Kim Jong Il Dies

[QUOTE]The Real Wizard wrote:

Obama has done many great things, [/QUOTE]

Yes, things are much better in America now.  He fixed it all.

Micrówave wrote:

Yes, things are much better in America now.  He fixed it all.

=================

Obviously I see your sarcasm, but did I even imply he fixed everything?

He repealed DADT, he pushed for universal health care (and it was recently reported that 1.5 million additional young people now have health insurance), and ... for all you war-mongers.. bin Laden was killed on his watch.

Considering what he's been up against, I'd say he's done pretty well.

"Any of the previous presidents would have killed bin Laden if he was caught in their time in office"

Sure - if they had put a bit more effort in.  It was very fortuitous that he was tracked down the way that he was, but it only turned out that way because they'd decided to make him a priority again.  I guess blowing up opium farmers can only be fun for so long.  (Although I'd like to test that theory).

Bob:

Havel may have been a "man of peace", but he was never too big a man to crudely abuse his friends and acquaintances in his plays. He actually seemed to enjoy shaming them in front of the world, and apparently regarded that as fitting protest to communism.

So, what really killed him? I'm guessing, an orgy gone wrong, a bizarre sex act, or perhaps the cause of his death is somehow related to his "movie" collection.

So, what really killed him? I'm guessing, an orgy gone wrong, a bizarre sex act, or perhaps the cause of his death is somehow related to his "movie" collection.

[QUOTE]He repealed DADT, he pushed for universal health care (and it was recently reported that 1.5 million additional young people now have health insurance), and ... for all you war-mongers.. bin Laden was killed on his watch. [/QUOTE]

Wow!!!!  Let's give him the Nobel Peace Prize.   Oops.  (The committee is not too happy with that execution in Pakistan)

DADT - a policy that really ended up having no effect on the armed forces?  This was groundbreaking?!?!?  Anyone in the service will tell you that this issue really never bothered anyone except the media

He pushed for universal health care?  So did Clinton... both of em.  But you forget, we're not Socialists.  I don't want to pay for Juan Javier's health care, regardless of his immigration status... I'd rather pay for my own and choosemy own doctors.

Bin Laden?  This guy was reduced to living in a hovel, surrounded by Pakistanish Porn.  I really don't think that Obama stopped a major threat.  Besides, I though Obama actually pulled the trigger.

I was being sarcastic, but since you brought it up, I thought I'd just let you know how worthless those issues you brought up really were.

Unemployment has gone up "during his watch".  Banks are more profitable now than 4 years ago.  New Home construction is virtually non-existant, while pre existing home values continue to plummet.  Foreclosures are up, stocks are down... and the price of gas keeps swaying out of control.

But he's still got the next 4 years locked up...  so give him time.

Very amusing. Are you suggesting that the US government should subsidise the price of petrol to make it cheaper? So why is that fine for "gas" but not fine for health care? lol

That would never happen.  Oil & Gas run this country.

My suggestion is let Herman Cain back in and get him the win.  Right now this country needs 'devious'.  Send a few of Cain's "aides" down to those oil-rich countries.  Remember, Ghaddafi wanted to annoint Condoleca Rice Queen of Libya, probably would have gotten our gas down to $2/ gallon.

