YourValentine wrote: Watching all this you can really give up on mankind. We have a world where the overwhelming majority is so poor they have no clean water to drink and not enough to eat. Famine is "defined" by the United Nations - as long as not a defined number of children starve to death in an area within a certain period of time there is no famine, just imagine that.
On the other hand we have the rich industrial countries but while billions of $$ are accumulated in big international banks the people in these countries get poorer by the decade, lose jobs, social security, pensions and healthcare - all for the benefit of these banks who just have no real use for the money except for making it more - how crazy is that?
At the same time the rich countries carry wars into the poor countries in order to gather the "patriots" under some weird "flags" - because the proverbial Joe Plummer might start to think about fairness in a democracy if he were not kept in fear of the black evil enemy. Of course all this is "God's will" because if it were not God's will we would have to take responsibility for our own actions. If we could not blame it on God - how could we live with the cruelty and unfairness. If we could not shift the responsibility to God we would have to start thinking about the "patriotism" of our banks and corporate industry who manage to make profits private and losses public, we would have to start thinking about the "values" we carry into this world and it might not be so pretty. We might even have to go out and campaign for a better world and become so-called "good-doers" who are so frowned upon these days because they are stupid enough to try and make a difference instead of blogging about their sorry "emo-kid" existence.
If only one out of 10 people would bother to email their MPs "I want rich people to be taxed" and if only one out of 100 people would go to Washington (or Berlin, Paris, London) and rally for fairness and equal sharing - politicians might start to listen to the people and not the lobbyists. Unfortunately, people are so disillusioned about their role that less and less people even bother to vote.
Off to the "things you like most" thread ...
so true :(
GratefulFan · Member since
Sir GH wrote: Who determines said ratings? =====================
Standard & Poor's and Moody's in North America, and somebody else who I forget in Europe. The US is still AAA because of the size of it's economy and because of it's massive GDP. Debt is still less, though only marginally so, than it's GDP. Compare that to some of the European countries in trouble where the debt is up to 140+ % of GDP. What I don't understand is just where are they going to borrow this newly authorized 2.8 trillion dollars? Nobody has that. It's about a third of China's GDP and more than Canada's and many other economies' entire GDP. I don't see how they avoid just printing it out of thin air. Really, they're already defaulting through policy that has allowed massive devaluation of the currency. In 2004 or so, the Canadian dollar was 65 cents against the greenback. Last week it was something like 1.10? Strange times.
The Real Wizard · Member since
YourValentine wrote:
Watching all this you can really give up on mankind. We have a world where the overwhelming majority is so poor they have no clean water to drink and not enough to eat. Famine is "defined" by the United Nations - as long as not a defined number of children starve to death in an area within a certain period of time there is no famine, just imagine that.
On the other hand we have the rich industrial countries but while billions of $$ are accumulated in big international banks the people in these countries get poorer by the decade, lose jobs, social security, pensions and healthcare - all for the benefit of these banks who just have no real use for the money except for making it more - how crazy is that?
At the same time the rich countries carry wars into the poor countries in order to gather the "patriots" under some weird "flags" - because the proverbial Joe Plummer might start to think about fairness in a democracy if he were not kept in fear of the black evil enemy. Of course all this is "God's will" because if it were not God's will we would have to take responsibility for our own actions. If we could not blame it on God - how could we live with the cruelty and unfairness. If we could not shift the responsibility to God we would have to start thinking about the "patriotism" of our banks and corporate industry who manage to make profits private and losses public, we would have to start thinking about the "values" we carry into this world and it might not be so pretty. We might even have to go out and campaign for a better world and become so-called "good-doers" who are so frowned upon these days because they are stupid enough to try and make a difference instead of blogging about their sorry "emo-kid" existence.
If only one out of 10 people would bother to email their MPs "I want rich people to be taxed" and if only one out of 100 people would go to Washington (or Berlin, Paris, London) and rally for fairness and equal sharing - politicians might start to listen to the people and not the lobbyists. Unfortunately, people are so disillusioned about their role that less and less people even bother to vote.
Off to the "things you like most" thread ...
=========================
Haha, indeed. While you're there, be sure to include "my ability to explain how the world works in 90 seconds" ... it's a good skill you have :-)
The Real Wizard · Member since
GratefulFan wrote:
What I don't understand is just where are they going to borrow this newly authorized 2.8 trillion dollars? Nobody has that.
====================
The top 1% controls over 90% of the wealth. Google "US GDP" and do the math. The money these people have made at the expense of the average citizen has already been far greater than what will be dished out to pay off the debt. 2.8 trillion is a drop in the bucket.
And most of the remaining 99% will still vote, as if it matters. The political process was a charade to appease the public just to keep the system going. If this fiasco doesn't get the people thinking, nothing will.
American politics makes my head hurt. Time to listen to classical music on the CBC.
*goodco* · Member since
It takes him a minute or two, but, as always, Jon Stewart states it best
Standard & Poor's and Moody's in North America, and somebody else who I forget in Europe. The US is still AAA because of the size of it's economy and because of it's massive GDP.
Looking at Wikipedia (sad I know...), S&P and Moody's each have about a 40% market share, which means in reality these two companies set the ratings, and have been speculating with the European credit market lately.
Only one independent credit agency (the Chinese Dagong with a few % market share) is doing the same with American loans, and their "A" rating for USA should be considered more realistic.
