Amnesty International

[QUOTE]

[b]Amazon wrote: [/b] "they responded with a series of insults including towards a family member of mine."

I can only rember one other member doing so, for which an apology was quickly issued.
[/QUOTE]

For the record, that 'insult' was an attempt to be light [i]with[/i] Microwave, not at his expense.   I ended that post by saying "And on a family forum!" which was a reference to a post of his that made some poor newbie angrily type out a wild diatribe about fascism.   I had told him I thought it was brilliant on that thread and thought my reference to it would make my intentions clear.  However when it was misconstrued I realized that it was far too abstruse and the possibilities for both misunderstanding on his part and insensitivity on my part had been too great and I shouldn't have written it at all.  My priority at the time was a clear and sincere apology so rather than muddy it with an explanation that served my interests I left it at that.  But if it's going to be haunting me like Banquo's ghost the fact is that the "insult" was no such thing at all.

And really there is no "we" or "they" either.  I had underestimated at the time as well how determined Microwave was to misunderstand me.    He posts like Bob and I are some kind of Canadian tandem assault squad when the truth is that if you locked Bob (who I like and appreciate and respect if not always see eye to eye with) and I in the same room for 24 hours it's unlikely we'd be able to agree on three things about the United States.  Microwave and Americans in general do have to put up with a lot of anti American rhetoric that people generally don't feel any particular burden to prove or support or contextualize, but who would bother to stick up for him?  I went out of my way on that Marine thread to point out my belief that people shouldn't focus too much on the United States, that I didn't think that Microwave supported that behaviour, that many many Americans has a similar initial response and that I really valued the right wing perspective in any complete and balanced conversation.  I think what I said was "1000% interested in what you have to say".  And for all that trouble I had him completely reinvent what I said and what I thought and to an extent even what I'm about.  And permanently draft me into this weird "they".  I post by myself and for myself and the whole experience really underscored that trying to talk to Microwave about serious matters is a bit like having your head in a Waring blender while inadequately secured to the world's craziest roller coaster.  Not much makes sense, you never know quite know where anything came from or how it relates to anything else in the material world and you can be sure you'll be spending a great deal of time arguing about stuff you never said.  But good luck to all those trying.  He's a lunatic of sorts, but a smart and funny one, and QZ is much better off with him than without him.  But have a serious conversation with him about Amnesty International?  I wouldn't try.

[QUOTE] [b]GratefulFan wrote:[/b]
trying to talk to Microwave about serious matters is a bit like having your head in a Waring blender while inadequately secured to the world's craziest roller coaster.  Not much makes sense, you never know quite know where anything came from or how it relates to anything else in the material world and you can be sure you'll be spending a great deal of time arguing about stuff you never said.[/QUOTE]
Once again - you should be a writer.

[QUOTE]But have a serious conversation with him about Amnesty International?  I wouldn't try.[/QUOTE]

It hasn't been.

It got perverted into "YOU SUPPORT THE DEATH PENALTY" and "YOU ARE SO AMERICAN" before a discussion could be had.

Notice how key points have beenavoided and replaced by opinions on what 'proper thinking' should be.   A few state that AI stands up for people's freedoms but then attack me about The Death Penalty, the nationality of a Scotsman, accuse a Texan of invading land his ancestors lived on for several hundred years, and for not sharing the same beliefs they do!!!  Amazing!

Who's 9?

I should have just asked IF QUEEN TOURED THE AMNESTY TOUR IN 1985, WHAT SONGS FROM INNUENDO SHOULD THEY PLAY?

My apologies GF. I know you would never do sinething like that, I was just responding to Microwave's absurd attempt to play the victim. BTW, I agree with Bob that you would make a great writer! :D

My apologies GF. I know you would never do something like that, I was just responding to Microwave's absurd attempt to play the victim. BTW, I agree with Bob that you would make a great writer! :D

"We're not talking about other organizations here, we're talking about the shady Amnesty International.  The ones who list their assets at 7 Million Pounds, but gave a half million to the "General Secretary" when she resigned.  Why don't you talk about that?"

Because it's BS. You express such anger towards them (saying they should be shut up) and you expect us to believe that the reason is because you think they pay too much money to their head? It's a pretext. 

Oh, and why put her job description in inverted commas?

"We're talking about AI, the ones who paint up a one-sided picture"

They are an anti-death penalty group!!! What part of that do you not understand? 

"and make the convict the victim,"

He is facing execution, so he is a victim. As I said, they're an anti-death penalty group.

"without even presenting one shed of light about the crime..."

Maybe they don't believe that ANYONE should be executed?

"and also give their "opinions" about rehabilitization of convicts they've never even met or interviewed!!"

That may not be wise but it doesn't detract from their mission. 

"Why don't you talk about that? I have, you just choose to ignore my answers.

