What REALLY happened

[QUOTE] [b]GratefulFan wrote:[/b]
[QUOTE] [b]YourValentine wrote: [/b] GratefulFan- you are dilusional - I have no other word for it. There is a group of people who apparently does know zero about what happened and what was the deal while you, who were never a part of the group, are the only person in the world who knows what happened. Just think about that. If you were a judge and 20 citizens would testify against a thief you would definitely believe the thief- just for the heck of it. Certainly the 20 citizens must be in the wrong.[/QUOTE] You know those trial thingies you like in theory for people in Guantanamo Bay but not for people right under your nose?  Well they have people in roles that advocate for fairness in the process for accused.   It's got nothing to do with delusion, I'm not claiming to know what happened and I'm not being contrarian for it's own sake.  Fuller could be a full on psychopath and done all he's been accused of and more for all I know.  I'd still be troubled by the mob response relative to the holes in what has been presented as evidence.  Separate from whether or not he's 'guilty' it bothers me that more people didn't stop and question more things.  I don't "believe the thief", I distrust the mob.[/QUOTE]

I am in agreement with GF, and am disappointed with the mob mentality of many hardcore collectors.

However, I do feel that John Stuart has a right to be upset concerning Fuller's actions. I always admired John and I still admire him.

Years ago I was subjected to the same mob vindictiveness for sharing mp3's. However there were a few hardcore collectors that defended me despite my own very hostile attitude.

That being said, I am encouraged by BMW's evenhanded reply to GF. Perhaps QZ can now return to normal and a certain ethically challenged ex-Fanthology member can be forgotten (or his rants ignored)

You may not be a collector brENsKi, but you certainly post like your one of them.

"you and your cronies". . . . . . Sorry do I know you?

JSS and his secret group are fools, for the reasons I've already listed.

Whether a professional artist has 100 million in the bank or nothing, it is still illegal to take and use whatever they have created without either paying for it or asking pemission. The fact that JSS and his coven are jumping about an ex member posting material that they have no legal right too is a joke.

As for you saying that what they are doing is increasing interest in a band with a 40 year history and almost 300 million sales is just plane utter stupidity.

By the way I have never bemoaned someone hearing a rare item played at a convention. . . . Blah blah blah
Maybe you're talking about your self or your cronies.

So JSS has spent all his spare time writing about the history of Queen releases, and for that reason I can't call him a fool. Well it's his time to do what he wants with, if he wants to portray him self as the last word on Queen releases and rarities that's up to him.

Well here's a carrot to dangle in front of JSS and his coven.
Mid 70's live album mixed down onto one inch reel to reel. Never got to the planning for release stage because EMI thought it was the wrong time for such a project. The 24 track is stored safely . JSS has a copy of it and the art work. . . . .
Does he hell, that goof and his secret society don't even know of it's existence, or where and when it was recorded. Funny, he's the expert in all of this but in reality he knows less than he thinks.

The fact remains he deals in stolen music and operates in some kind of illuminate wannabe organization.

He and his group are a thieving joke

btw - "the traders" did not thieve anything. they paid for items. you can argue the merits of people within the inner sanctum of QPL leaking/stealing/borrowing things, by all means. but don't blame people for wanting to buy the stuff once it's out there.

the princple here is not about what they did. because people like you were not moaning what collectors do when houston etc got uploaded, and all of the bbc sessions. the arument is whether or not someone inside the group broke and agreement. and as regards principles - he's the one to be judged.

although i have to say, the way you seem to see the justice scales "dishing out what the collectors deserve this time" - i'd hate to be a victim of crime in your fucking kangaroo court.

you're a thieving joke, because you expect everything for free.

anyone who calls JSS a fool/thief/selfish is either completely ignorant or is an attention seeker.

dbl post

If you knowingly buy stolen property you are as guilty as the person who stole it. There is no question of doubt that JSS, in paying for what he has in his rareties collection, is guilty. And for his stupid elite group of collectors to make a fuss about an ex member posting stuff is just plain idiotic.

As far as a kangaroo court is concerned. If your talking about principles amounts a bunch of bootlegging thieves and whether one is guilty because he has posted something that legally is not theirs in the first place, then I guess that is where the kangaroo court is operating. Not out here in the real world where I am saying that these guys are a bunch of thieving bootleggers. Whether they've payed for what they have or not.

[QUOTE] [b]brians wig wrote:[/b]
Fuller leaked something whilst he was still a group member: something which John owns the one and only copy of and says he has NEVER done copies for anyone else.
[/QUOTE]

Are you referring to the Reaction stuff or Is It Me because I can tell you with 100% certainty that John is not the sole owner of either of these recordings? If you mean original acetate or reel maybe, but digital/cassette, no.

