Atheism

This might be lighting the touchpaper but surely none of the highly intelligent people who frequent this website actually believe in all that god crap?

Religious belief and intelligence are certainly not polar opposites.

Accepting something without evidence doesn't make someone stupid. It's when they try to convince others that their way is the only way that they're being stupid.

But to answer your question - I'd describe myself as an agnostic taking bits and pieces from Christianity, Buddhism and Bahai. And maybe a little bit of Jedi. Kind of like a cafeteria.

torture, hatred, war, destruction, ....what's NOT to believe?

I beleive in that god guy from Star Trek five. Good sfx for the time period.

Aside from that, the universe is neutral.

But the fact that we're probably the only animals on the planet able to ponder the meaning of life and where we came from is ... interesting.

we don't know about other animals - several species maybe "pondering their existence" in their own way....perhaps we're not as bright as we "big ourselves up to be"
and there are some that are more "aware of us, than we them"
also, evolution is another consideration....few thousand years time some super-breed of lemur my have evolved to have taken over mankind's role

There is some evidence that animals feel rudimentary emotions similar to humans. But as far as I'm aware, humanity is the only animal with the intellectual awareness to ponder existence. At least, we're the only ones to show evidence of that thus far. Of course maybe that's just a human conceit and there are other animals such as whales & dolphins wondering about the these things. I wouldn't bet on it though.

perhaps they're ALL just far more intelligent than us?

Perhaps they all speak Esperanto but hide it very well :) Or perhaps ... any number of implausible, unprovable scenarios. But, so far, no *evidence* of existential thought. That may be a product of evolution -- some random genetic attribute (in fact, I'm almost 100% certain that's what it is) but I still find it interesting and it does make me wonder if there's something else going on. Some bigger picture maybe. Not God, as we understand it, but something like evolution on a much huger scale, which goes beyond our tiny solar system. (and if that does sound too much like the plot to Prometheus, a terrible film, I do apologise!)

We're simply not geared to understand what Nothing means, because at no point in our life do we have an experience that can be said to be completely null. Except for maybe the odd M Knight Shamwow movie.

Kidding aside though, it's a lot easier for humans to contemplate what might be out there than it is to shoehorn our brains into grasping oblivion. The short version of the story is that we can't do it, as a matter of practicality. When you're dead, you can't be really said to be experiencing 'nothing' because you aren't there experiencing a damn thing. You don't wake up from it and subsequently say 'I guess that's what death is like, then!'. We simply don't get what 'nothing' is. So we make shit up. More palatable alternatives.

We don't like to think of it all this way - I sure as hell don't! - but I'm not banking on there being anything else when I die.

Atheism is just like religion, the same way that 1 is just like -1 in mathematics. Believing with all your heart that there is a god is very close to believing with all your heart that there is no god. The universe is inconceivably strange and complex. There is painfully little that is certain, and possibly even less that is impossible. Nobody ever knows "the Truth", and both the deeply religious and the rigid atheists are convinced that they do know the Truth, beyond a shadow of doubt. That means they are both wrong. We humans have no access to Truth, but we have something better - we can experience Wonder.

^ I am an agnostic, but could not have put it any better, Thomas.

I was raised as a Christian and have held onto many of those beliefs through my life so far. However, I'm not one of those hateful, judgmental Christians that are so much fun to poke fun at for their stupid comments and actions. I find those people to be quite embarrassing, albeit fun to poke fun at. None of this makes me any less intelligent than anyone else here.

:)

'but I'm not banking on there being anything else when I die.'

When I am asked what I think happens after we die I always answer a question with a question - 'What do you remember of before you were born?'

