Academic studies on Freddie Mercury's lyrics

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[b]Holly2003 wrote: [/b] [QUOTE]

[b]queenUSA wrote: [/b] Exactly - Mooghead.   Play to the salacious everytime and exploit. [/QUOTE]

You have struck a nerveTK and I, for one, don't agree with what you will be attempting.  

Also, what kind of an academic can't find what GFF just handed you above?  It's been discussed and picked apart many times here on QZ (that particularly persons study) as well as others.   It's not very original these days to go after BoRap (as has been done over and over and over again) trying to find the "coming out" song and gay lyrics (whatever that means).  If you are a fan of Queen - why do this?   Queen are 3 additional people - not just Freddie.  So be sure to write about the counterbalance of being in a band with 3 straight people - because I don't think they've been informed that their musical arrangements have a particular sexuality - although you will soon enough read about the Sheila's "ground breaking" theory of phallic drums (still love that one!).    

You have tried yourself to dismiss what you're doing by using Freddie's words.    Who's the prostitute now?
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Your arguments might carry more authority if you could string even one sentence together that made any sense. Have you considered the possibility that your bizarre opposition to any interpretation of Queen lyrics/music that goes beyond the purely literal might derive from you being a bit thick? [/QUOTE]

First off - take ego out of it completely.  I'm  not trying to be an '"authority" - and never claimed to.   The topic starter is the professor - not I. 

And if you think I'm being a bit thick - let me clear it up for you .... BUG OFF Holly!

It's my opinion and I'm free to express it.

^ ^ Hey, wait a minute .... it's all coming back to me now.  

Perhaps this touched a nerve with you Holly because you're the one who originally posted Sheila Whiteley's steaming pile of s___ earlier this year - the infamous "BoRap Queer Analysis" Paper.   What a load of crap that piece was.   As I said - beware the false professor.

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[b]queenUSA wrote: [/b] ^ ^ Hey, wait a minute .... it's all coming back to me now.  [/QUOTE]

Perhaps this touched a nerve with you Holly because you're the one who originally posted Sheila Whiteley's steaming pile of s___ earlier this year - the infamous "BoRap Queer Analysis" Paper.   What a load of crap that piece was.   As I said - beware the false professor.
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You seem to have a huge emotional investment in Bo Rap not being about Fred's sexuality. I wonder why that is ...

[b]queenUSA wrote: [/b] [QUOTE][/QUOTE] [b]Holly2003 wrote: [/b] [QUOTE][/QUOTE]

[b]queenUSA wrote: [/b]Exactly - Mooghead.   Play to the salacious everytime and exploit.

You have struck a nerveTK and I, for one, don't agree with what you will be attempting.  

Also, what kind of an academic can't find what GFF just handed you above?  It's been discussed and picked apart many times here on QZ (that particularly persons study) as well as others.   It's not very original these days to go after BoRap (as has been done over and over and over again) trying to find the "coming out" song and gay lyrics (whatever that means).  If you are a fan of Queen - why do this?   Queen are 3 additional people - not just Freddie.  So be sure to write about the counterbalance of being in a band with 3 straight people - because I don't think they've been informed that their musical arrangements have a particular sexuality - although you will soon enough read about the Sheila's "ground breaking" theory of phallic drums (still love that one!).    

You have tried yourself to dismiss what you're doing by using Freddie's words.    Who's the prostitute now?
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Your arguments might carry more authority if you could string even one sentence together that made any sense. Have you considered the possibility that your bizarre opposition to any interpretation of Queen lyrics/music that goes beyond the purely literal might derive from you being a bit thick? [/QUOTE]

First off - take ego out of it completely.  I'm  not trying to be an '"authority" - and never claimed to.   The topic starter is the professor - not I. 

And if you think I'm being a bit thick - let me clear it up for you .... BUG OFF Holly!

