TripletKick
Have I just been "played"? Oh bugger. What a twat I can be. Damn my sincerity.
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Posts in chronological order
tcc
[QUOTE]Micrówave wrote:
........So go pour yourself another glass of Chardonney..... [/QUOTE]
It should be Moet et Chandon from a pretty cabinet :-)
........So go pour yourself another glass of Chardonney..... [/QUOTE]
It should be Moet et Chandon from a pretty cabinet :-)
CosmosTales
Reply: There is a video of Queen working on a lyric to a song with Freddie insisting they add or take away a syllable to make it fit the beat of the music. But I think it was a Roger Taylor song they were working on...
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Exactly Donna i was thinking in that scene too. It is from the making of "One Vision", i think this is a very good example how great part of Queen songs had the involvement of the four, even if it was very small..
I think relating the lyrics of certain songs with the sexuality of Freddie is very limited.. In my opinion in a qroup like Queen there is so much more things involved in the construction of the songs that the reflection of the sexual orientation of one men in the lyrics.
It is definitely not only one man job, Donna gave a very good example of this in her post.
In a band like this and like the video of One vison showed a single word could be easily misinterpreted by the general public. I can even doubt when earing a song if that word has a meaning for the Band or it was just put there to fit in the melody.
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Reply: Sadly, QueenZone is possibly the most angry, petulant and venomous forum I've ever witnessed in 15 years online, both professionally and personally. Moderators please take note
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We are not angry or petulant or even venomus...In your first post you suposed a lot of things it was obvious that you would get some bad feedback in this issue.
I think most of the negative comments were because your assumptions about the relation between lyrics and sexuality, as I remember Freddie never spoke of this matter and because of this there are several opinions and interpretation of each one of us.
I thinhk we still would like to ear your justifications about the suppositions in your first post...
By the way Professionaly?, really? I thing you and your studies are taking this too seriously
This is just entertainment, even science can not justifie some people and their acts how could your studies and you justifie "the personal journey of self-development and identity of on man" like Freddie
....
_______________________________________________________________________________________
Exactly Donna i was thinking in that scene too. It is from the making of "One Vision", i think this is a very good example how great part of Queen songs had the involvement of the four, even if it was very small..
I think relating the lyrics of certain songs with the sexuality of Freddie is very limited.. In my opinion in a qroup like Queen there is so much more things involved in the construction of the songs that the reflection of the sexual orientation of one men in the lyrics.
It is definitely not only one man job, Donna gave a very good example of this in her post.
In a band like this and like the video of One vison showed a single word could be easily misinterpreted by the general public. I can even doubt when earing a song if that word has a meaning for the Band or it was just put there to fit in the melody.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________
Reply: Sadly, QueenZone is possibly the most angry, petulant and venomous forum I've ever witnessed in 15 years online, both professionally and personally. Moderators please take note
________________________________________________________________________________________________
We are not angry or petulant or even venomus...In your first post you suposed a lot of things it was obvious that you would get some bad feedback in this issue.
I think most of the negative comments were because your assumptions about the relation between lyrics and sexuality, as I remember Freddie never spoke of this matter and because of this there are several opinions and interpretation of each one of us.
I thinhk we still would like to ear your justifications about the suppositions in your first post...
By the way Professionaly?, really? I thing you and your studies are taking this too seriously
This is just entertainment, even science can not justifie some people and their acts how could your studies and you justifie "the personal journey of self-development and identity of on man" like Freddie
....
TripletKick
I don't which is worse: The many bizarre assumptions that have been made about my original questions - which were merely questions I might add. I was asking about other academic research, not wishing to go into a long debate (ooh the irony of me writing this!) about something that [i]hasn't even been researched yet[/i]. Note the use of the word "preliminary" in my OP.
Or all this "we" business that "you" keep referring to. As if "you all" are some kind of Borg Queen entity, a Hive Mind, who all think the same and pounce on anything that seems to irk you. Rather than a polite "sorry mate I don't know" all that seems to be written is: "YOU JUSTIFY YOUR THREAD OR DIE MUTHAFUKKA!" Eek! Excuse me, I'll just go sacrifce myself to the Kurgan or Ming.
How can I possibly answer when I don't know the answer! Or barely researched the bloody thing. I got two or three constructive replies (thank you!); the rest were attacks, mockings and insults. I mean, why bother indeed! Again, there's a weird anti-intellectualism going on here which is wrapped up in a convenient "oh it's just a joke" ha ha ha. And again, all in the "serious discussion" thread, where I mistakenly thought one might get a "serious" answer, not frivolity. Silly me. Maybe I should have shouted out the question to Freddie at Slane Castle in '86 and not have bothered here in the first place.
