Over The Field...you just wrote the best post in this entire 15 page thread!
Kudos!
PrimeJiveUSA
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mike hunt
PrimeJiveUSA wrote: Over The Field...you just wrote the best post in this entire 15 page thread!
Kudos!
With that being said, End of thread!
Kudos!
With that being said, End of thread!
john bodega
"I think that is stupid and it is not the purpose of music."
You couldn't be more wrong. It is pretty pointless to try and figure out who's "better", but comparing and contrasting bands is usually a pretty illuminating and fun activity ... as long as it's friendly. People make some pretty good points in these threads.
You couldn't be more wrong. It is pretty pointless to try and figure out who's "better", but comparing and contrasting bands is usually a pretty illuminating and fun activity ... as long as it's friendly. People make some pretty good points in these threads.
The Real Wizard
^ Now THERE'S the best post in the thread.
If you guys believe in passivism and just accept everything as is without scrutiny or debate, then great, I respect that. But why do you even post on a forum then?
Wait, I forgot... 99% of the people who post on forums have no interest in learning from others ... they just want to toot their own horns.
If you guys believe in passivism and just accept everything as is without scrutiny or debate, then great, I respect that. But why do you even post on a forum then?
Wait, I forgot... 99% of the people who post on forums have no interest in learning from others ... they just want to toot their own horns.
GratefulFan
PrimeJiveUSA wrote: Over The Field...you just wrote the best post in this entire 15 page thread!
Kudos!
========================
You are WAY too modest.
Kudos!
========================
You are WAY too modest.
The Thinker
NOTWMEDDLE wrote:
Led Zeppelin are the second highest selling group in rock history in the US with over 100 plus million albums sold States side (behind The Beatles but ahead of The Eagles, Pink Floyd, AC/DC, The Rolling Stones, Van Halen and Metallica). Queen have sold 33 million albums in the States.
==========
Who really cares about American record market and sales figures? It is rather strange in almost all South American countries Queen were colossal as they were in all other continents, but never gained a sizable foothold in the US till after the death of Freddie Mercury. However , as stated previously Queen were continuously politically blacklisted and faced heavy media censorship/control within the United States, hence Queen Albums rather strangely do not appear or have been omitted from the American charts. (An exceptional note should also be considered that sales were not even independently verified till the late 1990’s despite certification. Therefore many historic items have anomalies and the figures do not add up. Likewise grossly inflated historic figures and sales of someone like Elvis were used as “Hard Sell" as an image with media control, marketing, promotion and manipulation by media giants. It promotes a marketable product as an icon, creates a generic legacy to generate and sustains a commercially home grown product, much as in a form of merchandising. Also the sales records in the US markets are very irregular, an example is a band like Milli Vanilli that can be created and sold to masses in the US to achieve millions of certified sales and even claim more number one spots in chart positions singles/albums and better sales figures and statistics than Led Zeppelin. Albeit that in the later years The MTV culture is also to blame together with the advent of media globalization. Therefore it is best to classify the American record market as ever changing and rather volatile and does not give a true reflection historically of popularity or achievements.
Please do not quote the doctored numbers and figures of Wikipedia which have been altered numerous times in the last few years to make Led Zeppelin’s position look more respectful.
Led Zeppelin are the second highest selling group in rock history in the US with over 100 plus million albums sold States side (behind The Beatles but ahead of The Eagles, Pink Floyd, AC/DC, The Rolling Stones, Van Halen and Metallica). Queen have sold 33 million albums in the States.
==========
Who really cares about American record market and sales figures? It is rather strange in almost all South American countries Queen were colossal as they were in all other continents, but never gained a sizable foothold in the US till after the death of Freddie Mercury. However , as stated previously Queen were continuously politically blacklisted and faced heavy media censorship/control within the United States, hence Queen Albums rather strangely do not appear or have been omitted from the American charts. (An exceptional note should also be considered that sales were not even independently verified till the late 1990’s despite certification. Therefore many historic items have anomalies and the figures do not add up. Likewise grossly inflated historic figures and sales of someone like Elvis were used as “Hard Sell" as an image with media control, marketing, promotion and manipulation by media giants. It promotes a marketable product as an icon, creates a generic legacy to generate and sustains a commercially home grown product, much as in a form of merchandising. Also the sales records in the US markets are very irregular, an example is a band like Milli Vanilli that can be created and sold to masses in the US to achieve millions of certified sales and even claim more number one spots in chart positions singles/albums and better sales figures and statistics than Led Zeppelin. Albeit that in the later years The MTV culture is also to blame together with the advent of media globalization. Therefore it is best to classify the American record market as ever changing and rather volatile and does not give a true reflection historically of popularity or achievements.