>>DADT - a policy that really ended up having no effect on the armed forces? This was groundbreaking?!?!? Anyone in the service will tell you that this issue really never bothered anyone except the media<< It is a major victory for anyone who values equality, as it is a substantial step towards gays and lesbians being treated as equal citizens.  So either you are suggesting the military doesn't value equality, or you are attempting to make a blanket statement on behalf of others to legitimize your own viewpoint. >>But you forget, we're not Socialists.<< Most people who use the word "socialist" don't even know what it means. Ensuring you have a country where people don't have to choose between feeding their kids and seeing the doctor does not mean you are subscribing to socialism. Every other developed nation in the world has a nationalized health care system. Is Germany socialist then? Canada? The UK? Australia? Show me the data that says these countries have ever had governments with socialist tendencies. >>I don't want to pay for Juan Javier's health care, regardless of his immigration status<< Do you honestly think it's only immigrants who can't afford to pay for health care? I know you're a far right ideologue, but even you should be immune to ignorance of this degree.  Katrina left a quarter of New Orleans below the poverty line.  Should we just tell them to get a job? >>I'd rather pay for my own<< And what about those who can't afford it? Do you simply leave one fifth of the country behind while your tax dollars pay for the military complex? Billions of dollars a day are spent on defense, but leaving people to die because they can't afford an operation is ok with a christian nation, whose beliefs supposedly consist of loving thy neighbour? These same people are fine with sending their children off to die in war but are against abortion? The hypocrisy is just mind-boggling to most people outside of your borders. >>and choose my own doctors.<< More FOX propaganda? Show me one nation with universal health care where the state does not give you the right to choose your own doctor. A society is ultimately judged by how it treats its weakest and most vulnerable members, not its most affluent. >>Unemployment has gone up "during his watch".<< Believe it or not, the worldwide recession is not Obama's fault. Unemployment has increased in most of the developed world over the last few years, regardless of what political leanings the ruling parties have. Only a few countries have managed to escape it, like Norway, Austria, The Netherlands and Brazil. >>Banks are more profitable now than 4 years ago.<< This also has nothing to do with Obama. It's the same thing here in Canada. The banks continue to post record profits while 40% of the country lives near or below the poverty line. They created the financial crisis and we bailed them out. It's not just in your country where the bankers run the show. >>New Home construction is virtually non-existant<< This is the private sector, so you can't blame politicians for that.  And if it was government, then that would be called subsidized housing, or in your language, "socialism." >>while pre existing home values continue to plummet<< Bush lowered interest rates, telling everyone in post-9/11 America to consume. It's biting everyone in the ass now. This is not Obama's fault. >>and the price of gas keeps swaying out of control<< If you don't like high gas prices, do your part and buy a hybrid or electric car. The US demands and consumes more oil than any other nation in the world. If people's habits gradually changed over time (i.e. alternative energy sources), the demand for oil wouldn't be so great. Everyone would win, except of course the oil companies. So they will continue to lobby against such changes, because you can't tax wind, water, ethanol or geothermal energy. If and when the US comes close to making these alternatives a reality on a wide scale some day, cue the right wing propagandists calling the government a nanny state, the same way they did when the US food guide was updated earlier this year to battle growing obesity. Anything to appease corporations and maximize profits. But you're already decades behind Europe. They've been doing this stuff since the 70s. Sweden and Germany's environmental regulations are an example for the rest of the world. Never let facts get in the way of your ideology, or your arguments may be exposed for what they are - flimsy at best, completely baseless at worst.

Dude, I hope you’re not taking this personally…
[QUOTE]It is a major victory for anyone who values equality, as it is a substantial step towards gays and lesbians being treated as equal citizens.  So either you are suggesting the military doesn't value equality, or you are attempting to make a blanket statement on behalf of others to legitimize your own viewpoint. [/QUOTE]
No, the military doesn’t value equality.  They never have.  That’s why they have ranks.
[QUOTE] Most people who use the word "socialist" don't even know what it means.[/QUOTE]
No, but me paying for everybody’s healthcare and then having no say in who I get to see is a form of Socialism.
[QUOTE] Katrina left a quarter of New Orleans below the poverty line.  Should we just tell them to get a job?[/QUOTE]
Not all of them, but the few I met who came to Dallas to get tattoos with their government stipend, yes.  They should be looking for jobs, not tattoos.
[QUOTE] And what about those who can't afford it?[/QUOTE]
Not my concern.  I work hard.  (“I work out” – LMFAO)  Why should I have to pay taxes on my income for someone who collects a check for having kids?
[QUOTE] Show me one nation with universal health care where the state does not give you the right to choose your own doctor.[/QUOTE]
Ok.  Rowanda
[QUOTE] Believe it or not, the worldwide recession is not Obama's fault. [/QUOTE]
It wasn’t Bush’s either.
[QUOTE]>>Banks are more profitable now than 4 years ago.<<