"We're talking about Amnesty International which told workers based outside the UK they will no longer have the right to remain members of the UK-based Unite union.  In response, Amnesty workers said they were stunned by the attack, which came without warning.  ‘Now every time I write or work on discrimination issues, I will think about how Amnesty workers outside London are being treated by the senior management in London,’ said one."

That's all very well, however do you really expect anybody to believe that it's not a pretext?

 "Why don't you talk about that?"

Is that your new catch phrase?

"This isn't about if I support the death penalty or not."

Yes, it darn well is, and we know that you do, so at least have the guts to acknowledge it!

"In fact... that may be part of the problem right there!!!!  Just like "a woman's right to chooose"...  it's really none of your business what I choose to support or not support."

It becomes my business when you start a thread in which you demonstrate support for the death penalty, yet refuse to admitt that you support it, and instead lie about how you oppose it. If you don't think it's anyone's business, then DON'T START A THREAD ABOUT IT.

"Why are you making that such an issue?"

Because I dislike having debates with someone who is intellectually dishonest.

"Instead of the name-calling, insulting, and subject changes, why not address one of the valid points here?  It might get the topic back to what it's about:  Not the Death Penalty, peeing on marines, etc..."

Oh, give me a break, you clearly didn't read anything that I wrote. You talk about name calling and insulting, however you need to look in the mirror. As for peeing on marines, you brought it up! You brought it up, and you accuse me of carrying out subject changes and not addessing valid points? God, you're a hypicrite!

As for the death penalty, this thread IS ABOUT THE DEATH PENALTY!! How delusional can you be? You start a thread about the death penalty and you don't like that I'm talking about, gasp, the death penalty?

"(1)AI stating that Iran must be stopped, after two years ago stating that we need to stop being so critical of Iran."

I agree, it's terrible that AI changed their mind when presented with new evidence. I'm guilty of doing the same. I have particular views, which I might hold for years, but which I change because of new evidence or changing circumstances. As an example, when I was younger, I thought that the US was the greatest country in all the world. I since realized my mistake.

GF is right, you are a child.

"(2) The death row inmate press kit, complete with medical diagnosis and legal analysis."

I thought this thread wasn't about the death penalty. Oh, that's right, it's only about the death penalty when it suits you, and not when it's morally and intellectually inconvenient. 

"That's what I have a problem with.  Comprende?"

Jackass.

So you're the Defender Of The Death Penalty' guy?

Jackass.

[QUOTE]Someone needs to shut this organization down.

(oh, I know I'm gonna take Hell for this!!!)

No, not because they "try" to better our world... they are just another example of the Left blurring out fact.  Today they release a report that Iran is in severe violation of several acts.  This, just two years after stating that Iran is being unfairly targeted by the Western world (particularly the US).  Now they expect the Western world (particularly the US) to do something about it!!!!  [/QUOTE]

In case you can't read.  So far... no death penalty.  But then, you probably don't see REAL words.  Just what you WANT to see.  This must mean I'm for killing people.

Then I gave three example, Jackass.

And I closed it with "When will people wake up and stop sending money to organizations like this.  They don't give you the full story, just theirs... they have an agenda, obviously, and not the one they're claiming.  This has nothing to do with supporting capital punishment, which I don't.  It's about presenting a fair, fact based report... not their sugar-sweetened version of it."

So, Jackass, where does this say I'm for killing people.  Please be specific.  Don't say "well, in another thread you said..."

You said:
[QUOTE]It becomes my business when you start a thread in which you demonstrate support for the death penalty, yet refuse to admitt that you support it, and instead lie about how you oppose it. If you don't think it's anyone's business, then DON'T START A THREAD ABOUT IT.[/QUOTE]

So now answer the simple question penned to you.  Don't clog it up with a bunch of shit....  WHERE IN MY THREAD DID I DEMONSTRATE 'SUPPORT FOR THE DEATH PENALTY'???

I expect that to go unanswered and instead replaced with insults or ignored.

UPDATE:
[b]Bob[/b] - Check
[b]Amazon [/b]- Check

[QUOTE] [b]Amazon wrote:[/b]
I agree, it's terrible that AI changed their mind when presented with new evidence. I'm guilty of doing the same. I have particular views, which I might hold for years, but which I change because of new evidence or changing circumstances. As an example, when I was younger, I thought that the US was the greatest country in all the world. I since realized my mistake.
[/QUOTE]

What's wrong with you? Personal growth leaves you susceptible to attacks from small-minded people who will forever quote you on things you said in years past. The best way around this problem is to remain with the same basic set of viewpoints you had when you were 8. Consistency is key here.

And just to be clear, this has really been the only intelligible reply in this entire thread. 

[QUOTE]

[b]YourValentine wrote: [/b] I do not understand your criticism re Iran. AI has issued hundreds of statements and reports and carried out numerous urgent actions concerning Iran.

http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/iran

On the above page you find 100 pages of detailed actions back to 2007. That does not mean AI did not do anything before 2007, it only means the earlier actions are not online. AI has fought against human right violations in Iran since the days of Shah Pahlewi.