Please do not quote the doctored numbers and figures of Wikipedia which have been altered numerous times in the last few years to make Led Zeppelin’s position look more respectful.
Holly2003
"Queen were continuously politically blacklisted and faced heavy media censorship/control within the United States,"
There was some reaction to Queen's South African tour. Queen also faced the same prudish censorship that other artists faced e.g. covering up a bare bottom on a 7" record sleeve. Aside from that, I'm not aware of any blacklist, censorship etc. Are you overstating the issue?
There was some reaction to Queen's South African tour. Queen also faced the same prudish censorship that other artists faced e.g. covering up a bare bottom on a 7" record sleeve. Aside from that, I'm not aware of any blacklist, censorship etc. Are you overstating the issue?
john bodega
"But why do you even post on a forum then?"
That's a damned good question! A lot of the time, their sentiment seems to be, "shut up, stop talking" etc. etc. Which really makes me wonder why these people register for the forum. What do they think we should be talking about? 'what brand of sunglasses does roger wear?'.
"Aside from that, I'm not aware of any blacklist, censorship etc. Are you overstating the issue?"
I'd always imagined that it was just DJ's not bothering to play the music, based on assumptions like 'the listeners won't like these poofters'. People in any kind of broadcasting are often hypersensitive to the ideals of the lowest common denominator - take folks at NBC who didn't want to screen Captain Kirk kissing a black woman. They were terrified the South would erupt into all kinds of racist complaints - which never happened.
To be totally honest though I'm still not entirely sure what happened to Queen in the US in the 80's. I hear so many different stories on here that I've basically lost track. I usually go with the most obvious one - Blame The Record Company.
That's a damned good question! A lot of the time, their sentiment seems to be, "shut up, stop talking" etc. etc. Which really makes me wonder why these people register for the forum. What do they think we should be talking about? 'what brand of sunglasses does roger wear?'.
"Aside from that, I'm not aware of any blacklist, censorship etc. Are you overstating the issue?"
I'd always imagined that it was just DJ's not bothering to play the music, based on assumptions like 'the listeners won't like these poofters'. People in any kind of broadcasting are often hypersensitive to the ideals of the lowest common denominator - take folks at NBC who didn't want to screen Captain Kirk kissing a black woman. They were terrified the South would erupt into all kinds of racist complaints - which never happened.
To be totally honest though I'm still not entirely sure what happened to Queen in the US in the 80's. I hear so many different stories on here that I've basically lost track. I usually go with the most obvious one - Blame The Record Company.
jpf
Zebonka12 wrote: "But why do you even post on a forum then?"
That's a damned good question! A lot of the time, their sentiment seems to be, "shut up, stop talking" etc. etc. Which really makes me wonder why these people register for the forum. What do they think we should be talking about? 'what brand of sunglasses does roger wear?'.
"Aside from that, I'm not aware of any blacklist, censorship etc. Are you overstating the issue?"
I'd always imagined that it was just DJ's not bothering to play the music, based on assumptions like 'the listeners won't like these poofters'. People in any kind of broadcasting are often hypersensitive to the ideals of the lowest common denominator - take folks at NBC who didn't want to screen Captain Kirk kissing a black woman. They were terrified the South would erupt into all kinds of racist complaints - which never happened.
To be totally honest though I'm still not entirely sure what happened to Queen in the US in the 80's. I hear so many different stories on here that I've basically lost track. I usually go with the most obvious one - Blame The Record Company.
----
What killed Queen's career in the U.S.:
1) "The Game" and particularly "Another One Bites The Dust" pissed off the rock fans who supported the band.
2) "Hot Space" and "Body Language" made the rock fans go away. They didn't support this lp. The lp sold poorly.
3) "I Want To Break Free" video is boycotted. Guys in drag wasn't going to settle well with rock fans.
4) Freddie's "coming out"; what he said and how he acted in his interviews and in his style of dress. His sexual preference killed his career here just like Billy Squier and the "Rock Me Tonight" video killed his career.
That's a damned good question! A lot of the time, their sentiment seems to be, "shut up, stop talking" etc. etc. Which really makes me wonder why these people register for the forum. What do they think we should be talking about? 'what brand of sunglasses does roger wear?'.
"Aside from that, I'm not aware of any blacklist, censorship etc. Are you overstating the issue?"