This also has nothing to do with Obama.[/QUOTE]
Oh, this most certainly does!!!!  Here’s a new loophole.  I work for a bank, by the way.  If my employer decided to give me a bonus this year… they have to pay taxes on that bonus.  If my employer decides to throw a big party for our staff, every expense is a write-off.  Guess who didn’t get a bonus but had a nice time at the company party this year?  Thanks Barack!
[QUOTE] Bush lowered interest rates, telling everyone in post-9/11 America to consume. It's biting everyone in the ass now. This is not Obama's fault. [/QUOTE]
Interest rates are lower now than they ever were under the Bush regime.  The 30 year fixed is at an all-time low.  I didn’t blame Obama or Bush for this, though.  Whoever lets Bernake stay in charge is responsible for this now.  Oh year, that’s Obama.
[QUOTE] Never let facts get in the way of your ideology, or your arguments may be exposed for what they are - flimsy at best, completely baseless at worst.[/QUOTE]
I didn’t… you did.

Bob, we're talking about a nation that also ideologically likes to participate in ridiculous conspiracy theories as if they were the bible. ie. 9/11 being an "inside job"
Tell me, has Wikileaks revealed ANYTHING of revelation value in regards to 9/11?

And Microwave, Bush Jr. CERTAINLY had a role in the housing market collapse that helped cause the worldwide recession. He had EIGHT years in office wherein he could have kept a close eye and regulate the banks that were responsible for being greedy giving out mortgages to people they KNEW couldn't afford them in the first place, but Bush did FUCK all with keeping the banks on a leash

>>Dude, I hope you’re not taking this personally…<< I'm not.  Just a good ol' fashioned political debate. >>No, the military doesn’t value equality.  They never have.  That’s why they have ranks.<< Fair play.  But the assertion that nobody outside of the media cares about DADT has absolutely no connection to reality.  The 10% of the US population that's gay cares, as do a hell of a lot of heterosexual people interested in equal rights for everyone.  And there are plenty of people beyond your borders who are always happy to hear about any step towards inclusiveness and understanding. >>but me paying for everybody’s healthcare and then having no say in who I get to see is a form of Socialism.<< Who said you'd have no say in which doctor you'd get to see under universal health care?  It is a baseless statement, with nothing remotely factual to back it up.  If you're going to engage in an exchange of ideas, stick to facts instead of talking points that make you sound like a blogger paid for by some Republican think tank. Everyone's tax dollars will eventually go towards something they don't approve of.  But if I'm reading you correctly, you're more unhappy about paying for the health care of the poor than paying to bail out the bankers, or paying to invade middle eastern countries on the quest for oil and dominance?  Is ensuring every American is healthy (or "socialism," if you insist) really that much worse? >>the few I met who came to Dallas to get tattoos with their government stipend, yes.  They should be looking for jobs, not tattoos.<< Absolutely, agreed.  As for the rest of the people in New Orleans left in poverty, what do you suggest we do to help them get back on their feet (especially those who have been denied medicaid) ? >>Why should I have to pay taxes on my income for someone who collects a check for having kids?<< Another blanket statement.  But at least you're not insisting they're all immigrants now.  Could we at least have some consistency?  In your eyes, who precisely should and should not have the right to have an emergency appendectomy? >>If my employer decided to give me a bonus this year… they have to pay taxes on that bonus.  If my employer decides to throw a big party for our staff, every expense is a write-off.  Guess who didn’t get a bonus but had a nice time at the company party this year?  Thanks Barack!<< Ha ha!  Interesting perspective to lighten the mood.  Never heard it put that way before.  I certainly hear your frustration.  But try this angle - imagine, if you didn't have to pay for health insurance, that could've been the bonus money.  And tens of millions more people could have health care, not just you !