This thread is getting beyond ridiculous...

Vocal harmony -

What was stolen????

A discarded Hangman acetate?

Audience recorded Hectics tapes?

"Bell Boy" home recordings given freely by Peter Freestone?

BBC sessions erased by the BBC?

Audience recordings of concerts the band was to lazy to record themselves?

If you are to make accusations, you should provide evidence.

If John Stuart is as guilty as you say he is, why is he a respected musical journalist and not rotting in a jail?

Vocal Harmony, you do realize that posts like yours making unfounded posts accusing JSS & co. of knowingly dealing on stolen goods without solid factual evidence constitutes libel and can seriously land you in court, or in jail if found guilty and convicted.
If Google can be successfully subpoenaed into handing over user info and IP addresses (and they have!), then there's nothing stopping QZ from being forced by law to do the same.

Govern yourself accordingly

Artists are payed publishing and royalty fees for what is sold with their names on it.

If someone buys a product which has not been officially released, then the artist receives nothing by way of payment. Whether it's an acetate, an unofficial live recording or a rare demo, makes no difference. I very much doubt that any of these rare items have found their way onto the market with the bands seal of approval. If that is the case, the person selling them is at best operating on the fringes of legality as is anyone who buys such items.

As I said earlier if a ex member of your elitist group of collectors has posted something on the internet that has been bought outside the realms of copyright then I don't think anyone can do or say much about it, after all the legal owner is the person who wrote it, because no royalties have been payed for it's use you are not in a position to complain.

It's been pointed out in this thread that your reasoning behind your secret collection group is to keep peoples interest in an otherwise largely forgotten band. . . . Really?

Interesting that you have felt the need to mention that you think you may have some Disney art. Why mention that in a Queen forum. And why are you not sure that you have, or is that another secret group?

If like you've said you have nothing in your secret group collection that you shouldn't have then all is well and good. But if you have unreleased, or live, or demo material then I stand by what I have said. That you have songs that have been stolen and then sold on and if that's the case then you are as guilty as the person the bought them from, because saying you didnt realize won't wash with your apparent knowledge of the subject. If that isn't the case and the rare material you and your group have hidden only amounts to rare low numbers of officially released product that anyone could have bought at the time of release then I'm sorry for suggesting otherwise

vh -

So, you are vociferously accusing some of theft without a shred of evidence based on your flimsy opinion that the items he has might fall into a legally gray area.

Brilliant

[QUOTE] [b]inu-liger wrote:[/b]
Vocal Harmony, you do realize that posts like yours making unfounded posts accusing JSS & co. of knowingly dealing on stolen goods without solid factual evidence constitutes libel and can seriously land you in court, or in jail if found guilty and convicted.
If Google can be successfully subpoenaed into handing over user info and IP addresses (and they have!), then there's nothing stopping QZ from being forced by law to do the same.
Govern yourself accordingly[/QUOTE]

Are you legal councel or owner of Queenzone? I thought not.

[QUOTE]

[b]Vocal harmony wrote: [/b] You may not be a collector brENsKi, but you certainly post like your one of them.

"you and your cronies". . . . . . Sorry do I know you?

JSS and his secret group are fools, for the reasons I've already listed.

Whether a professional artist has 100 million in the bank or nothing, it is still illegal to take and use whatever they have created without either paying for it or asking pemission. The fact that JSS and his coven are jumping about an ex member posting material that they have no legal right too is a joke.

As for you saying that what they are doing is increasing interest in a band with a 40 year history and almost 300 million sales is just plane utter stupidity.

By the way I have never bemoaned someone hearing a rare item played at a convention. . . . Blah blah blah
Maybe you're talking about your self or your cronies.

So JSS has spent all his spare time writing about the history of Queen releases, and for that reason I can't call him a fool. Well it's his time to do what he wants with, if he wants to portray him self as the last word on Queen releases and rarities that's up to him.

Well here's a carrot to dangle in front of JSS and his coven.
Mid 70's live album mixed down onto one inch reel to reel. Never got to the planning for release stage because EMI thought it was the wrong time for such a project. The 24 track is stored safely . JSS has a copy of it and the art work. . . . .
Does he hell, that goof and his secret society don't even know of it's existence, or where and when it was recorded. Funny, he's the expert in all of this but in reality he knows less than he thinks.

The fact remains he deals in stolen music and operates in some kind of illuminate wannabe organization.

He and his group are a thieving joke[/QUOTE]
I think the second last line of this post is not in order.  Your latest post has too many ifs and buts to constitute an acknowledgement that your iniital allegations are defective thinking.