I'd always imagined that it was just DJ's not bothering to play the music, based on assumptions like 'the listeners won't like these poofters'. People in any kind of broadcasting are often hypersensitive to the ideals of the lowest common denominator - take folks at NBC who didn't want to screen Captain Kirk kissing a black woman. They were terrified the South would erupt into all kinds of racist complaints - which never happened.
To be totally honest though I'm still not entirely sure what happened to Queen in the US in the 80's. I hear so many different stories on here that I've basically lost track. I usually go with the most obvious one - Blame The Record Company.
----
What killed Queen's career in the U.S.:
1) "The Game" and particularly "Another One Bites The Dust" pissed off the rock fans who supported the band.
2) "Hot Space" and "Body Language" made the rock fans go away. They didn't support this lp. The lp sold poorly.
3) "I Want To Break Free" video is boycotted. Guys in drag wasn't going to settle well with rock fans.
4) Freddie's "coming out"; what he said and how he acted in his interviews and in his style of dress. His sexual preference killed his career here just like Billy Squier and the "Rock Me Tonight" video killed his career.
The Real Wizard
jpf wrote:
4) Freddie's "coming out"; what he said and how he acted in his interviews and in his style of dress. His sexual preference killed his career here just like Billy Squier and the "Rock Me Tonight" video killed his career.
===================
Your first three points are right, but I'll challenge you on the last one..
In the 70s just about everyone knew Freddie was gay. Just look at his outfits! The music got the final word, so they simply didn't care. The US liked Elton and Culture Club. It was when Freddie changed his image and looked like your average New York gay clubber that people started to use the "gay" excuse. But interestingly enough, the Hot Space tour shows got the best reviews of all the US tours Queen ever did. Most reviews in the 70s were bad. In 1980 they got better, and almost every 1982 review I've seen was sparkling.
Had Las Palabras de Amor and Hammer To Fall been the lead singles instead of Body Language and Radio Ga Ga, things may have turned out very differently. But they did what they thought was right at the time. Hindsight is always 20/20.
Another thing is that Capitol Records screwed Queen and many other older artists, opting to market the newer acts instead. But that's a whole other issue..
4) Freddie's "coming out"; what he said and how he acted in his interviews and in his style of dress. His sexual preference killed his career here just like Billy Squier and the "Rock Me Tonight" video killed his career.
===================
Your first three points are right, but I'll challenge you on the last one..
In the 70s just about everyone knew Freddie was gay. Just look at his outfits! The music got the final word, so they simply didn't care. The US liked Elton and Culture Club. It was when Freddie changed his image and looked like your average New York gay clubber that people started to use the "gay" excuse. But interestingly enough, the Hot Space tour shows got the best reviews of all the US tours Queen ever did. Most reviews in the 70s were bad. In 1980 they got better, and almost every 1982 review I've seen was sparkling.
Had Las Palabras de Amor and Hammer To Fall been the lead singles instead of Body Language and Radio Ga Ga, things may have turned out very differently. But they did what they thought was right at the time. Hindsight is always 20/20.
Another thing is that Capitol Records screwed Queen and many other older artists, opting to market the newer acts instead. But that's a whole other issue..
GratefulFan
I recall reading/seeing/hearing(?) Bruce Dickinson(? - I'm pretty sure it was him) say that he believed Queen's downfall in the US stemmed from the slow realization that Freddie was indeed gay, which served to make the entire band persona non grata in parts of the country. I really don't think it was as obvious as some might believe. A lot of people looked like that in the 70's and it may have taken the 80's and it's more aggressively masculine rock image (allegedly - I spent the entire decade wishing they'd all just crop all that big hair right off) to fully differentiate his vibe from the rest of the pack.
jpf
Sir GH wrote: jpf wrote:
4) Freddie's "coming out"; what he said and how he acted in his interviews and in his style of dress. His sexual preference killed his career here just like Billy Squier and the "Rock Me Tonight" video killed his career.
===================
Your first three points are right, but I'll challenge you on the last one..
In the 70s just about everyone knew Freddie was gay. Just look at his outfits! The music got the final word, so they simply didn't care. The US liked Elton and Culture Club. It was when Freddie changed his image and looked like your average New York gay clubber that people started to use the "gay" excuse. But interestingly enough, the Hot Space tour shows got the best reviews of all the US tours Queen ever did. Most reviews in the 70s were bad. In 1980 they got better, and almost every 1982 review I've seen was sparkling.
Had Las Palabras de Amor and Hammer To Fall been the lead singles instead of Body Language and Radio Ga Ga, things may have turned out very differently. But they did what they thought was right at the time. Hindsight is always 20/20.