Or all this "we" business that "you" keep referring to. As if "you all" are some kind of Borg Queen entity, a Hive Mind, who all think the same and pounce on anything that seems to irk you. Rather than a polite "sorry mate I don't know" all that seems to be written is: "YOU JUSTIFY YOUR THREAD OR DIE MUTHAFUKKA!" Eek! Excuse me, I'll just go sacrifce myself to the Kurgan or Ming.
How can I possibly answer when I don't know the answer! Or barely researched the bloody thing. I got two or three constructive replies (thank you!); the rest were attacks, mockings and insults. I mean, why bother indeed! Again, there's a weird anti-intellectualism going on here which is wrapped up in a convenient "oh it's just a joke" ha ha ha. And again, all in the "serious discussion" thread, where I mistakenly thought one might get a "serious" answer, not frivolity. Silly me. Maybe I should have shouted out the question to Freddie at Slane Castle in '86 and not have bothered here in the first place.
GratefulFan
[QUOTE]
[b]TripletKick wrote: [/b] Have I just been "played"? Oh bugger. What a twat I can be. Damn my sincerity.[/QUOTE]
Well, you've been Microwaved, which is worse than 'played' because you won't even get a metaphorical 'Ha ha' with a clap on the back and a belated welcome to the forum at the end of it. But don't feel too bad. He recently convinced inu-liger that Zebonka was dead in the 'Zebonka Thread' in the Personal section in way less words.
Somewhat hilariously I found a clearly fascist version of 'Sunglasses at Night'. Well, all Corey Hart videos are kind of hilarious, but you know what I mean.
tcc
I think people try to read into the homosexual aspect of the lyrics only from hindsight upon knowing his homosexuality. If you don't know, you will accept the songs as written for the opposite sex as we would normally expect.
When I read Shakespeare's sonnet "Shall I compare thee to a summer's day", I assumed that it was wrritten for a lady. It was only many many years after I left school that I came to know that it was written for a man.
When I read Shakespeare's sonnet "Shall I compare thee to a summer's day", I assumed that it was wrritten for a lady. It was only many many years after I left school that I came to know that it was written for a man.
GratefulFan
I forgot to post this earlier:
http://bib.tiera.ru/dvd46/Peraino%20J.A.%20-%20Listening%20to%20the%20Sirens.%20Musical%20Technologies%20of%20Queer%20Identity%20from%20Homer%20to%20Hedwig(2006)(369).pdf
It's a PDF version of a book by music scholar Judith Peraino called 'Listening to the Sirens - Musical Technologies of Queer Identity from Homer to Hedwig'. There is (another) analysis of Bohemian Rhapsody beginning on page 230 as numbered in the text. I highly recommend QueenUSA not read it because I honestly think it might kill him. LOL This time the guns are phallic. What is it with academic chicks? LOL Like the Whitely essay there are some interesting things, some dubious, and this time a flat out inaccuracy or two. Still appreciated the read.
If nothing else this exercise has demonstrated that there is a need for some academic to consider a Queen song other than Bohemian Rhapsody. Jeez.
http://bib.tiera.ru/dvd46/Peraino%20J.A.%20-%20Listening%20to%20the%20Sirens.%20Musical%20Technologies%20of%20Queer%20Identity%20from%20Homer%20to%20Hedwig(2006)(369).pdf
It's a PDF version of a book by music scholar Judith Peraino called 'Listening to the Sirens - Musical Technologies of Queer Identity from Homer to Hedwig'. There is (another) analysis of Bohemian Rhapsody beginning on page 230 as numbered in the text. I highly recommend QueenUSA not read it because I honestly think it might kill him. LOL This time the guns are phallic. What is it with academic chicks? LOL Like the Whitely essay there are some interesting things, some dubious, and this time a flat out inaccuracy or two. Still appreciated the read.
If nothing else this exercise has demonstrated that there is a need for some academic to consider a Queen song other than Bohemian Rhapsody. Jeez.
GratefulFan
[QUOTE]
[b]tcc wrote: [/b] I think people try to read into the homosexual aspect of the lyrics only from hindsight upon knowing his homosexuality. If you don't know, you will accept the songs as written for the opposite sex as we would normally expect.
When I read Shakespeare's sonnet "Shall I compare thee to a summer's day", I assumed that it was wrritten for a lady. It was only many many years after I left school that I came to know that it was written for a man. [/QUOTE]
That's true, but it says nothing about what's was there to be seen, only what made it through the filters of the experience and expectations of the heterosexual majority. Much of it would be unconscious anyway. One gets the impression Fred intended for example to make 'Get Down Make Love' universally applicable, but it's almost unreachably homoerotic to me.
