Adam Lambert: No talk of U.S. Queen dates

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[b]queenUSA wrote: [/b] Vocal Harmony ... I agree.

Someone said the songs will be meaningless if AL sings them and that is too bad. We are all human beings walking this Earth and I have a feeling by the time of the gig the songs will mean alot to AL and that will come across bigtime because the song meanings are personally coming true for him ... consider:

"I've done my sentence ... but committed no crime. And at mistakes ... I've made a few. I've had my share of sand kicked in my face ... but I'd come through"

When he sings "I'd come through" he needs to be committed to nailing it!

What other songs will be meaningful by then?
IWTBF
UP
TSMGO

I hope he totally nails all of it!! So all you meanies out there with your mean streak set on high - get ready.

This show is going to rock!

Adam CAN do it.[/QUOTE]
I suspect Lambert is thoroughly unaffected by any of what is essentially a tempest in teapot in the big picture.   First it's always been clear to me that he thinks pretty highly of himself - an asset of sorts in a tough business in which unwavering self confidence is both armor and fuel.  But more key is the fact that he'll likely please the vast majority just fine.  More casual fans are not that discriminating and aren't going to notice the sleight of hand that replaces a musician of immeasurable creativity and talent and subtlety with a big voiced interpreter with an impressive range and a closet full of pleather.  On the same principle I could go to a Beatles tribute show or something and have a great time listening to the hits while committed superfans were writhing in the aisles and on the internet in angst.  I wouldn't know what's missing or properly perceive the exquisite things lost in translation.   And neither will most of the people who will be at Knebworth.  He's got the publicly expressed confidence of Brian and Roger and a borrowed catalogue so flush with riches that even a deaf man could love it.   You think he's sweating any of this?  I certainly don't.

Your story arc is a nice little tale - and not without irony given how narrative dependent reality shows like American Idol are - but I don't think there's much real there.   You can tell yourself whatever fables you like - and dot them with 'meanies' and 'mean streaks' and the fantasist notion that there is some inherent superiority in being 'optimistic' and 'supportive' in the face of evidence to the contrary - but there is not going to be  any triumph pulled from any ashes because he's already won the gig and literally not one person in any position of influence cares one whit about any of the criticism coming from the superfan community, and we can have no affect on anything.  The only people who care about what we have to say are the fellow fans that feel that same way, and people can't even let those conversations go on - the only meaningful outlet we have -  without endless interruption and histrionics like this.

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[b]kosimodo wrote: [/b] I hope Adam can deliver those songs Paul for sure not could. He can sing. Play the game, Save me, Spread your wings are some of the songs Adam can deliver for sure better then Paul. So i give him a change. [/QUOTE]
On the contrary, these are exactly the kind of songs that he poops all over.    He's terrible to my ears and my - I don't know, heart? soul? - with anything that has an emotional climax.  He might be good on things like Radio Gaga and other songs that are more even and melodic like that.

For me, he's from the Celine Dion, Whitney Houston, Michael Bolton school of singers. Big voiced belters with no nuances in their repertoire. Can't get into that. If, and these days, that's an 'elephant in the room' if, Brian and Roger were being honest they'd see what others see about his hit and miss vocals. But the reason it's Adam Lambert instead of deserving singers in their peer group with skins on the wall and artistic talent (Billy Squier, Gary Cherone, Taylor Hawkins, Tom Chapin, Jeff Scott Soto) has nothing to do with vocal talent, it's that they are hoping that AL brings their music to a new demographic. After all, didn't they bend over backwards saying that they didn't want someone (like Paul Rodgers) to imitate Freddie? PR was his own man, doing the songs his way. Now it's another off-Broadway singer, the male Kerry Ellis that no one in the rock world that Queen once lived in cares about, that serious musos laugh at.

[QUOTE] [b]GratefulFan wrote:[/b]
The only people who care about what we have to say are the fellow fans that feel that same way, and people can't even let those conversations go on - the only meaningful outlet we have -  without endless interruption and histrionics like this.[/QUOTE]

Honestly Grateful Fan are you grateful for other points of view without labeling them an interruption?