It's my opinion and I'm free to express it. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You have offered an opinion -- any dimwit can do that -- but you haven't engaged with what's been said, either by myself or anyone else or the author of the article I posted in that other thread. Why then do you have such an emotional attachment to Queen lyrics meaning nothing beyond the purely literal? Is that so beyond teh realms of possibilty? Clearly not.

You put up that academic rag of a paper back in April and seem to have NO capacity for critical thinking yourself.  See it for what it is. 

Why have you no investment in BO RAP?  It's only one of their greatest tunes.  If you think these studies do no damage - then you are naive. 

On itunes and elsewhere on the net the biography of Queen that is put out for the public now states that
We Are The Champions is a Gay anthem.  Really?  How did that happen?  Likely from some other rag writer!  There's so many.

But why should you care about any damage on your car's windshield?  Isn't that the funny things you like to write about?  That action sums you up.  So pardon me - If I swerve past your messy crime scene.

I don't think lyrics can ever really be separated from the music for analysis of content for the purpose of finding meaning when the person writing the music is also writing the lyrics.  It might be different with a person who only writes lyrics such as is the case (I think ... not sure) with Bernie Taulpin (don't know the spelling of his name).  From what I remember reading, he would write the lyrics then mail them to Elton John and Elton would make up the music to fit the lyrics.  But in the case of a musical genius such as Freddie, I think the music is coming out of the imagination first and then certain words ... even if nonsensical would be chosen just to fit the tempo, feel or mood of the music.  Or did he hear the music and lyric at the same time in his mind?  There is a video of Queen working on a lyric to a song with Freddie insisting they add or take away a syllable to make it fit the beat of the music.  But I think it was a Roger Taylor song they were working on.  I'm not saying there is no meaning in Freddie's lyrics because there does seem to be very deep and personal meaning in some songs ... especially in songs such as Jealousy or Love of My Life.  But with a song you can get just as much, and maybe much more, meaning from what is going on with the music, i.e. the music does the talking.  You have to be very clever and sensitive to do this type of writing and I think it is a pretty rare skill and takes someone who really understands and "gets" music.  If writing about music and not just lyrics is interesting to you, then I think it is a fitting subject/topic for you to work on.  But if you are only going to research the lyrics I would say that you might want to broaden your topic to lyrics of a variety of artists ... or possibly write about someone who only writes lyrics.  Hope this is helpful.  My other tip is to find out what your instructor finds interesting and write about that instead (you know ...).

Oh my QueenUSA.  I'm not even sure where to begin.  Bad artist bios and bad academic writing surely exist, as does bad tuna casserole, but I've never seem anybody  bay at the moon over the fundamentally perverse folly of fish and macaroni.  Usually it's more along the lines of  'needs more salt' or in my house 'really did you have to put in an *entire* can of peas?'.   Haranguing the original poster for a work that can't be possibly be assessed for value to any discourse because it doesn't even bloody exist yet, and Holly for posting something novel and relevant and substantial regardless of any individual's reception to the ideas therein seems well and truly irrational.  The more immediately relevant 'damage' I see is the successive driving away of new posters who arrive at Queenzone with a considered post on some version of this topic only to be bizarrely pooed upon.  These are people who are more likely than most to be intelligent and curious and generally an asset to the place.  It's an absolute shame.

The notion that art and artists shouldn't be considered and analyzed through any number of personal or cultural themes is absurd.  As always I think people doth protest waaaaay too much about Freddie and homosexuality.  A complete and utter projection of some kind of discomfort in your own head.  To me it's just a thing like any other thing fundamental to a person's experience that only the seriously blinkered would not expect it to show up or leak out now and again in an artist's creative output.  Brian talked about  coming to a gradual awareness somewhere beginning around Jazz that Freddie was attracted to men, and he spoke about trying from there on to write lyrics for Freddie that did not box him in to heterosexual expressions of love and sex .  If Fred's bandmate and friend can acknowledge that sometimes music does indeed have a sexuality maybe you can give managing that without apoplexy a whirl as well.