[b]tcc wrote: [/b] I think people try to read into the homosexual aspect of the lyrics only from hindsight upon knowing his homosexuality. If you don't know, you will accept the songs as written for the opposite sex as we would normally expect.
When I read Shakespeare's sonnet "Shall I compare thee to a summer's day", I assumed that it was wrritten for a lady. It was only many many years after I left school that I came to know that it was written for a man. [/QUOTE]
That's true, but it says nothing about what's was there to be seen, only what made it through the filters of the experience and expectations of the heterosexual majority. Much of it would be unconscious anyway. One gets the impression Fred intended for example to make 'Get Down Make Love' universally applicable, but it's almost unreachably homoerotic to me.
queenUSA
[QUOTE]
[b]GratefulFan wrote: [/b] I forgot to post this earlier:
[url=http://bib.tiera.ru:80/dvd46/Peraino%20J.A.%20-%20Listening%20to%20the%20Sirens.%20Musical%20Technologies%20of%20Queer%20Identity%20from%20Homer%20to%20Hedwig(2006)(369).pdf] http://bib.tiera.ru/dvd46/Peraino%20J.A.%20-%20Listening%20to%20the%20Sirens.%20Musical%20Technologies%20of%20Queer%20Identity%20from%20Homer%20to%20Hedwig(2006)(369).pdf[/url]
It's a PDF version of a book by music scholar Judith Peraino called 'Listening to the Sirens - Musical Technologies of Queer Identity from Homer to Hedwig'. There is (another) analysis of Bohemian Rhapsody beginning on page 230 as numbered in the text. I highly recommend QueenUSA not read it because I honestly think it might kill him. LOL This time the guns are phallic. What is it with academic chicks? LOL Like the Whitely essay there are some interesting things, some dubious, and this time a flat out inaccuracy or two. Still appreciated the read.
If nothing else this exercise has demonstrated that there is a need for some academic to consider a Queen song other than Bohemian Rhapsody. Jeez. [/QUOTE]
====================
Jeez indeed. And why not pimp out BoRap again and again - it's like the village bicycle by now,
everyone's had a ride.
And considering you found errors off the bat ... what further embarrassing company is this ... an American author this time 'round.
One review of the book began "A fresh and innovative study ..... "
As Shakespeare penned (and presumably tried to educate) in Henry VIII, "Woe upon ye, and all such false professors." His words, not mine.
Jeez indeed.
[b]GratefulFan wrote: [/b] I forgot to post this earlier:
[url=http://bib.tiera.ru:80/dvd46/Peraino%20J.A.%20-%20Listening%20to%20the%20Sirens.%20Musical%20Technologies%20of%20Queer%20Identity%20from%20Homer%20to%20Hedwig(2006)(369).pdf] http://bib.tiera.ru/dvd46/Peraino%20J.A.%20-%20Listening%20to%20the%20Sirens.%20Musical%20Technologies%20of%20Queer%20Identity%20from%20Homer%20to%20Hedwig(2006)(369).pdf[/url]
It's a PDF version of a book by music scholar Judith Peraino called 'Listening to the Sirens - Musical Technologies of Queer Identity from Homer to Hedwig'. There is (another) analysis of Bohemian Rhapsody beginning on page 230 as numbered in the text. I highly recommend QueenUSA not read it because I honestly think it might kill him. LOL This time the guns are phallic. What is it with academic chicks? LOL Like the Whitely essay there are some interesting things, some dubious, and this time a flat out inaccuracy or two. Still appreciated the read.
If nothing else this exercise has demonstrated that there is a need for some academic to consider a Queen song other than Bohemian Rhapsody. Jeez. [/QUOTE]
====================
Jeez indeed. And why not pimp out BoRap again and again - it's like the village bicycle by now,
everyone's had a ride.
And considering you found errors off the bat ... what further embarrassing company is this ... an American author this time 'round.
One review of the book began "A fresh and innovative study ..... "
As Shakespeare penned (and presumably tried to educate) in Henry VIII, "Woe upon ye, and all such false professors." His words, not mine.
Jeez indeed.
