
I don't know if you have audio programms like magix or audacity with multitrack possibilites, but if you put the tracks into it and adjust the pitch then it's obvious..audible...visible.....it's a fact.
rhyeking · Member since
I'm not trying to re-write history.
As I said from the very beginning, it's what I hear *and* I'm open to others' thoughts on the matter.
As a matter of fact, I have used Audacity, both here and in other analyses. But I never claimed my opinion was the end all and be all.
How do you account for obvious differences in performance in what is, by your analysis, the backing tracks from the album. These differences I'm alluding to aren't a result of simple pitch changes. Instruments and elements are present in one and not the other. The sonic quality of the instrumentation differs, indicating a different recording.
Like I said earlier, I'm hearing details which tell me something different from what they may tell others. That's what we're to discuss. Saying I'm wrong is a matter for debate. Saying that my intention is to mislead others is inaccurate and insulting.