Another thing is that Capitol Records screwed Queen and many other older artists, opting to market the newer acts instead. But that's a whole other issue..
----
The outfits in the early to mid '70s fit in with what other glam rockers were wearing. The androgynous role wasn't a big
deal. When Freddie copped the gay biker/gay clone look around the Jazz period that's when it started to turn the U.S. rock audience off. Ironic how it had the opposite affect on Judas Priest/Rob Halford.
The costume Freddie wore in the "It's A Hard Life" video would have damaged his career just like Billy Squiers' prancing around in the "Rock Me Tonight" video. It's a good thing that IAHL was never shown in the U.S. when it was released.
"The Works" lp would have sold less copies than "Hot Space".
Declaring or hinting that you were gay or bi during the glam rock era was just part of the act. Declaring your sexuality
after the glam rock era was another story. This was when Freddie was becoming more vocal in his words and actions.
By the late '70s Elton was phasing out of rock and into his pop/dance phase. The rock audience wasn't following him any more. The rock audience had no interest in Culture Club.
"Hammer To Fall" was the only song played on rock radio in my area. It was great to hear Queen go back to rock.
I don't recall "Radio Ga Ga" getting played. Definitely not "I Want To Break Free". The only track from "Hot Space" that I heard on local rock radio was "Under Pressure".
By the start of the '80s all '60s and early to mid '70s bands were considered dinosaur bands. The record company not paying attention to Queen isn't a surprise and it happened to other bands on other record labels.
4) Freddie's "coming out"; what he said and how he acted in his interviews and in his style of dress. His sexual preference killed his career here just like Billy Squier and the "Rock Me Tonight" video killed his career.
===================
Your first three points are right, but I'll challenge you on the last one..
In the 70s just about everyone knew Freddie was gay. Just look at his outfits! The music got the final word, so they simply didn't care. The US liked Elton and Culture Club. It was when Freddie changed his image and looked like your average New York gay clubber that people started to use the "gay" excuse. But interestingly enough, the Hot Space tour shows got the best reviews of all the US tours Queen ever did. Most reviews in the 70s were bad. In 1980 they got better, and almost every 1982 review I've seen was sparkling.
Had Las Palabras de Amor and Hammer To Fall been the lead singles instead of Body Language and Radio Ga Ga, things may have turned out very differently. But they did what they thought was right at the time. Hindsight is always 20/20.
Another thing is that Capitol Records screwed Queen and many other older artists, opting to market the newer acts instead. But that's a whole other issue..
----
The outfits in the early to mid '70s fit in with what other glam rockers were wearing. The androgynous role wasn't a big
deal. When Freddie copped the gay biker/gay clone look around the Jazz period that's when it started to turn the U.S. rock audience off. Ironic how it had the opposite affect on Judas Priest/Rob Halford.
The costume Freddie wore in the "It's A Hard Life" video would have damaged his career just like Billy Squiers' prancing around in the "Rock Me Tonight" video. It's a good thing that IAHL was never shown in the U.S. when it was released.
"The Works" lp would have sold less copies than "Hot Space".
Declaring or hinting that you were gay or bi during the glam rock era was just part of the act. Declaring your sexuality
after the glam rock era was another story. This was when Freddie was becoming more vocal in his words and actions.
By the late '70s Elton was phasing out of rock and into his pop/dance phase. The rock audience wasn't following him any more. The rock audience had no interest in Culture Club.
"Hammer To Fall" was the only song played on rock radio in my area. It was great to hear Queen go back to rock.
I don't recall "Radio Ga Ga" getting played. Definitely not "I Want To Break Free". The only track from "Hot Space" that I heard on local rock radio was "Under Pressure".
By the start of the '80s all '60s and early to mid '70s bands were considered dinosaur bands. The record company not paying attention to Queen isn't a surprise and it happened to other bands on other record labels.
The Real Wizard
jpf wrote:
"Declaring or hinting that you were gay or bi during the glam rock era was just part of the act. Declaring your sexuality after the glam rock era was another story. This was when Freddie was becoming more vocal in his words and actions."
=============
Yup .. no argument from me there.
"Declaring or hinting that you were gay or bi during the glam rock era was just part of the act. Declaring your sexuality after the glam rock era was another story. This was when Freddie was becoming more vocal in his words and actions."
=============
Yup .. no argument from me there.
Lookin' Divine In Good Ol' '89
God, I hate when people try to compare things that are different. I think that both Queen I and Zep I are 2 of the greatest albums ever, but theres so many opposite elements on either that to compare them or judge one based on the other is kind of unfair, if you get my point.