As to histrionics. ... How can you judge from your perch after inflicting the tiresome 100 worst ideas and the Dr is in - all for the sake of bashing AL. Even you have had your moments!

Relative to the substance of my posts about Lambert and those of others with similar ideas, 'another point of view' is something  like "I like Adam and look forward to the concert .  I think he'll do a great job."   That's another point of view.  'Meanies' and 'mean streaks' and 'get over it' and 'grow up' and "chronic negativity" and 'it's interesting to watch people squirm over change' and any number of other founts of nonsense - those are interruptions.   Many people are so flush with a sense of something like moral superiority on this issue that they (you) don't even recognize the qualities of their (your) own posts.   Perhaps that's how it escaped you that the 100 WORSE Ideas (not BETTER  ones, right?) was barely about Lambert at all.  And the Doctor is In was about the collective YOU - not Lambert.  A attempt to point out how rude and unfair and undermining all the casting of anti-Lambert opinion in such personal terms was and is in a lighthearted way, after failing to so effectively more conventionally,  while still trying really hard not to be mean or offensive to anybody in particular.  Even though quite frankly there are a number of you who deserved it by that point.  You really can't step out of your own stuff for long enough to conjure even ONE singer who might have really disappointed you?  And how that might have made you feel?To even try to imagine the feelings - and feelings is what they are in my case - of people who are just really disappointed in this choice?  No?  Fine.  Just stop interrupting me with your belittling, unsolicited and off base analyses of what's going on in my head.

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[b]Sheer Brass Neck wrote: [/b] . But the reason it's Adam Lambert instead of deserving singers in their peer group with skins on the wall and artistic talent (Billy Squier, Gary Cherone, Taylor Hawkins, Tom Chapin, Jeff Scott Soto) has nothing to do with vocal talent, it's that they are hoping that AL brings their music to a new demographic.  [/QUOTE]
That seems to be the conventional wisdom, but I question it.  Lambert is a relatively young man, but the core of his fanbase being neither young nor male is anything but.  I've thought a few times that Lambert's management is actively trying to almost get away from the middle aged female fan base, and Adam has as much to gain if not more by getting the eyes and ears of 10s of thousands of people young enough to have no qualms about standing in a big field all day long.  There are official presences in the official Lambert forums that are almost disparaging at times to the super dedicated 'Glamberts' who make up  the membership there.  Curt, referencing 'Claymates', things like that.  And Lambert's second album and altered look is a very deliberate departure from the glitter and glam that was and is a defining attraction for his nostalgic middle aged fans to the point that they embedded it right into their self identification with the 'Glambert' moniker.  So somebody's trying to expand their appeal to include new and younger fans, but I'm really not sure it's just Queen.

"What makes one "worthy" of singing with Queen?"

Basically, nothing. Why do you think they didn't do it when Queen still existed??

What people are ignoring is that really, Queen doesn't exist. It's awesome that they still play the songs and (intermittently) put on a great show. It is their legal and moral right to do whatever they want with the name and the catalogue. But really, Queen - *actual Queen* is a dead duck and has been for a long time. I had hopes that they'd carry on making music on their own. "No One But You" was proof that they were at least musically viable, if nothing else.

Having read up the page a bit, I piss on the notion that Gary Cherone is (or ever was) fit to be on stage with anyone. He's horrible.

[QUOTE] [b]GratefulFan wrote:[/b]
And how that might have made you feel?To even try to imagine the feelings - and feelings is what they are in my case - of people who are just really disappointed in this choice?  No?  Fine.  Just stop interrupting me with your belittling, unsolicited and off base analyses of what's going on in my head.[/QUOTE]

I do have the feelings, of course I do. Brenski's remark upon it was the best I saw that captured it well. There is real suffering going on. Yet ... How will tearing each other apart help the situation. It's disheartening really. I do not share those traits and behaviors. I've not belittled you, nor targeted you for analysis. You're the self declared Dr. Not me. Brian is the real Dr by the way (sorry for the unsolicited reminder of that fact).