Oh dear nothing. There is no need for you to wring your hands.  I will agree there has been a trend of people coming here with this same topic and being set upon.  They will be okay -  this is not a nursery.  They can stand up for their ideas (or not) and they will have to do so in their classroom as well.  It's called life.  

That bio on Itunes seriously bothers me and it should bother you too. Someone needs to take responsibility for that.   

To the topic starter:  I hope you can see what a polarizing topic this can be.  Different people from different countries will disagree and have different mindsets and values. Write your paper and I'm sure some zombies out there will love to devour it and feed off it.  It's the News of the World album cover art come to life.  (oh dear!)

Thanks for your considerate comments Donna13 & GratefulFan.

Sadly, QueenZone is possibly the most angry, petulant and venomous forum I've ever witnessed in 15 years online, both professionally and personally. Moderators please take note.

Sincerely,
TK

Hold on, Triplekick.

You're the one coming on here, a family website, and want to discuss "sexual identity in art and literature".

Perhaps this is not the place for that and you're simply not taking the hint.  We're not a bunch of artsy-fartsies like you appear to be.  So go pour yourself another glass of Chardonney, play a nice round of Croquet, and go post on Corey Hart's website instead. 

Have a great day.

[QUOTE][/QUOTE]

[b]queenUSA wrote: [/b]You put up that academic rag of a paper back in April and seem to have NO capacity for critical thinking yourself.  See it for what it is. 

[/QUOTE]

Why have you no investment in BO RAP?  It's only one of their greatest tunes.  If you think these studies do no damage - then you are naive. 

On itunes and elsewhere on the net the biography of Queen that is put out for the public now states that
We Are The Champions is a Gay anthem.  Really?  How did that happen?  Likely from some other rag writer!  There's so many.

But why should you care about any damage on your car's windshield?  Isn't that the funny things you like to write about?  That action sums you up.  So pardon me - If I swerve past your messy crime scene. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm not entirely sure what investment I have in Bo Rap except to enoy it. I'm certainly not frightened away by the possibility it may have some references to Fred's personal life. I don't give a flying fuck about Itunes however or about what someone on there thinks about WATC. 

I don't have a car. I haven't committed a crime. Unless those were metaphors or allusions .... hmmmm... imagine that, someone using language that on the surface means one thing but underneath means another. Clearly that skill, mastered by anyone who understands even the basics of language, was beyond Fred ...

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[b]Micrówave wrote: [/b] Hold on, Triplekick.

You're the one coming on here, a family website, and want to discuss "sexual identity in art and literature".

Perhaps this is not the place for that and you're simply not taking the hint.  We're not a bunch of artsy-fartsies like you appear to be.  So go pour yourself another glass of Chardonney, play a nice round of Croquet, and go post on Corey Hart's website instead. 

Have a great day. [/QUOTE]
[b]There is a disturbing thread of anti-intellectualism going here, in what is ostensibly entitled "Serious Discussion". WTF is going on? Have I stepped out of some intellectual closet here? Have the morons taken over completely? All I did was ask a question, only to see it warped and twisted into something truly ugly and horrible. I never even mentioned Bo Rap! The message seems to be: Don't Ask Questions. Remind you of a book by George Orwell? Chile? Cambodia? Soviet Union?
[/b]
[b]So, in addition to "angry, petulant and venomous", we can now add "[i]fascist[/i]" to the characteristics of some members in this truly bizarre forum.

1. Microwave, I can't find any reference to a "family website" on QueenZone. Is this a reference to "family values" that certain sections of society use to repress any other view or lifestyle that they don't happen to agree with? Look at history: [/b][b]your logic leads to tyranny & fascism. If you can't grasp that concept, then read no further.

2. If this is indeed a "family website" then whose family are you talking about? Yours? Mine? The Manson Family? Josef Fritzl's Family?[/b][b] Fascists are very good at having peculiar ideas about what "family" is or isn't. [i]Ein volk, ein kinder - [/i]get the picture, fascist?

