Grammys 2012 Results

[QUOTE]

[b]Sergei. wrote: [/b] Many die-hard Lady Gaga fans were spitting fire when they realized Mother Monster wasn't going to be winning diddly squat for Born This Way. They can take a seat, because this was Adele's year for being in The Spotlight, and most people never thought for a minute that BTW would win a single Grammy anyway.[/QUOTE]

Gaga knew it too this year I think.  She even skipped the red carpet I believe.  Gaga was gracious throughout, only once showing nerves and an emotionally invested composer's rather naked hope I thought waiting for the announcement in the category in which she was nominated alongside Adele for 'You and I".  I think in another field in another year that song might have won something.   She's said she feels it the best thing she's ever written and I think she might be right.  In that moment, watching Gaga's face, despite the worthiness of Rolling in the Deep - I felt for her.

[QUOTE]

[b]Donna13 wrote: [/b] ... and I guess the intention of the composer and other variables ...

Anyway I learned something by looking it up.[/QUOTE]
Me too. :) I found a neat article which described the evolution of the terminology from earliest opera to the present day.  Part of the confusion for all trying to understand the terms is that early terminology described vocal parts rather than vocal types.  So while the contemporary use of contralto and countertenor almost exclusively describe female and males voice types respectively, they originally described vocal lines that could be sung by a number of performers - a boy alto, castrati, a man with a high natural voice, a female later in in history because of the church prohibitions etc.  It also described the evolution of the term countertenor - originally a tenor line that later got split between a low and a high possibility with the terms countertenor bassus and countertenor altus replacing the original countertenor descriptor.  Today's countertenor seems to describe that historical countertenor altus across many languages.   Anyway, it was all pretty interesting.  I suspect TQ's information might be historical and relevant to much of opera in general rather than something more exclusive to the modern Dutch.

[QUOTE]

[b]thomasquinn 32989 wrote: [/b] [QUOTE][b]....[/b]alto (which, ironically, can mean both "high" and "deep" in Latin, meaning it could either be taken as the highest male voice, or the deepest female one).
[/QUOTE] [/QUOTE]
The nuance of the translation "deep" from Latin seems to be related to something more like 'profound' rather than 'low'.  Interestingly, or maybe not, some descriptions of contralto also describe it as a part for 'serious' characters.  I wonder if this was always the case.

[QUOTE] [b]GratefulFan wrote:[/b]
[QUOTE] [b]thomasquinn 32989 wrote: [/b] [QUOTE][b]....[/b]alto (which, ironically, can mean both "high" and "deep" in Latin, meaning it could either be taken as the highest male voice, or the deepest female one).[/QUOTE] [/QUOTE] The nuance of the translation "deep" from Latin seems to be related to something more like 'profound' rather than 'low'.  Interestingly, or maybe not, some descriptions of contralto also describe it as a part for 'serious' characters.  I wonder if this was always the case.[/QUOTE]
The Latin "altus" is a physical description (compare "altitude"). It means "high", as in "a high wall", or deep, as in "a deep ravine". It specifically refers to vertical distance, but with complete disregard for whether that vertical distance is up or down.
I'm really no expert on vocal music, I know a lot more about the history of instrumental composition, so I'm not sure how the contralto was historically used, character-wise. I'm pretty sure it'll be in "A History of Western Music", though.

Hang on just a few hours more about the Dutch-contralto thing, I'll have my textbook at hand three hours from now!

[QUOTE]

[b]thomasquinn 32989 wrote: [/b] The Latin "altus" is a physical description (compare "altitude"). It means "high", as in "a high wall", or deep, as in "a deep ravine". It specifically refers to vertical distance, but with complete disregard for whether that vertical distance is up or down.
I'm really no expert on vocal music, I know a lot more about the history of instrumental composition, so I'm not sure how the contralto was historically used, character-wise. I'm pretty sure it'll be in "A History of Western Music", though.

Hang on just a few hours more about the Dutch-contralto thing, I'll have my textbook at hand three hours from now![/QUOTE]
With my smidgen of new information on a topic I know little about it's become interesting to ponder the selection of 'altus' for that historical vocal/line range.  The word is closely related and sometimes synonymous with words and concepts like exalted, profound, abyss etc.  And it's interesting because high and deep as related concepts are different than high and low as related concepts, aren't they.  Deep usually implies a distance into or through something else, like the ground, but even today we think about musical notes in terms of high and low and voice in terms of high and deep.   So just why is alto 'alto'? It's right in the middle of everything, neither particularly high nor particularly deep.  Perhaps that's why - it's both deep and high relative to either extreme of the human voice, as you noted previously, though of course women were not in the picture as performers when these operatic terms developed.  But it seems to be more closely associated with 'high' in music.  So we're back to why is it actually in the middle? LOL  As I mentioned I also wonder about some of the other related meanings in terms of the types of characters composers chose to express with the 'altus' vocal line, or any other.   There is a saying among contraltos today that they are limited to playing "witches, bitches or britches". Perhaps the tone and range of any voice was important as a storytelling device, an aural expression of a broad stereotype or stereotypes.   Perhaps that's blindingly obvious and I'm just babbling.  Anyway, a bit of a meander from the original topic but I've enjoyed it.