Adam getting to the final round of AI means that millions of Americans voted it that way. I will not turn my back on an American, whilst he's down and being compared to scrap meat. One thing about the EMA crowd reaction, they had their arms outstretched the entire time - maybe they wanted that scrap meat because they've been starved for the music live so long they are not too particularly picky if it has goat vibrato and the C4 missed at this point. Many may find it sad, even outrageous - but that's the state of things. I hope it can be improved.

I wasn't promoting or suggesting Gary Cherone as a candidate, or the candidate. Nor Taylor Hawkins as he's limited vocally. But why not them, or the others instead of Adam Lambert? A show with Taylor Hawkins fronting would be a great rock show. Would he do justice to The Millionaire Waltz? Doubt it. But he got Brian and Roger onstage to do Long Away, Sleeping on the sidewalk and got them to stretch. I mean I love '39 to death, but it's been a staple since 1976. That's 46 years this year that it's been "the acoustic song." And he's got an energy that Adam Lambert will never has as he is nor of that world. Musicals and rock and roll are different beasts, and try as they might, they can't make Adam Lambert into a rock and roll singer.

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[b]queenUSA wrote: [/b] I do have the feelings, of course I do. Brenski's remark upon it was the best I saw that captured it well. There is real suffering going on. Yet ... How will tearing each other apart help the situation. It's disheartening really. I do not share those traits and behaviors. I've not belittled you, nor targeted you for analysis. You're the self declared Dr. Not me. Brian is the real Dr by the way (sorry for the unsolicited reminder of that fact).

Adam getting to the final round of AI means that millions of Americans voted it that way. I will not turn my back on an American, whilst he's down and being compared to scrap meat. One thing about the EMA crowd reaction, they had their arms outstretched the entire time - maybe they wanted that scrap meat because they've been starved for the music live so long they are not too particularly picky if it has goat vibrato and the C4 missed at this point. Many may find it sad, even outrageous - but that's the state of things. I hope it can be improved.[/QUOTE]
What is 'meanies' with 'mean streaks' if not analysis?  Nobody is referring to  you as a sycophant with a gushing streak or a dramatist with a patriotic streak, are they?  No, they're not.  Do you know why?  Because it would be extraordinary thoughtless to take what I can only assume is a considered opinion based on your own tastes and experiences and sensibilities and turn it into a an irrelevant swipe at your character and necessarily ignorant commentary on your psychology. This is not about 'tearing each other apart' because it's almost exclusively one sided.  The constant undermining in one way or another of people who have supported their concerns about the choice of Lambert six ways to Sunday only to be repeatedly swatted at on a  personal level by people with apparent comprehension problems and/or delusions of superiority.  

You can support Lambert because you enjoy him as a performer, because the criticism moves you to be an advocate, because he's your countryman or because you like him in mauve.  It's all good, and the positive counterpoint is important. I'm sure your thoughts, right up until the point they try and ride roughshod over somebody else's thoughts, will be respected and welcomed.  But when you slide into making your points on the backs of other people, don't be surprised if you get more of this.

The mean don't have to be analyzed so - it's self revealed for all to see, whether manifested at the workplace, schoolyard, online, etc. And when it appears it runs the risk of being confronted as we all continue the process of coexistence.

Puffed up self righteousness and an apparent dearth of a sense of humour run a similar risk.

That's the first time I've seen anyone advocate "patriotism" as one of the standards by which we should judge music :0