[QUOTE] [b]thomasquinn 32989 wrote:[/b]

Atheism is just like religion, the same way that 1 is just like -1 in mathematics. Believing with all your heart that there is a god is very close to believing with all your heart that there is no god. The universe is inconceivably strange and complex. There is painfully little that is certain, and possibly even less that is impossible. Nobody ever knows "the Truth", and both the deeply religious and the rigid atheists are convinced that they do know the Truth, beyond a shadow of doubt. That means they are both wrong. We humans have no access to Truth, but we have something better - we can experience Wonder.
[/QUOTE]

Very well put. Although I'd add that atheists do not necessarily believe there is no god with all their heart. There are different degrees of atheism, many of whom simply have a non-position. Theirs is not an assertion - it is an absence of an assertion. As the old saying goes, "calling atheism a religion is like calling abstinence a sex position."

Based on the available evidence, atheism can be seen as a logical route compared to any form of theism. Not a shred of evidence for theism exists. They are the ones making certain claims, so burden of proof is on their side. Atheists, on the other hand, do not need to provide evidence for their non-claims. Theirs is the default position until proven otherwise (or one could argue that the Deists have that one covered - creation without providence is technically correct). But such a thing is not possible, as the world of metaphysics is not a tangible one. Thus we are left with endless possibilities. The unknown will forever be the unknown and that is the very beauty of philosophy at its best.

That said, the scientific method is not the process of proving an assertion to be true - it is the process of eliminating options that can be proven to be untrue on the quest to narrow down to one last possibility. And it continues to build on itself as more options become available. So yes, possibilities we are not even aware of may exist, so that is why one may argue that it is foolish to reject the possible existence of a higher being because of a lack of evidence to the contrary.

I personally just don't care, since there are tangible problems that do undoubtedly exist here that we should be dealing with first before arguing over the characteristics of a possible invisible being or beings in the sky that will never be proven anyway. But I respect those who are on that search - as long as their way is their way and they don't demonize others for having another way.

I believe in God.
I'm a Catholic.
I'm a liberal.

Yeah, we exist. We just don't speak up.
Instead, the world thinks Catholics or other Christians are like Rick Perry, Rick Santorum, and we're all believe the Westboro Baptists.

I'm embarrassed to say that men like these have similar beliefs as me, although we might be from the same religion. Their views are way to right-wing.

If you read what Jesus said, He's a socialist; feed the poor, give your money to people, serve those who need to be served, heal the sick.

Plus, he's anti-war.

I know this question had nothing to do with political aspects of anything, however, anyone who's read some of my previous posts on politics will know I'm quick to throw that into anything :)

However, Religion and Politics intertwine. Not necessarily the entanglement of Church and State, but the way religion and politics are both associated with each other.

For example, most, not all, people will think like this:

He's a Catholic! He must be conservative. Is he against abortion? Capital punishment? Does he hate homosexuals? What about women's rights? Is his Priest a pedophile?

Catholics are labelled (at least as I know) as right-wing anti-abortion, Bible waving, pro-capital punishment, anti-gay, anti-women pedophiles.

Most of us aren't. That's right, you read correctly.

In fact, true right-wing Catholics (that term doesn't even make sense) are against capital punishment, for the same reason they're against abortion.

The way I see it, Jesus would never make abortion illegal. Honestly. I don't believe that. Regardless of him being the son of God or not, he was not right-wing. Think about it.

Feed the poor, tax the rich, give your possessions, don't hate, love your enemies. These are GOOD MORALS. People twist them into what they want to believe.

I believe that God is loving and forgiving. I don't believe that thing that if you have ONE SIN you can't get into Heaven, or if you aren't a Catholic Christian, you can't get into Heaven.

I believe that if you are truly a good person, with good intentions, without hate, you can enter His kingdom.

Now, if God doesn't exist, well, this was a massive waste of writing.

All in all, yes I believe in God.

Also, mooghead, atheists like you, just like extreme Catholics or extremists of any sort upset me, because you called what I believe in my heart of hearts to be true "all that god crap" and that "surely none of the highly intelligent people who frequent this website actually believe in all that god crap."

I may not be highly intelligent, but I do believe in, "all that god crap." And, at least for me, it isn't crap. It makes me happy that I can think that there is a meaning to all of this, and not just living for no reason but the reason for living.





Don't know if that whole post made that much sense, or followed, but it's 12:53 AM. I need to sleep.