[QUOTE] [b]Sergei. wrote:[/b]
Many die-hard Lady Gaga fans were spitting fire when they realized Mother Monster wasn't going to be winning diddly squat for Born This Way. They can take a seat, because this was Adele's year for being in The Spotlight, and most people never thought for a minute that BTW would win a single Grammy anyway.[/QUOTE]


More than Lady Gaga bothering, the people who piss the shit out of me are some of those Little Monsters. They were posting shit about Adele being fat, and then they complain about being picked on for being gay, geeky, or freaky.

I'm sick of that whole Gaga/Glee cult of 'society outcasts'. As a person who was bullied in his school days, I think they need to grow up.

Danny, don't mess with my glee... But yes, some Gaga fans are a pain ijn the ass... Good for Adele, she deserved to win. Great álbum and great year

Great to see someone else win for a change
I was happy Gaga lost
It was Adele's turn to shine! I wonder how her next album will be, since she said she was done writing break up music.
I hope she doesn't go back to it anytime soon! I listened to 21 and surprisingly didn't like it. I only really liked Rolling in the Deep and Set Fire to the Rain, which is a truly beautiful and extremely emotional song!
I want to hear what she sounds like when she's happy and in love :P
I'm definitely tuning in to see what she sings next. She's got the feeling and sound. And she's not one to sugarcoat. I love that about her!

I hope she doesn't have the angry chick effect... That ended with Alanis Morissette's career

XD ahahahahaha! That really did didn't it??
I hope she doesn't do a music video where she's naked and has long hair either! It'd be great to see how her current relationship will affect her new material! Although I was going through a terrible break up when I listened to Adele, I couldn't help but want to hear her sing something happier. Her smash hit was my anthem for that break up XD
See I quite like these posts
We can tease singers and have opinions without people posting with a broomstick up their asses! The whole Adam Lambert posts really are just annoying now with people getting defensive and trying to convince everyone Adam Lambert is so special
Thats why the best posts are here :]

[QUOTE] [b]***Marial-B*** wrote:[/b]
I hope she doesn't have the angry chick effect... That ended with Alanis Morissette's career[/QUOTE]

Alanis became less angry after 'Jagged Little Pill', and embraced a more spiritual and experimental approach. However, a lot people still perceive her as the angry chick from the 90s. She wasn't as successful, but still kept considerable a loyal following.

The only thing that could damage Adele's career is if years down the line she's still writing songs about break-ups. She needs to move on from that.

Btw Mari >-D... I avoid Glee at all costs because the few times I've seen it, a song I love is ruined. Then when I hear the original, it all reminds me of the Glee version.

[QUOTE] [b]Mr.Jingles wrote:[/b]
[QUOTE] [b]***Marial-B*** wrote:[/b]
I hope she doesn't have the angry chick effect... That ended with Alanis Morissette's career[/QUOTE]
Alanis became less angry after 'Jagged Little Pill', and embraced a more spiritual and experimental approach. However, a lot people still perceive her as the angry chick from the 90s. She wasn't as successful, but still kept considerable a loyal following.
The only thing that could damage Adele's career is if years down the line she's still writing songs about break-ups. She needs to move on from that.
Btw Mari >-D... I avoid Glee at all costs because the few times I've seen it, a song I love is ruined. Then when I hear the original, it all reminds me of the Glee version.[/QUOTE]

It's true about the Glee songs: I have to admit that some are quite good and others not. But I love their rendition of Fat Bottomed Girls, Hello Goodbye and Highway to Hell.

About Alanis, what I meant is that she still is respected and I am still a fan, but "Jagged Little Pill" is the album that she got famous with just because she showed the woman's side of a breakup and other stuff that makes women angry in general. And after that she hasn't sold an album that good as this one... maybe her unplugged but not a studio album.

[QUOTE] [b]***Marial-B*** wrote:[/b]
I hope she doesn't have the angry chick effect... That ended with Alanis Morissette's career[/QUOTE]

Ever hear of Cady Groves? She's an up and coming singer and I've heard people claiming shes the next Alanis, ugh.