[QUOTE] [b]GratefulFan wrote:[/b]
[QUOTE] [b]queenUSA wrote: [/b] Vocal Harmony ... I agree. Someone said the songs will be meaningless if AL sings them and that is too bad. We are all human beings walking this Earth and I have a feeling by the time of the gig the songs will mean alot to AL and that will come across bigtime because the song meanings are personally coming true for him ... consider:"I've done my sentence ... but committed no crime. And at mistakes ... I've made a few. I've had my share of sand kicked in my face ... but I'd come through"When he sings "I'd come through" he needs to be committed to nailing it!What other songs will be meaningful by then?IWTBFUPTSMGOI hope he totally nails all of it!! So all you meanies out there with your mean streak set on high - get ready. This show is going to rock! Adam CAN do it.[/QUOTE] I suspect Lambert is thoroughly unaffected by any of what is essentially a tempest in teapot in the big picture.   First it's always been clear to me that he thinks pretty highly of himself - an asset of sorts in a tough business in which unwavering self confidence is both armor and fuel.  But more key is the fact that he'll likely please the vast majority just fine.  More casual fans are not that discriminating and aren't going to notice the sleight of hand that replaces a musician of immeasurable creativity and talent and subtlety with a big voiced interpreter with an impressive range and a closet full of pleather.  On the same principle I could go to a Beatles tribute show or something and have a great time listening to the hits while committed superfans were writhing in the aisles and on the internet in angst.  I wouldn't know what's missing or properly perceive the exquisite things lost in translation.   And neither will most of the people who will be at Knebworth.  He's got the publicly expressed confidence of Brian and Roger and a borrowed catalogue so flush with riches that even a deaf man could love it.   You think he's sweating any of this?  I certainly don't. Your story arc is a nice little tale - and not without irony given how narrative dependent reality shows like American Idol are - but I don't think there's much real there.   You can tell yourself whatever fables you like - and dot them with 'meanies' and 'mean streaks' and the fantasist notion that there is some inherent superiority in being 'optimistic' and 'supportive' in the face of evidence to the contrary - but there is not going to be  any triumph pulled from any ashes because he's already won the gig and literally not one person in any position of influence cares one whit about any of the criticism coming from the superfan community, and we can have no affect on anything.  The only people who care about what we have to say are the fellow fans that feel that same way, and people can't even let those conversations go on - the only meaningful outlet we have -  without endless interruption and histrionics like this.[/QUOTE]

Your point honestly sums it up, or as the song goes, nothing really matters, you are right.

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I suspect Lambert is thoroughly unaffected by any of what is essentially a tempest in teapot in the big picture. First it's always been clear to me that he thinks pretty highly of himself - an asset of sorts in a tough business in which unwavering self confidence is both armor and fuel. But more key is the fact that he'll likely please the vast majority just fine. More casual fans are not that discriminating and aren't going to notice the sleight of hand that replaces a musician of immeasurable creativity and talent and subtlety with a big voiced interpreter with an impressive range and a closet full of pleather. On the same principle I could go to a Beatles tribute show or something and have a great time listening to the hits while committed superfans were writhing in the aisles and on the internet in angst. I wouldn't know what's missing or properly perceive the exquisite things lost in translation. And neither will most of the people who will be at Knebworth. He's got the publicly expressed confidence of Brian and Roger and a borrowed catalogue so flush with riches that even a deaf man could love it. You think he's sweating any of this? I certainly don't. Your story arc is a nice little tale - and not without irony given how narrative dependent reality shows like American Idol are - but I don't think there's much real there. You can tell yourself whatever fables you like - and dot them with 'meanies' and 'mean streaks' and the fantasist notion that there is some inherent superiority in being 'optimistic' and 'supportive' in the face of evidence to the contrary - but there is not going to be any triumph pulled from any ashes because he's already won the gig and literally not one person in any position of influence cares one whit about any of the criticism coming from the superfan community, and we can have no affect on anything. The only people who care about what we have to say are the fellow fans that feel that same way, and people can't even let those conversations go on - the only meaningful outlet we have - without endless interruption and histrionics like this.

You are absolutely correct. No doubt about it.
However, what AL fans do not realise is that singing apart, he just does not have that charisma, that magnetism that came effortlessly to Freddie. Many have tried to imitate them; very few have succeeded, and certainly not AL. Freddie MADE you love him. Brian, Roger and John are brilliant musicians no doubt, but Freddie was a star! His performances touched the audience, no matter whether his voice was in perfect shape that day or not. A live performance is a lot more than just the voice and pitch; and AL just does not have what it takes. Sorry. As Grateful Fan wrote, my opinion will certainly not make any difference.