GratefulFan · Member since
Sir GH wrote:
The top 1% controls over 90% of the wealth. Google "US GDP" and do the math. The money these people have made at the expense of the average citizen has already been far greater than what will be dished out to pay off the debt. 2.8 trillion is a drop in the bucket. ===================
I'm not sure what your point is here. America's wealthy aren't going to be loaning 2.8 trillion dollars to the US treasury, so it doesn't really matter what they have. And 2.8 trillion dollars is an enormous amount of money by any standard.
GratefulFan · Member since
S & P just downgraded US long term debt to AA for the first time in history. They noted the recent near stalemate as the reason as it indicated new doubt not about Ameica's ability to pay, but their willingness. It was the same focus on dysfunctional political gridlock that the Chinese agency Tero mentioned used in it's decisions. Pretty stunning.
inu-liger · Member since
That should serve as a wake up call not only to the highly inefficient people portraying themselves as "politicians", but to the American people as well.
Heads are going to fly for this.
tero! 48531 · Member since
inu-liger wrote: That should serve as a wake up call not only to the highly inefficient people portraying themselves as "politicians", but to the American people as well.
Unfortunately, it seems like that's out of the question.
The Treasury officials are already claiming that S&P are off by a few thousand billion with their figures, and it's been suggested (by some conspiracy nuts, no doubt) that this is nothing more than a Republican ploy to undermine Obama for next year's election.
Our government as well is relying on economic growth to balance the budget, and there's no serious discussion of tax raises or budget cuts. Individual people are expected to reduce their debts with their current income, but governments solve everything by borrowing more and more each year... That just isn't right.
Sergei. · Member since
I don't know exactly what this adds to the discussion, but it made me think a bit. The other day I was watching RT (Russia Today) and they were doing a report about how countries like India are managing to avoid getting hit hard by the recession because the Indians have a "good work ethic," work longer hours for more days than Westerners, and all this other bullshit. Yeah, maybe they're hard-working, but in America we don't let an enormous portion of the population rot and die in shit-smelling despair-ridden slums while the government just says "lol good riddance." (I'm sure someone would try to claim that this does happen in the U.S., in ghettoes or in places like rural Appalachia - but really, that doesn't even come close). In Iceland and Ireland they try to make health-care and aid accessible to everyone instead of letting people die of starvation and ridiculous diseases like leprosy and the black plague. In Western countries, we try to take care of everyone, which obviously is a huge economic burden, especially for a country as huge as the U.S. So I just think it's funny when people try to say "The economy of the West is in the pits, but look at China and India! They know how it's done!" Sure, but look at how they treat the majority of their population. I dunno, I just found that comparison irritating.
Donna13 · Member since
Well, I have noticed that RT ("news from a Russian perspective") is very critical of the United States ... all the time. And they like to have radicals on to give their anti-United States opinions. And that makes it interesting to me. I knew they would be having a great time this morning with the credit rating downgrade announcement, so I turned on that channel to see how they were covering the story.
RT was having a segment about the worsening US job situation and bad economy while showing video of various bag ladies and homeless people on the streets of some city - probably New York. And anyone who knows about these types of homeless people (the kind that drink and sleep on sidewalks of cities or push shopping carts around), knows that they are mentally ill, and regardless of the economic situation, they are not part of the segment of the population that is out looking for work.
You have to wonder why such silly propaganda would ever benefit Russia. Still, it is fun to watch that channel ... especially if you like to hear the worst take on any story, which I do enjoy. For example, RT predicted the worst outcome situation of the meltdown in Japan before I heard such bad predictions anywhere else.
Saint Jiub · Member since
Sir GH wrote: GratefulFan wrote:
What I don't understand is just where are they going to borrow this newly authorized 2.8 trillion dollars? Nobody has that.
====================
The top 1% controls over 90% of the wealth. Google "US GDP" and do the math. The money these people have made at the expense of the average citizen has already been far greater than what will be dished out to pay off the debt. 2.8 trillion is a drop in the bucket.
And most of the remaining 99% will still vote, as if it matters. The political process was a charade to appease the public just to keep the system going. If this fiasco doesn't get the people thinking, nothing will.
American politics makes my head hurt. Time to listen to classical music on the CBC. ------------------------------------------------
The numbers are bad enough, but there is no need to exaggerate by saying 90%.
Several sources indicate that 1% owns 40% of the wealth.
You have to wonder why such silly propaganda would ever benefit Russia. Still, it is fun to watch that channel ... especially if you like to hear the worst take on any story, which I do enjoy. ==========================
As a bonus, it's also a mouthpiece for a wide variety of conspiracy theory crackpots.
Hangman_96 · Member since
Donna13 wrote: Well, I have noticed that RT ("news from a Russian perspective") is very critical of the United States ... all the time. And they like to have radicals on to give their anti-United States opinions. And that makes it interesting to me. I knew they would be having a great time this morning with the credit rating downgrade announcement, so I turned on that channel to see how they were covering the story.
RT was having a segment about the worsening US job situation and bad economy while showing video of various bag ladies and homeless people on the streets of some city - probably New York. And anyone who knows about these types of homeless people (the kind that drink and sleep on sidewalks of cities or push shopping carts around), knows that they are mentally ill, and regardless of the economic situation, they are not part of the segment of the population that is out looking for work.
You have to wonder why such silly propaganda would ever benefit Russia. Still, it is fun to watch that channel ... especially if you like to hear the worst take on any story, which I do enjoy. For example, RT predicted the worst outcome situation of the meltdown in Japan before I heard such bad predictions anywhere else.