As to the death sentence cases you list - yes, AI is against death sentences as are most civilized nations on this planet. It is a main concern for AI to fight against death sentences. I am not familiar with all of the cases you listed but one must be extemeley heartless in my book to plead for the execution of a mentally disabled person (Wood's IQ was under 70, not under 100). When a legal system declares a person sane only to be able to execute him, something is very wrong with that system. Oh yes - of course he was black like the overwhelming majority of executed people in the USA.

You can plead for the death sentence, after all you are not alone with this opinion(luckily more and more people change their minds)but do not blame AI for doing what they must do: fight against the death penalty wherever it happens.[/QUOTE]

YV and I are in no way "Queen buddies" like a few of you seem to be, but at least she doesn't have to resort to the crap that Amazon, The Real Hippo, and others have been clogging this with.

[QUOTE] The Real Hippo wrote: Personal growth leaves you susceptible to attacks from small-minded people who will forever quote you on things you said in years past[/QUOTE]

Umm... isn't that how Amazon has replied to me in this thread???  As a small minded person who will forever quote me on things I said?

Damn, I believe Bob took a shot at you without even realizing it.  Not only is he ignorant but also not very crafty with words.

"So you're the Defender Of The Death Penalty' guy?"

What the hell are you talking about?

"Jackass"

How original.

"In case you can't read.  So far... no death penalty."

Are you seriously this dumb? You refer to the death penalty in your OP but you only bother to quote back the sentences which did not mention it, and you think that means anything?

"But then you probably don't see REAL words.  Just what you WANT to see."

Yeh, you are seriously that dumb. 

No, unlike you, I do read real words, and unlike you, I don't just read what I don't want to see. I also don't selectively quote. 

Don't pretend that you weren't talking about the death penalty, surely you're not that delusional.

"This must mean I'm for killing people."

In the case of the death penalty, you are.

"Then I gave three example, Jackass."

Yes, to do with the death penalty! Jackass, you do just realize you've proven my point? That the death penalty is pretty relevant in this topic? Fool.

"And I closed it with "When will people wake up and stop sending money to organizations like this.  They don't give you the full story, just theirs... they have an agenda, obviously, and not the one they're claiming.  This has nothing to do with supporting capital punishment, which I don't.  It's about presenting a fair, fact based report... not their sugar-sweetened version of it." "

Except you DO support the death penalty, your OP proves it.

"So, Jackass, where does this say I'm for killing people.  Please be specific.  Don't say "well, in another thread you said..."

I don't need to refer to another thread. Every time, you talk about telling the whole story, about how they could have chosen better executed people to support, when you said "see if you feel sorry for these three", when you said to imagine it was someone you knew who had been murdered, when you said "My point about the executions is that they word it up to sound like these poor criminals have been treated unjustly", and I could go on.

Oh, there was also your lovely comment that 'If you asked me, they should have let him finish the job'.

"So now answer the simple question penned to you.  Don't clog it up with a bunch of shit....  WHERE IN MY THREAD DID I DEMONSTRATE 'SUPPORT FOR THE DEATH PENALTY'???"

See above.

"I expect that to go unanswered and instead replaced with insults or ignored."

If you are going to ask someone a question, at least have the COURTESY to wait until after they answered instead of making predictions?!

BTW, thanks yet again for proving what a hypocrite you are. You still haven't acknowledged that you support the death penalty and instead, in a delusionsal and dumb attempt, you even tried to pretend that that the death penalty isn't of relevance in this thread!

So you're saying that I was "pretending" to talk about the death penalty??!?!?

You still haven't acknowledged WHERE I supported the death penalty. Please, quote my words, Mr. Quotations.

So if I'm a hipocrite/hipicrite (you spelled it both ways genius), then I guess you're full of shit.?Really???  I was "Pretending"???  That's what you based your rant on?!?!?  Words I pretended to say? 

See, I was right about you too.  Amazon - Check.

"Umm... isn't that how Amazon has replied to me in this thread???  As a small minded person who will forever quote me on things I said?"

You are calling me small minded? That's a joke. I wasn't aware that you knew what small minded meant.

You may not be intelligent enough to realize this, but EVERY single thing I quoted you on, you said in this thread!

"Damn, I believe Bob took a shot at you without even realizing it.  Not only is he ignorant but also not very crafty with words."

You wish. You're also not in a position to call anyone ignorant.

I didn't call you ignorant, Amazon. That was to Bob.

Bob called whoever "Small Minded". He may have been referring to me, but ended up summing us BOTH up there. We're both using Quotes.  Remember he said he was no longer acknowledging my existance... so I take it he was referring just to you.

Actually, I thought you were pretty intellegent up until this thread.

I pretended to say something?!?!?  How are you "in a position" to say that?