GratefulFan
[QUOTE]
[b]Donna13 wrote: [/b] I don't think lyrics can ever really be separated from the music for analysis of content for the purpose of finding meaning when the person writing the music is also writing the lyrics. It might be different with a person who only writes lyrics such as is the case (I think ... not sure) with Bernie Taulpin (don't know the spelling of his name). From what I remember reading, he would write the lyrics then mail them to Elton John and Elton would make up the music to fit the lyrics. But in the case of a musical genius such as Freddie, I think the music is coming out of the imagination first and then certain words ... even if nonsensical would be chosen just to fit the tempo, feel or mood of the music. Or did he hear the music and lyric at the same time in his mind? There is a video of Queen working on a lyric to a song with Freddie insisting they add or take away a syllable to make it fit the beat of the music. But I think it was a Roger Taylor song they were working on. I'm not saying there is no meaning in Freddie's lyrics because there does seem to be very deep and personal meaning in some songs ... especially in songs such as Jealousy or Love of My Life. But with a song you can get just as much, and maybe much more, meaning from what is going on with the music, i.e. the music does the talking. You have to be very clever and sensitive to do this type of writing and I think it is a pretty rare skill and takes someone who really understands and "gets" music. If writing about music and not just lyrics is interesting to you, then I think it is a fitting subject/topic for you to work on. But if you are only going to research the lyrics I would say that you might want to broaden your topic to lyrics of a variety of artists ... or possibly write about someone who only writes lyrics. Hope this is helpful. My other tip is to find out what your instructor finds interesting and write about that instead (you know ...).[/QUOTE]
A natural extension of your points is the fact that of the four Freddie was probably the one most often dismissive of his own lyrics and of any depth and significance they might have. He talked about not liking the exercise, declaiming that 'he wasn't a poet' and famously saying of course that his songs were disposable. I've heard something very similar from the brilliant Billy Joel who like Fred wrote classic, enduring and often beautiful and moving lyrics. He said the only reason he wrote lyrics for his music was because the public and the genre expected it. They both thought of themselves as composers first and reluctant lyricists second, and both were far less comfortable accepting acclaim and praise for the words they wrote.
I so get that. I am a computer programmer - my equivalent of 'the music'. I have come to specialize in programs that run on a web platform so as an extension of my job I also have to be a web designer - 'the words'. I hate that part. I hate doing it, I hate talking about it, and mostly I hate getting complimented for it. I'm not an artist. All I can see are the imperfections. I just last week completed a six month project and launched four new major websites for the organization I work for. The compliments and congratulations flowed all week, people sent me little gifts in the interoffice mail and the head of the organization made a special trip to my office to tell me how impressed she was, how 'incredible' they all looked and that I was 'very talented' and that they were going to be making further development in this vein an 'organizational strategic priority'. Sounds like a great week at work, right? Not. I hated it. I felt nothing but anxiety all week and can't wait for people to stop talking about them. I actually cried for like 15 minutes one night because I thought one of them was 'too green'. I mean, it's a bit insane, and I realize that intellectually, but emotionally it's difficult to work just outside the place where you do have absolute confidence - the music - and feel defined by unavoidable things more immediately on the surface.
All this talking about 'me me me' (ha ha) to say that just because the lyrics process seems mechanical at times, and diminished in importance by Fred himself, it doesn't mean that his own inner world wasn't all over those words a good deal of the time. It's unavoidable I think. Just because one might have to work within constraints - screen resolution and browser limitations and user expectations for me, or meter and and rhyme and song structure for Fred - doesn't mean you can avoid sourcing heavily from within. I'm still organizing flows of information that reflect the way my own mind works, I'm still choosing photographs for use on my sites that reflect what speaks to me emotionally and I'm still incorporating and developing designs that are the reflection of the technical aesthetic that is one of beauty and balance in my own eye. I'd bet heavily that the same goes for singers and their songs.
[b]Donna13 wrote: [/b] I don't think lyrics can ever really be separated from the music for analysis of content for the purpose of finding meaning when the person writing the music is also writing the lyrics. It might be different with a person who only writes lyrics such as is the case (I think ... not sure) with Bernie Taulpin (don't know the spelling of his name). From what I remember reading, he would write the lyrics then mail them to Elton John and Elton would make up the music to fit the lyrics. But in the case of a musical genius such as Freddie, I think the music is coming out of the imagination first and then certain words ... even if nonsensical would be chosen just to fit the tempo, feel or mood of the music. Or did he hear the music and lyric at the same time in his mind? There is a video of Queen working on a lyric to a song with Freddie insisting they add or take away a syllable to make it fit the beat of the music. But I think it was a Roger Taylor song they were working on. I'm not saying there is no meaning in Freddie's lyrics because there does seem to be very deep and personal meaning in some songs ... especially in songs such as Jealousy or Love of My Life. But with a song you can get just as much, and maybe much more, meaning from what is going on with the music, i.e. the music does the talking. You have to be very clever and sensitive to do this type of writing and I think it is a pretty rare skill and takes someone who really understands and "gets" music. If writing about music and not just lyrics is interesting to you, then I think it is a fitting subject/topic for you to work on. But if you are only going to research the lyrics I would say that you might want to broaden your topic to lyrics of a variety of artists ... or possibly write about someone who only writes lyrics. Hope this is helpful. My other tip is to find out what your instructor finds interesting and write about that instead (you know ...).[/QUOTE]
A natural extension of your points is the fact that of the four Freddie was probably the one most often dismissive of his own lyrics and of any depth and significance they might have. He talked about not liking the exercise, declaiming that 'he wasn't a poet' and famously saying of course that his songs were disposable. I've heard something very similar from the brilliant Billy Joel who like Fred wrote classic, enduring and often beautiful and moving lyrics. He said the only reason he wrote lyrics for his music was because the public and the genre expected it. They both thought of themselves as composers first and reluctant lyricists second, and both were far less comfortable accepting acclaim and praise for the words they wrote.