3. "This is not the place for you" - and whom might you be to judge this? What a mean-spirited, intolerant, thinly-veiled message of hate - not unlike, guess what? FASCISTS!

4. "Artsy-farties" - Now this is classic uninformed arrogant thinking, just like a real fascist. Microwave, [i]what you think Freddie Mercury studied?[/i] [i]ART![/i]  He was a Chardonnay-sipping artsy-fartsy queer, you know? So now, by your own argument, you now exclude Freddie Mercury from your intolerant world view.[i] And also this very website![/i] Nice one, fascist.
Would you put Freddie and all those wine-sipping art students onto the train to Auschwitz? You'd better add most of the members of Pink Floyd to that train too, you hateful ignorant fascist. And also Jimmy Page, Eric Clapton... need I go on, you hate-mongerer?
What's tragic is that some people seem to forget that there are many countries in the world RIGHT NOW where homosexuals and intellectuals are MURDERED. For either asking questions or being artsy-fartsy queers.

5. Your world-view smacks of "us and them" thinking. Which kinda goes against nearly everything Freddie & the lads wrote about, which was Love. Yes, LOVE! Not hate. Listen to Skrewdriver for that kinda thing. When Queen sang of "one solution" in One Vision, please know they weren't thinking of the Final Solution, which is where your logic leads, you fascist.

6. It would appear that fascism is close to the hearts of a fair few people here. How has this happened? If this is you, then remember:[i] in a world under the ideology you consciously or unconsciously follow, THERE WOULD NEVER BE A BAND LIKE QUEEN.[/i] As a degenerate faggot pervert under your New World Order, Freddie would've been murdered long before he got a chance to don sequins and mascara, let alone near a stage or studio. Is this the world we've created? Is this the world YOU want?

The irony here would be humorous if it wasn't so utterly pathetic. The internet brings out the worst side of humanity, really. So easy to type without really thinking, being led by one's emotions not reason.

I'd say that some of you have a childish mentality, but I'd like to give children more credit than that. After all, we are born to love and we can only be taught to hate. Who taught you?

Good luck to those who have to put up with the fascist morons. I admire your tenacity. No doubt the morons will continue to self-righteously and arrogantly mock what I've written, parse it to hell, twist it around, and always, ALWAYS FILL THEIR NEED TO HAVE THE LAST WORD. Just. Like. Fascists.

I am so out of this forum. I can hear the fascists clapping in a warped notion that they've "won". A sociologist or therapist would have a field day here.

TK [i]x mwah x[/i]
[/b]

Some of you need to get a grip. The guy focuses on Mercury's homosexuality... OMG, how dare he?... this could have made for quite an interesting debate too.

To the OP, some lyrics to look further into...

early ; Good Old Fashioned Lover Boy, Killer Queen
later ; Get Down Make Love, Body Language

[QUOTE]

[b]Micrówave wrote: [/b] Hold on, Triplekick.

You're the one coming on here, a family website, and want to discuss "sexual identity in art and literature".

Perhaps this is not the place for that and you're simply not taking the hint.  We're not a bunch of artsy-fartsies like you appear to be.  So go pour yourself another glass of Chardonney, play a nice round of Croquet, and go post on Corey Hart's website instead. 

Have a great day. [/QUOTE]
Well as hazings go, I'd say that was wildly successful.  LOL  Maybe TK will stick around long enough for us to rag him/her someday about that time Microwave called Queen 'a family website' with a straight face and managed 'Corey Hart' and 'Croquet' in the same sentence, thereby prompting a 48 paragraph rant about fascism.  You often make me laugh, but this was subtle and classic.

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[b]TripletKick wrote: [/b]

Sadly, QueenZone is possibly the most angry, petulant and venomous forum I've ever witnessed in 15 years online, both professionally and personally. Moderators please take note. [/QUOTE]
There are no moderators effectively.  Honestly, it's great.  But it's not for everyone.  And I can certainly see why you've drawn the impression you have, but it's not accurate.  Well not entirely accurate. :)