I so get that. I am a computer programmer - my equivalent of 'the music'. I have come to specialize in programs that run on a web platform so as an extension of my job I also have to be a web designer - 'the words'. I hate that part. I hate doing it, I hate talking about it, and mostly I hate getting complimented for it. I'm not an artist. All I can see are the imperfections. I just last week completed a six month project and launched four new major websites for the organization I work for. The compliments and congratulations flowed all week, people sent me little gifts in the interoffice mail and the head of the organization made a special trip to my office to tell me how impressed she was, how 'incredible' they all looked and that I was 'very talented' and that they were going to be making further development in this vein an 'organizational strategic priority'. Sounds like a great week at work, right? Not. I hated it. I felt nothing but anxiety all week and can't wait for people to stop talking about them. I actually cried for like 15 minutes one night because I thought one of them was 'too green'. I mean, it's a bit insane, and I realize that intellectually, but emotionally it's difficult to work just outside the place where you do have absolute confidence - the music - and feel defined by unavoidable things more immediately on the surface.
All this talking about 'me me me' (ha ha) to say that just because the lyrics process seems mechanical at times, and diminished in importance by Fred himself, it doesn't mean that his own inner world wasn't all over those words a good deal of the time. It's unavoidable I think. Just because one might have to work within constraints - screen resolution and browser limitations and user expectations for me, or meter and and rhyme and song structure for Fred - doesn't mean you can avoid sourcing heavily from within. I'm still organizing flows of information that reflect the way my own mind works, I'm still choosing photographs for use on my sites that reflect what speaks to me emotionally and I'm still incorporating and developing designs that are the reflection of the technical aesthetic that is one of beauty and balance in my own eye. I'd bet heavily that the same goes for singers and their songs.
CosmosTales
Reply: "YOU JUSTIFY YOUR THREAD OR DIE MUTHAFUKKA!"
__________________________________________________________________________________________
Well nobody here said that!
Once again you are taking your own conclusions. The only thing i said was that we would like to hear your opinion about the supositions that you made in your first post..
I´m starting to thing that you are avoiding answering this question, maybe because you dont have your own opinion or something else...
GF: About the video of Sunglasses at Night': What a awful taste....
__________________________________________________________________________________________
Well nobody here said that!
Once again you are taking your own conclusions. The only thing i said was that we would like to hear your opinion about the supositions that you made in your first post..
I´m starting to thing that you are avoiding answering this question, maybe because you dont have your own opinion or something else...
GF: About the video of Sunglasses at Night': What a awful taste....
Dane
"Oh shit! All this crap again?!"
Donna13
I think every little detail about Freddie was something to take in. So it wouldn't be just his musical abilities that would be appreciated but the entire person. His lyrics were so good. One of my favorites is "It's so easy .. but I can't do it. So risky ... but I gotta chance it. So funny ... there's nothing to laugh about. My money - that's all you want to talk about." You might get a certain understanding of what is being said here if you were to just read the words before hearing the song for the first time. But then you hear the music and the performance and all these other impressions hit you. I guess that is why the music in a movie can be so important.
OliverPhillips
Unbelievable amount of information related to the study of Freddie Mercury's life. There are factors that contradict each other. It's hard to talk about anything in particular. Especially when you're in college and you can't devote your time to it. I try to solve my study problems with the website [url=https://paperell.com/do-my-essay]https://paperell.com/do-my-essay[/url] where someone can do my essay homework. I hope that soon I will be able to free myself and fully devote my time to studying Freddy Mercury's autobiography. For now, life goes this way, but I want to develop not only in terms of study.
dudeofqueen
Wasn't Fred sexually fluid? Rotating between identifying as a lemur, a bottle of vodka or a pair of Brian's knickers, dependent upon how many consonants were in theat particular day of the week.